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Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

santoshvk
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

I have been using Capture one (perpetual license) on Windows/Mac from 2018. During my usage, I upgraded the software only twice, and always kept the cost of ownership pretty low. Originally bought the Sony version in 2018, then migrated to full Pro version in 2019, post which my last upgrade was in 2021, which I continue to use till date.

I mainly shoot Landscapes, Travel, Portraits, and am pretty much comfortable with C1, although, have used LR+PS before 2018. All my libraries/catalog are currently in C1. I sometimes use the older version of Affinity Photo along with C1. On my iPad/iPhone I use Photomator/Darkroom, so no subscription there as well.

I just sold my Sony A7RIII after 5.5 years of use, and would mostly be getting the A7RV in the next couple of weeks, which means that the older version of C1 (2021) would not support it, and this is where I'd like some inputs on the Post Processing workflow to invest in next.

1. Capture One : I could continue with C1, though, if I purchase the current version, and the new one drops again in Nov'23. Also, the new licensing terms with no upgrades post purchase doesn't sound good.

2. LR + PS : The new features in LR do look good, plus it would work on iPad as well, though, I am not sure, if I want to go back to the subscription world, which I tried to ward off for so long.

3. ON1 : I have previously tried ON1 RAW in 2022 and did not like much. Not sure, if anything has changed in the latest offering.

4. Dxo Photo Lab : Seems fine based on my trial last year, though, not sure, if its sufficient to replace LR/C1.

Any suggestions to try something new, or any particular advantage to stick with any of the above ?

Jul 23, 2023 at 02:50 AM

RustyBug
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

I understand the "ward off" the subscription thing. But, my recommendation is two-fold.

1) Get the subscription (either Adobe or C1) and use it till Nov, when the new C1 drops.

Then, when the new C1 drops, get it.

Let's say you decide to let the subscription for PS / LR go, after you get the new C1.
Or, you decide you kinda like the new ACR and come to realize that the "ward off" is not an issue anymore ... simply because you like what Adobe has brought to the table since you last used it, and no longer find C1 to be your preferred choice.

I too picked up C1 and then "needed" to get the subscription due to the an equipment change ... "forcing me" into the subscription with Adobe. Part of the reason I got C1 was because I felt it was the better software. But, Adobe upped their game quite a bit (imo), and I never really went back to using my perpetual C1, thus I'm on the subscription with Adobe now. The workflow is better now, and the IQ and tools have fallen into place for me a bit, that weren't there when I went to C1. Adobe still may not be the same as C1, but the gap may not be what it was like back in 2018.

In the end ... my STRONGEST recommendation is USE WHAT YOU LIKE .

I mean, even if you get C1 now, and then the new one drops in November, and you "pay extra" for it, you still have your tool of choice. Or, you could do the C1 monthly subscription, until the new perpetual drops if you prefer the perpetual route. Sure, that "rental" $$$ is a bit pricier, but if you're concerned about losing the perpetual $$$ to get the latest version in Nov, the loss of rental $$$ (monthly subscription) is less. That, or just get the C1 subscription for the year, and then you've got a long window to watch for the new C1 to go on sale over the holidays and on into 2024.

Also, drop C1 a line and explain to them your dilemma with the new rig support. See what their recommendations might be, since it is so close to the new version coming out this fall.

Imo, if you're curious to what Adobe has brought to the table in the last 5+ years ... this would be a good case scenario to investigate that. If you have little interest in Adobe, then just stick with C1 and make your most "economical" play to get to your preferred end game.

If you really want to "squeeze the nickel", download the free trial of the current C1, use it for the month. Then, get the monthly subscription for a couple or three months, till the new C1 perpetual drops.

That, or you may find that a subscription route isn't so bad after all (C1 or Adobe), especially if you're feeling a bit "strapped" by your recent purchase.
Imo, don't chase the nickel, get the tool that works best for you. I mean, you did get a new A7RV, right.

GL
HTH

Jul 23, 2023 at 06:30 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

Capture 1. Is that no support immediately after purchase or after one year of subscription? I tried it a few times. Good software but did not work for me.

LR+PS. Lot's of changes with masking (LrC) and the new Denoise AI. Denoise AI still needs a bit work but pretty darn good for the first release. Some are not happy with the TIFF files - size particularly. Adobe is working on that. Summary at the end.

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/04/18/denoise-demystified

Also the $9.99 Photo Plan offers up to 5 personal websites via Portfolio. They are integrated with LrC. No sure if that interests you but if you price personal websites out you will see the value. Portfolio is not as sophisticated as Zenfolio but to great to share your work. I use it just for that.

DXO. They make a good product. Prime is very good and mature. Optics corrections are very good. DAM is as not good as others. FYI. It you buy PL6 today, PL7 will come out at the end of October and the upgrade not will be free. If you purchase it within 30 days of the new release you will get the upgrade. Another member suggested to start with the 30 day free trial first but you would have to time it just right. Sometimes they release end of October or beginning of November. BF sales soon after if you can wait that long.

Edited on Jul 24, 2023 at 06:12 AM · View previous versions

Jul 23, 2023 at 10:31 AM

Goodrich
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

I find that DXO in all auto settings normally gives such a pleasing landscape pic that I don’t get an opportunity to fiddle.

Lightroom and Photoshop have better masking etc if you need to adjust your picture.

Capture One can also give a good auto picture. It seems to have slightly better demosaicing than Adobe so the pictures can look cleaner. It seems very expensive compared to the others so I only occasionally use the free Sony version.

Jul 23, 2023 at 03:59 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

Regarding returning temporarily to the subscription route - read the fine print because when I finally gave up LR6 standalone last fall due to camera and computer hardware changes and had to go subscription, there were aspects of the 'monthly' subscription that didn't necessarily allow you to suddenly terminate the subscription without penalty.

Jul 24, 2023 at 02:10 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

Jul 24, 2023 at 06:11 AM

Ho1972
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

Zenon Char wrote:
As for long term yes you can use perpetual software for as long as long as long as your OS/hardware supports it.

With Windows, OS support is more or less a given but I was torpedoed by hardware support in C1 v20. I had no plans to ever upgrade it but, at some point, Nvidia apparently made some changes to its OpenCL structure that caused GPU support to fail. So I bit the bullet and bought the perpetual v23 during a half-off event.

Zenon Char wrote:
LR6 doesn't even come close to LrC 12's capabilities. I'm not trying to convince you to get it. Subscription will never fit for some. For the OP and others.

There's no question that LR12 has eclipsed LR6, and by a large margin. But I can live without the new functionality. The only reason I keep LR6 around is to refer occasionally to my cataloged images—to find all my shots taken with a specific lens, for example—and to continue to use presets I made which people around here seem to like.

Re DxO PhotoLab vs C1, the only time I use PL is when I need noise reduction or, to a lesser extent, lens correction. Then I process and export as a dng so I can finish the work in C1.

Jul 24, 2023 at 06:52 AM

ruthenium
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

I do "upgrade annually" but not "because Prime NR has an improvement every year."
I like supporting the continuing Photolab development, as I believe this develpment is a benefit to photography. Likewise, I am willing to invest into Topaz, to support their work, even if I rarely use Topaz nowadays. I appreciate the fact that these companies rely on my willingness to renew, rather than asking me to subscribe. The money paid might be the same both ways, but there's something nice about not being forced into a subscription.

Zenon Char wrote:
If you get a perpetual licence you pay that money up front. If you decide to stop using it after 6 months you don't get half your money back. I pay my subscription annually so it's basically the same thing. Paying monthly there is a penalty for dropping out before the year is up so it's really no different than paying for a full year. You pay for a year one way or another.

As for long term yes you can use perpetual software for as long as long as long as your OS/hardware supports it. Again there isn't much...Show more →

Jul 24, 2023 at 06:59 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

Jul 24, 2023 at 07:15 AM

jwpstl
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

You don’t have to continually purchase new cameras.
Zenon Char wrote:
Lol. I feel forced by perpetual companies to pay for an upgrade for new camera support.

Jul 24, 2023 at 07:42 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

rscheffler wrote:
Regarding returning temporarily to the subscription route - read the fine print because when I finally gave up LR6 standalone last fall due to camera and computer hardware changes and had to go subscription, there were aspects of the 'monthly' subscription that didn't necessarily allow you to suddenly terminate the subscription without penalty.

Zenon Char wrote:
If you get a perpetual licence you pay that money up front. If you decide to stop using it after 6 months you don't get half your money back. I pay my subscription annually so it's basically the same thing. Paying monthly there is a penalty for dropping out before the year is up so it's really no different than paying for a full year. You pay for a year one way or another.

As for long term yes you can use perpetual software for as long as long as long as your OS/hardware supports it. Again there isn't much...Show more →

I think you misunderstood. My post was just meant as a heads up in case someone thinks one can 'simply' do $10/month for as short/long as you like without strings attached. Not sure if Capture One is similar or not, hence 'read the fine print.'

As for subscription pros/cons - yes, there are pros/cons. Coming from LR6 standalone, I used it since my previous camera update in 2016 until about a year ago, so definitely got my money's worth out of it. I probably could have kept using it for a while longer on new Mac hardware via Rosetta, but due to the new camera gear I started using last fall, would have had to DNG convert everything before bringing into LR6 and wasn't keen to add the additional workflow steps and file storage requirements.

I am admittedly subscription reluctant, however, LRC's 'AI' masking capability, particularly for people, has proven itself extremely useful and time saving, especially for portrait/headshot projects where specific mask adjustments can be reliably copy/pasted across as many images as necessary, in a matter of seconds/minutes. The new Denoise feature also shows promise, as you mentioned, and I will definitely rely on it (I have already used it on a limited basis). I too opted to pay annually.

Jul 24, 2023 at 08:31 AM

Gregory Edge
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

I have thought about switching a few time from C1. I have not bought v.23 of C1. v.22 does what I need it to do. I will probably buy v.24 as I typically buy every other version.

I hate subscriptions. I prefer to buy it and choose when I pay again. It is a personal thing that pisses me off about everything today, monthly payments.

In terms of total cost for photography the software is not much more or even less than you paid in sales tax on your new camera.

Switching processing software is not fun. You have to learn the new software, customize what you can and your old stuff is still in C1 unless you decide to use something like Avalanche to move your catalog to a new software package.

My vote is to stay with C1. Either wait until the newest version drops or just buy what is out now. I would rather spend more time shooting and less time playing with software.

Jul 24, 2023 at 08:45 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

rscheffler wrote:
I think you misunderstood. My post was just meant as a heads up in case someone thinks one can 'simply' do $10/month for as short/long as you like without strings attached. Not sure if Capture One is similar or not, hence 'read the fine print.'

As for subscription pros/cons - yes, there are pros/cons. Coming from LR6 standalone, I used it since my previous camera update in 2016 until about a year ago, so definitely got my money's worth out of it. I probably could have kept using it for a while longer on new Mac hardware via Rosetta, but...Show more →

Thanks for the explanation.

Jul 24, 2023 at 08:57 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

I don't have to but like many others I have been doing so since 2005. It's part of the hobby. Should I stop?

jwpstl wrote:
You don’t have to continually purchase new cameras.

Jul 24, 2023 at 09:00 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

ruthenium wrote:
I do "upgrade annually" but not "because Prime NR has an improvement every year."
I like supporting the continuing Photolab development, as I believe this develpment is a benefit to photography. Likewise, I am willing to invest into Topaz, to support their work, even if I rarely use Topaz nowadays. I appreciate the fact that these companies rely on my willingness to renew, rather than asking me to subscribe. The money paid might be the same both ways, but there's something nice about not being forced into a subscription.

At one time I had 3 NR options. PureRaw, On1 NoNoise and Topaz DeNoise AI and the 3 stand alone apps. I was (still am) a big supporter of Topaz Photo AI. I go it when it first came out. It was a little rough around the edges but has come a long way. I suspect by October Topaz DeNoise, Sharpen and Gigapixel will no longer be available as stand alone purchases. Topaz will be a two app company. Photo and Video AI.

I was waiting until this fall to see if I'd get support for Topaz Photo AI for another year. It was heading that way but Adobe came out with Denoise AI which changed everything. Too many years of speeding money on various 3rd party apps and I just can't justify it to support a company. I got rid of everything off my OS except Topaz Sharpen AI. I have to say things have gotten a little boring in that department since Adobe's release.

Edited on Jul 24, 2023 at 11:06 AM · View previous versions

Jul 24, 2023 at 09:51 AM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

How fast do you need to go?

I use the camera maker's raw processor, DPP on Canon is really good. Also liked Silkypix on older m4/3. Sony might have one, to get you by for a bit if nothing else til the new version comes out.

I see posts on here and I'm not sure if the subscription model is going to work for me, might be really annoying. Not that mine is perfect, but I like the install and forget about it of using free non subscription . Besides I'm not sure I'd like the colors on the paid ones

Jul 24, 2023 at 10:05 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

Jul 24, 2023 at 11:08 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

AmbientMike wrote:
How fast do you need to go?

I use the camera maker's raw processor, DPP on Canon is really good. Also liked Silkypix on older m4/3. Sony might have one, to get you by for a bit if nothing else til the new version comes out.

I see posts on here and I'm not sure if the subscription model is going to work for me, might be really annoying. Not that mine is perfect, but I like the install and forget about it of using free non subscription . Besides I'm not sure I'd like the colors on the paid ones

It really depends on each person's needs and amount they process. I used DPP until 2010 when I added another system to the mix, but that one came with a free Lightroom license and I used LR3 and LR4 this way. I liked DPP. Color was very good, files were sharp. But the workflow was not as efficient as LR and one couldn't do any local edits to images - it would have to go to Photoshop (I kept a machine running old enough OS to maintain Photoshop CS2, for which Adobe stopped enforcing licensing compliance), or similar, for such adjustment, which added more steps to the process. LR won out for me because it could do the vast majority of what I needed, other than major copy/paste/cloning, all in one app. I don't like subscription, but at least the past year that I've been on it with LR, I have felt I got decent feature improvements from it that allowed me to better process large quantities of images more efficiently. What I would love to see next is some sort of AI image culling feature (with good operator oversight over what is included vs. removed).

Jul 24, 2023 at 02:33 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

rscheffler wrote:
It really depends on each person's needs and amount they process. I used DPP until 2010 when I added another system to the mix, but that one came with a free Lightroom license and I used LR3 and LR4 this way. I liked DPP. Color was very good, files were sharp. But the workflow was not as efficient as LR and one couldn't do any local edits to images - it would have to go to Photoshop (I kept a machine running old enough OS to maintain Photoshop CS2, for which Adobe stopped enforcing licensing compliance), or similar, for such...Show more →

What I really had a problem with is opening a file in one of the other raw processors I tried, it looked bad after auto corrections and you had to get it back. Took forever it seemed vs any DPP issues and very aggravating. The 1st photo I tried in one popular paid program took 20 minutes to get the colors and highlights not as good as 1-2 min in DPP. It got easier after using it more, but I just decided to use DPP. Some images probably looked better but I don't think I ever got colors and highlights right on the 1st image I tried

Probably not a deal breaker but irritating that some of these companies go in and mess with stuff. I'm not sure how Microsoft edge got on the computer. And my voicemail got screwed up by the phone carrier and I don't think I clicked and agreed to anything. One example Adobe apparently removed jpeg option for saving, at one point, according to one thread, at least you had to find it. I might lose my mind or something if I go to save a photo and jpeg isn't there.

Jul 24, 2023 at 09:33 PM

santoshvk
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Dilemma in the Post processing workflow (C1, LR, Dxo)

Would like to thank everyone for their inputs.
Once I receive the new camera, will install trial of C1 and LR, and try out the respective workflow.

Incase, I choose C1, will take a monthly subscription till the new version is launched, and move to perpetual license in Nov'23. Else, will choose LR+PS subscription.

Jul 24, 2023 at 11:18 PM

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