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DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Cano...

Badger
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

I am currently using Digital Photo Professional (DPP) from Canon to process my images. I don’t do a lot of processing, mostly just cropping and some brightness, color and contrast adjustments. I have used the DPP Digital Lens Optimiser on some old photos and it seems to work pretty well. DLO is applied automatically to new images coming from my R3 and RF100 – 500L lens. Feels like Canon has improved DLO.

DXO PureRAW has come to my attention. In a trial there was a lot of benefit for older photos, particularly those from my 5D Mk IV using a 70-200L and extender, less so for newer files. The downside is that the output of DXO PureRAW is either a JPG or a DNG file. So, if I run DXO first and then try to use DPP I lose some functionality because the output is no longer a RAW file and some meta data seems to be not available. I guess this is to be expected since DXO seems tightly linked to Adobe software, which I don’t (and don’t want to) use.

The sequence would seem to be make any changes in DPP and then run DXO to remove the noise.

So, some questions:
- Is anyone using DXO PureRAW for onward processing in DPP? Or, anything other than Adobe? How did it go?
- Has anyone directly compared the output from DXO PureRAW against DPP with DLO turned on. What are your impressions? Do they match mine above?
- Does DXO recognise any changes in a saved RAW file from DPP (for example, a crop or a change in brightness or contrast) before processing?

Thanks in advance for any input

Jul 15, 2023 at 04:12 AM

The Rat
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

No experience with PureRAW here, but if you only do basic processing in DPP, why not try a free trial of DxO Photolab and see how it strikes you? It has the PureRAW functionality built in, but also has processing options. Would make it a one stop processing shop for you.

(Been using Photolab here for several years and I really like it.)

Jul 15, 2023 at 05:32 AM

Blueshound
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Download the DXO trials, and work with both a bit. PL will allow you continuous adjustment to the application of sharpening, with PR3 you can choose between different degrees of sharpening, but it's not as nuanced.

The denoise function works very well, but you have to confirm whether either gives you enough control.

Brian

Jul 15, 2023 at 09:00 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

DPP won't recognize DNG's or TIFF's and you stated Jpegs are limiting. One complaint from DXO users about PureRaw. Not enough control. With PureRaw 3 (you can't buy versions 1 and 2 anymore) they added some sharpening options but users would still like to see a noise removal control slider. As Brian pointed it out Photo Lab has better control but it is a little pricey just for noise removal.

Canon is pretty limiting to their format so not easy to use with other software. I can't see DXO as a good fit. One thing you can try is Topaz Photo AI which is pretty expensive. After editing in DPP you output a TIFF.

Topaz also has the stand alone apps. DeNoise and Sharpen AI. However I predict they will no longer be for sale after this fall and support will end. Only Topaz Photo AI will be for sale. Not that it matters much. They are good mature products and since you can open as a TIFF, RAW support is not an issue. If you buy one of those now you will be able to download it from Topaz basically forever. Just no options for update support.

I'm not suggesting you use Adobe because you specified that. This is just and example. Since Adobe Denoise AI came out I removed PureRaw, Topaz Photo AI, Denoise AI and Gigapixel off my system. I kept Topaz Sharpen AI and expect to use it for many years by sending TIFF's to it. I'll use it until something changes one day.

Jul 15, 2023 at 09:51 AM

Blueshound
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

To follow up on what Zenon Char said, I still use and very much like Topaz Denoise AI and Sharpen AI. For me they fit well into a layered workflow in PS, which I know doesn't interest you. However they are very effective stand alone apps as well.

I use Topaz Sharpen AI almost exclusively in favor over Photo AI, particularly now as Photo AI won't get through an image without crashing on me! No one else seems to have this issue though. (Yes, I have uninstalled / reinstalled it.) But I don't feel any need for it at the moment, so not worth spending much time on.

So perhaps you should try a trial of the Topaz apps for yourself? Re: DXO, if I had it to do again, I would have lashed out the extra cost for PL, with it's better controls. (Like ZC, I'm also using the Adobe Denoise AI option, but intermittently with DXO.)

Brian

Jul 15, 2023 at 11:30 AM

EB-1
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

I have DXO PL and it does not integrate with DPP. I use DPP for Canon RAW files and DXO for S*ny and Nikon RAW files.

EBH

Jul 15, 2023 at 12:42 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Blueshound wrote:
To follow up on what Zenon Char said, I still use and very much like Topaz Denoise AI and Sharpen AI. For me they fit well into a layered workflow in PS, which I know doesn't interest you. However they are very effective stand alone apps as well.

I use Topaz Sharpen AI almost exclusively in favor over Photo AI, particularly now as Photo AI won't get through an image without crashing on me! No one else seems to have this issue though. (Yes, I have uninstalled / reinstalled it.) But I don't feel any need for it at the moment,...Show more →

I also used Photo AI exclusively before Adobe Denoise AI.

Jul 15, 2023 at 04:28 PM

Sashi
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

I have completely switched over from PSCS to DxO PhotoLab. As the OP posted, the difference I could see in my previous images was night and day. I used to be fully PSCS workflow-wise and am now completely DxO-centric. My use of DPP was mostly experimentation to see how well Canon performed in manipulating images taken with my Pentax M42 lenses.

Jul 15, 2023 at 06:18 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Just a heads up if anyone buys PhotoLab 6. PL7 will come out at the end of October and you won't get the upgrade. If you buy PL within 30 days of the annual upgrade you will get it. Buying PL in September is a really and idea. Also it does go on sale during black Friday.

PureRaw's cycle is March to March.

Jul 16, 2023 at 12:49 PM

Badger
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Some great input here, many thanks everyone.

To what extent do you believe it is important to be able to trace to the original RAW file (or at least, that any image manipulation would be reversible to get to the original - one of the big reasons why I like DPP)? This came home to me in a big way when I was running some CR2 files through DXO PureRAW. I sort my images and delete quite a lot, but I always file the RAW version of any shot I keep, for this reason. I also try to keep a link between the RAW file and subsequent JPGs for presentation.

DPP also allows me to see what changes I made to an image at a point in time. If I have a different take at some point in the future, I can learn from the old settings and perhaps think differently on new images. One reason why I find DXO PureRAW a problem as I am not sure what it is doing and therefore whether extracting more from the RAW file, sharpening, contrast or something else is making the difference.

The complexity of going "cross platforms" is not something I would welcome, but maybe a necessary evil to continue to improve my results.

Again, appreciate the debate/input

Jul 17, 2023 at 04:53 AM

Chris Dees
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Zenon Char wrote:
Just a heads up if anyone buys PhotoLab 6. PL7 will come out at the end of October and you won't get the upgrade. If you buy PL within 30 days of the annual upgrade you will get it. Buying PL in September is a really and idea. Also it does go on sale during black Friday.

PureRaw's cycle is March to March.

You can get the 39 day trial as well. Gives you 2 months.

Jul 17, 2023 at 06:09 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Chris Dees wrote:
You can get the 39 day trial as well. Gives you 2 months.

39 days or is that 30? That would work. You'd have to time it properly. Look up the average release date and maybe shave off a week to be sure. One I learned about DXO. They are not forgiving.

Jul 17, 2023 at 08:48 AM

Chris Dees
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Zenon Char wrote:
39 days or is that 30? That would work. You'd have to time it properly. Look up the average release date and maybe shave off a week to be sure. One I learned about DXO. They are not forgiving.

Typo, yes. 30 days trial. 😬

Jul 17, 2023 at 08:54 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Chris Dees wrote:
Typo, yes. 30 days trial. 😬

They just had to put the 9 beside the 0

Jul 17, 2023 at 08:56 AM

Badger
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Zenon Char wrote:
DPP won't recognize DNG's or TIFF's and you stated Jpegs are limiting. One complaint from DXO users about PureRaw. Not enough control. With PureRaw 3 (you can't buy versions 1 and 2 anymore) they added some sharpening options but users would still like to see a noise removal control slider. As Brian pointed it out Photo Lab has better control but it is a little pricey just for noise removal.

Canon is pretty limiting to their format so not easy to use with other software. I can't see DXO as a good fit. One thing you can try is...Show more →

---------------------------------------------

Blueshound wrote:
To follow up on what Zenon Char said, I still use and very much like Topaz Denoise AI and Sharpen AI. For me they fit well into a layered workflow in PS, which I know doesn't interest you. However they are very effective stand alone apps as well.

I use Topaz Sharpen AI almost exclusively in favor over Photo AI, particularly now as Photo AI won't get through an image without crashing on me! No one else seems to have this issue though. (Yes, I have uninstalled / reinstalled it.) But I don't feel any need for it at the moment,...Show more →

On rereading these, I am slightly lost on where the noise reduction takes place in the processes you are using. I have been expecting to run an image through the denoise software (whichever one) and then use the resultant file as input into my image manipulation software - in this case DPP. The reason why I posed the question on DXO PureRAW was that the output file formats (DNG and JPG) don't "play nice" with DPP, so I need to make the adjustments in DPP and then run through PureRAW - which I am not sure is possible (and I have not had time to test yet).

I can understand why a Topaz denoise product would be fine with Topaz Photo AI and PureRAW would be fine with Photo Lab, but will either of them retain the information that is lost by PureRAW through using JPG and therefore be a good input to DPP? I get they can provide files as inputs into Adobe products.

What am I missing? Is the constraint that I am using DPP and therefore, I am stuck with losing information and therefore need to bite the bullet and use a different processing stack?

Jul 26, 2023 at 07:38 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Badger wrote:
---------------------------------------------

On rereading these, I am slightly lost on where the noise reduction takes place in the processes you are using. I have been expecting to run an image through the denoise software (whichever one) and then use the resultant file as input into my image manipulation software - in this case DPP. The reason why I posed the question on DXO PureRAW was that the output file formats (DNG and JPG) don't "play nice" with DPP, so I need to make the adjustments in DPP and then run through PureRAW - which I am not sure is possible (and I...Show more →

You can't use 3rd party NR apps with DPP. When you are finished editing you need to export as a TIFF (preferably) and then open it with your preferred NR app, if it opens TIFF's. While in your 3rd party app there is no way to send the de-noised file back to DPP.

PureRaw only opens RAW files and de-noises at the beginning of the process. This cannot be done at all via DPP.

Jul 26, 2023 at 09:26 AM

IndyFab
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Workflows are ever evolving with the more you learn, plus trial and error and improved editing software.

Here might be a good example to use manufactures software to initially process the raw file coming from camera

Jul 26, 2023 at 10:15 AM

Badger
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Zenon Char wrote:
You can't use 3rd party NR apps with DPP. When you are finished editing you need to export as a TIFF (preferably) and then open it with your preferred NR app, if it opens TIFF's. While in your 3rd party app there is no way to send the de-noised file back to DPP.

PureRaw only opens RAW files and de-noises at the beginning of the process. This cannot be done at all via DPP.

Thanks. This feels really odd because it feels like running the original through a denoise program first should give the best possible starting point and may even influence what other edits I may wish to make

At least the constraints are now clearer. What seems to matter now is whether the denoise in DPP is better than third party denoise programs - which the video above (thanks @IndyFab) seems to indicate it should be given Canon has the inside info on sensor and processor

Do you recommend an 8 or 16 bit TIFF? With or without EXIF?

Jul 28, 2023 at 08:01 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Badger wrote:
Thanks. This feels really odd because it feels like running the original through a denoise program first should give the best possible starting point and may even influence what other edits I may wish to make

At least the constraints are now clearer. What seems to matter now is whether the denoise in DPP is better than third party denoise programs - which the video above (thanks @IndyFab@) seems to indicate it should be given Canon has the inside info on sensor and processor

Do you recommend an 8 or 16 bit TIFF? With or without EXIF?

I always work with 16 bit. EXIF if you post files and want to show the settings.

Jul 28, 2023 at 08:17 AM

IndyFab
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · DXO PureRAW in workflow that does not include Adobe – specifically, Canon DPP

Badger wrote:
Thanks. This feels really odd because it feels like running the original through a denoise program first should give the best possible starting point and may even influence what other edits I may wish to make

At least the constraints are now clearer. What seems to matter now is whether the denoise in DPP is better than third party denoise programs - which the video above (thanks @IndyFab@) seems to indicate it should be given Canon has the inside info on sensor and processor

Do you recommend an 8 or 16 bit TIFF? With or without EXIF?

Always 16bit

I did a A/B test yesterday using DPP first then Topaz Photo AI, then using Topaz Photo AI first, then into LR for the basic adjustments I can say Topaz Photo AI first yielded far better results ... Used Raw File

Jul 28, 2023 at 08:36 AM

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