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2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

BPsmith511
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p.15 #1 · p.15 #1 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Ripolini wrote:
The first thorough review of Z 70-180/2.8 I am aware of is from CameraLabs:
https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-z-70-180mm-f2-8-review/
They compared the lens to the E-mount version, and tested it with Z TCs.
Their results are not so encouraging ...
Did they test a lemon?

Even though it wasn't written by Gordon I still read every review in his voice

Aug 11, 2023 at 11:07 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.15 #2 · p.15 #2 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Yeah, it would seem likely that it's a subpar copy. However, in my opinion even the worst copy should be considered to reflect on the quality of the product. Not all shops have a liberal return policy. I would wait for a few more reviews before making judgments on the lens.

Nikon has a good reputation for the lenses in the Z lineup, it would be unfortunate if they let it slip just as they are starting to be successful again.

Jman13 wrote:
I sure hope it’s just a bad copy. Would be really weird if the Nikon version was appreciably worse than the Tamron. If Gordon had tested on a Z7 II I might chalk it up to the sensor, as I have noticed the Z7 II needs more sharpening than my previous Canon or Sony bodies, but the Z8 (which Gordon used) seems to be as sharp out of the gate in RAW as competitors.

Aug 12, 2023 at 03:54 AM

JustShootMe
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p.15 #3 · p.15 #3 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Aug 14, 2023 at 08:04 AM

Jman13
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p.15 #4 · p.15 #4 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

I'm quite excited for my 180-600mm to come in. It seems to be a very good lens.

Aug 14, 2023 at 08:38 AM

urbanwild
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p.15 #5 · p.15 #5 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

JustShootMe wrote:

Thanks for sharing. Other benefits aside, it will be interesting to see how the sharpness and AF speed compares to the 200-500. This video opens up a little speculation that it's not super sharp at 600mm. Will be good to see the post-production comparisons.

Aug 15, 2023 at 12:02 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.15 #6 · p.15 #6 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Based on the above-linked video, it is a little soft at 600mm f/6.3 but it does sharpen up at f/8. The Canon 100-500 and Sony 200-600 are said to be a little sharper at their maximum focal lengths and apertures, but the Nikon maintains focal length better than the Sony when focused at 5m distance, and other advantages of the Nikkor include much better image stabilization (see 30:22 in the video) realized in normal mode, it is also slightly lighter. The focus recall feature was shown to be useful e.g. when the bird returns to a particular branch the lens can quickly be made to return to the correct focus. Paton felt he wasn't getting quite as many focus keepers as he would have expected but lower familiarity with the Nikon's AF system and settings may have been a factor. But overall he said the Nikkor is "extremely competitive."

Ricci Chera did compare the 180-600 with Nikon 200-500 in a video. His impression was that the new lens was sharper at 600mm than the 200-500 at 500mm.

I think some tests using production copies are needed and in this price class and lens type, some sample variability can be expected. However, if the production copies of the lens are as described; ie. sharp at 600mm f/8 then as long as users keep that in mind it can be used successfully and will probably be very popular. Thinking about bird photography, if taking either individual bird close-ups or images of several birds, f/8 may be needed for depth of field anyway. For action shots and/or in dim environments, f/8 may be limiting (but so is f/6.3). For aviation shots I think there is usually plenty of light in the skies and so f/8 may be OK to work with for daylight hours.

I was initially a bit sceptical about the 180-600 - the tripod collar ring seems narrow for such a long focal length and I would be using it on a tripod most of the time. However, I can't quite ignore the enthusiasm expressed in Paton's video and it seems a legitimately good lens.

I think it is good that Nikon let out copies of the lens to reviewers who are not ambassadors so as to give a fair assessment with pros and cons. This avoids people buying the lens with the wrong expectations.

Aug 15, 2023 at 01:24 AM

armd
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p.15 #7 · p.15 #7 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

ilkka_nissila wrote:
Based on the above-linked video, it is a little soft at 600mm f/6.3 but it does sharpen up at f/8. The Canon 100-500 and Sony 200-600 are said to be a little sharper at their maximum focal lengths and apertures, but the Nikon maintains focal length better than the Sony when focused at 5m distance, and other advantages of the Nikkor include much better image stabilization (see 30:22 in the video) realized in normal mode, it is also slightly lighter. The focus recall feature was shown to be useful e.g. when the bird returns to a particular branch the lens...Show more →

It would be a big disappointment if the lens is not sharp wide open.

Ricci Chera did compare the 180-600 with Nikon 200-500 in a video. His impression was that the new lens was sharper at 600mm than the 200-500 at 500mm.

That would be favorable.

I think some tests using production copies are needed and in this price class and lens type, some sample variability can be expected. However, if the production copies of the lens are as described; ie. sharp at 600mm f/8 then as long as users keep that in mind it can be used successfully and will probably be very popular. Thinking about bird photography, if taking either individual bird close-ups or images of several birds, f/8 may be needed for depth of field anyway. For action shots and/or in dim environments, f/8 may be limiting (but so is f/6.3). For aviation shots...Show more →

I am hoping that this was a pre=production lens and the final version is better in terms of sharpness. This lens is not designed for "close-ups" and for birding, having to shoot at f/8 leaves a lot to be desired for many reasons.

I was initially a bit sceptical about the 180-600 - the tripod collar ring seems narrow for such a long focal length and I would be using it on a tripod most of the time. However, I can't quite ignore the enthusiasm expressed in Paton's video and it seems a legitimately good lens.

Quite the contrary. The idea is to have a lighter weight longer FL lens which can be handheld in the field. When I shot Sony, the 200-600 was never on a tripod. The same for my 100-500. Yes, hopefully it is a good lens.

I think it is good that Nikon let out copies of the lens to reviewers who are not ambassadors so as to give a fair assessment with pros and cons. This avoids people buying the lens with the wrong expectations.

It's part of a marketing strategy to maximize interest and market share.

Aug 15, 2023 at 05:15 AM

Buckeye2604
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p.15 #8 · p.15 #8 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Aug 15, 2023 at 05:38 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.15 #9 · p.15 #9 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

armd wrote:
It would be a big disappointment if the lens is not sharp wide open.

I think it would be shocking if a 2k€ lens can match the sharpness of a (say) 18k€ lens at 600mm, so no, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a little soft wide open, some image quality compromises are expected for this price.

The idea is to have a lighter weight longer FL lens which can be handheld in the field. When I shot Sony, the 200-600 was never on a tripod. The same for my 100-500.

I don't think the use cases for this lens can be simplified to hand-held only. The internal zooming makes the lens bigger than it would otherwise need to be, and thus is a disadvantage for handling and transportation (requiring a much larger bag than e.g. the 100-500 Canon or 100-400 Nikon which get shorter when zoomed to the shortest focal length). The main advantage of internal zooming is that the lens doesn't change balance during zooming and thus when used on a tripod the balance on a gimbal or fluid head does not need to be adjusted after every time the lens is zoomed like it does with, e.g., the Nikon 200-500. Thus the tripod use case is very much part of the motivation for making an internal zoom design.

For me most of the use cases would involve a lot of waiting and I would almost always use a tripod with this lens. However, if the tripod collar is not satisfactory then it excludes the lens from consideration for me. Then I would just get a 400/4.5 for long-lens needs. That lens is short enough that I would get some hand-held use from it. For quick grab shots I suppose hand-held use of a 180-600 is fine, but my experience is that it is by waiting patiently that one gets the best opportunities.

It's part of a marketing strategy to maximize interest and market share.

Yes, but it also helps avoid people purchasing the incorrect lens for their needs. For example, if someone wants to shoot mainly wide open and is very picky about sharpness wide open at 600mm, then they'll know to get another lens.

Aug 15, 2023 at 06:55 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.15 #10 · p.15 #10 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Buckeye2604 wrote:
Resizing the subject in the 180-600 image to the 200-600 size (or vice versa) results in similar sharpness

This may be the case, interesting that the video didn't show such a comparison.

Aug 15, 2023 at 06:56 AM

sum1sgrampa
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p.15 #11 · p.15 #11 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

While the sharpness comparison was not what I was hoping for, I don't think that's going to be a factor in real world applications. And I think you're right, the close distance may have skewed that a bit. And I'm not ready to draw any conclusions one one video with a pre production model. What jumped out to me was the difference in the backgrounds. I thought the Nikon was much more pleasing. I wasn't expecting to see that big of a difference. The other thing that I thought was interesting was his take on the VR. I've been shooting my 400 4.5 exclusively in "sport" mode, handheld, on the Z9. I recently replied in another thread that I had returned from 2 days at a Peregrine site, first time using the 400, and I was a bit underwhelmed with the results. I found many more oof images than I was expecting. Not grossly miss-focused, just a bit off. More so than what I was getting with the Z9 and my Sigma 150-600 S at the same site. Next time out I'll be trying "normal" mode. Most of you may already be aware of this

Aug 15, 2023 at 07:02 AM

OwlsEyes
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p.15 #12 · p.15 #12 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

It amazes me how quick people are to criticize something that so few have actually used. To quibble about slight differences in sharpness between lens X and lens Y just an exercise in futility.
First, the 180-600 is about $1700 US, significantly less expensive than Canon's offering and and $300 less than Sony's. Second, buying a lens like this is all about recognizing the compromises in photography. If one wants the "best" Nikon tele-zoom, spend $6000 (used) to $12000 new and buy the 180-400 w/ built in converter. If, on the other hand, one wants a relatively light, inexpensive, and flexible tele-zoom as a learning tool or compliment to a wider system, then the Z180-600 offers a real bang for your buck. Finally (3rd)... small differences in sharpness at 600mm f6.3 are easily mitigated with software and likely to go unnoticed unless you are looking at images at 200%.
For a number of years I had my eye on the 180-400 w/ convert... if the 180-600 has 90% of the sharpness and performance of the 180-600, I'm good!

bruce

Aug 15, 2023 at 07:17 AM

sum1sgrampa
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p.15 #13 · p.15 #13 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

I'm just happy that I can click on this thread and find people back to talking about the new lens instead of lugs falling off the Z8

Aug 15, 2023 at 07:58 AM

saaketham
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p.15 #14 · p.15 #14 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Does the 180-600 have lugs

Aug 15, 2023 at 08:25 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.15 #15 · p.15 #15 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

If you mean for attaching straps, the tripod collar seems to have them.

saaketham wrote:
Does the 180-600 have lugs

Aug 15, 2023 at 08:34 AM

tabishshaikh
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p.15 #16 · p.15 #16 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Looks like a good lens to me, the bokeh is much better than Canon and Sony and you have the stabilizing advantage which allows one to shoot at f8 if needed. Glad it's an internal zoom. This one surely looks like a winner over the Sony on multiple fronts. Looking forward to a more comprehensive review with a production model.

Aug 15, 2023 at 09:41 AM

JustShootMe
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p.15 #17 · p.15 #17 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

to me ...

Better VR / Actually reaching 600mm > sharper at max focal length wide open

I think it's a winner regardless.

Aug 15, 2023 at 09:56 AM

armd
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p.15 #18 · p.15 #18 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

ilkka_nissila wrote:
I think it would be shocking if a 2k€ lens can match the sharpness of a (say) 18k€ lens at 600mm, so no, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a little soft wide open, some image quality compromises are expected for this price.

No one would think that it would rival an f/4 lens however it should be as sharp wide open as the comparable Sony and Canon lenses.

For me most of the use cases would involve a lot of waiting and I would almost always use a tripod with this lens. However, if the tripod collar is not satisfactory then it excludes the lens from consideration for me. Then I would just get a 400/4.5 for long-lens needs. That lens is short enough that I would get some hand-held use from it. For quick grab shots I suppose hand-held use of a 180-600 is fine, but my experience is that it is by waiting patiently that one gets the best opportunities.

Many people who are considering this lens do so with the intent of having something lighter and more portable than a big white or big black. If you are considering the lens for a mono/tripod. then adding an arca swiss plate or waiting for a 3rd party tripod collar with one built in would be reasonable options.

Aug 15, 2023 at 10:15 AM

bs kite
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p.15 #19 · p.15 #19 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

NR says that Nikon has started shipping the 180-600

Aug 30, 2023 at 04:40 PM

AJay
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p.15 #20 · p.15 #20 · 2 new Z lenses tonight ... 180-600 and 70-180

Has anyone here in the states gotten a notice regarding the shipping of the 180-600? I guess it's starting to be shipped in other parts of the world, but I haven't seen anything yet from here in the states.

Aug 30, 2023 at 04:50 PM

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