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Cnyphotoguy
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Soccer C&C

I've spent the last few years trying to keep my sideline silent during my kid's games, and photography was the most effective way to do that...which nicely coincided with my return to photography after many years hiatus. Well, with a bit more disposable income for gear I've unintendedly found myself the classic 'Dad-with-a-camera'. I mentioned to the head coach I was interested in attending games to shoot for my own practice more of the club games and as one might imagine showing up with some pro level gear, I've been tapped to shoot games I can make for their UPSL/NPSL league games. The club had a photographer for a few years, but is now a few states away setup as a full-time pro photog, from what I can tell they never indented to refill the position...so I'm a bit less conscious that I'm undercutting real pros.

So what am I after, I'm a lurker typically and don't go out of my way to promote or show off my photos but I was reading the recent thread about the decline of the forum activity. So here goes, give me your thoughts...what am I missing? I've got some ideas, and am generally happy with the shots I capture, but know I struggle to get key moments in the game still - sometimes I'm focused on another part of the field, bad technique, out of position (or a player ends up between me and the action). The coach/players have been really happy with the photos, and had some published along side game recaps on the national league website, but I'm still interested in improvement opportunities. Anything game including framing, post processing, etc.

Galleries of the games I've shot this year (and some older stuff) - https://photos.rotblat.com/Soccer

Gear: Canon R7, R6m2, 24-70II 2.8, 70-200III 2.8, 100-400II, 300II 2.8

Jun 19, 2023 at 01:54 PM

graycat
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Soccer C&C

Very nice. I started the same way many years ago. Try getting your shutter speed higher. I prefer to have a little more noise to facilitate a higher shutter speed.

Jun 19, 2023 at 03:31 PM

pgcaldito
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Soccer C&C

I'm just an enthusiastic amateur so take this for what it's worth. 1 has nice action but could be cropped tighter for more impact and to reduce the distracting background.

Nets make for awful, distracting backgrounds, even worse when there are fences and goalposts too. That's why I prefer shooting from the end line or on the sideline a little down from the corner, rather than closer to midfield.

6 and 7 also have decent action. I don't think they were shot at f/2.8, though, which you may want to try to blur the backgrounds more and help make the focus of the image pop more. 6 also could be cropped to eliminate the guy on the left.

Personally, I'd toss 10 unless the moment is huge for some reason or someone. No faces. At minimum, I'd crop to eliminate the half body on the right.

Jun 20, 2023 at 10:05 AM

Cnyphotoguy
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Soccer C&C

graycat wrote:
Very nice. I started the same way many years ago. Try getting your shutter speed higher. I prefer to have a little more noise to facilitate a higher shutter speed.

Thanks, I typically shoot wide open, ~1/1000 and auto ISO. I'll play around with higher shutter speeds, any recommendations for target speed?
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pgcaldito wrote:
I'm just an enthusiastic amateur so take this for what it's worth. 1 has nice action but could be cropped tighter for more impact and to reduce the distracting background.

Nets make for awful, distracting backgrounds, even worse when there are fences and goalposts too. That's why I prefer shooting from the end line or on the sideline a little down from the corner, rather than closer to midfield.

6 and 7 also have decent action. I don't think they were shot at f/2.8, though, which you may want to try to blur the backgrounds more and help make the focus of...Show more →

Thanks, I'll try from the ends of the field. Usually get frustrated that half the game is too far away and felt lucky to be shifting up/down the side of the field. I do shoot wide open, but the 100-400II just doesn't offer the same capabilities but its really sharp/fast and has the focal length. I agree with #10, but it was a pivotal goal in the game so was not possible to cut the sequence completely. The additional cropping I'll take note of.

Jun 20, 2023 at 07:56 PM

graycat
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Soccer C&C

My own taste is for the action to be sharply frozen. So set your shutter at whatever it takes to do that. I shoot at 1/2500 and up. I only go lower as the light fails. Better to have a sharp image with noise than a soft image without noise. Also, I use the 100-400II. It is a pain to use at times because of the variable aperture situation. It is a trade-off for sure. I would prefer a fixed 400 f/2.8. It is hard to justify since I put so little effort into sales. Soft, creamy image backgrounds are expensive.

Jun 20, 2023 at 10:47 PM

jphilauren7
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Soccer C&C

Higher shutter speed the better, if added noise so be it. You would not believe the difference in sharpness from even 1/1000 to 1/2500 or higher

Jun 21, 2023 at 12:38 PM

schlotz
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Soccer C&C

A couple of things first.
- number your photos so people providing C&C can easily reference them and others can follow as well.
- make sure what you post contains the EXIF data, what ever process you used stripped it.

C&C: you always want ball, faces and PEAK action. A number of these appear to have been shot while standing up. Make a habit of always shooting from a low perspective, i.e. ON YOUR BUTT.

Best to have action coming at you, so find a position 8-10 feet back off the end line when the 18 yard box intersects. There are significantly more keepers generated from this position vs from the sideline. If you are shooting for a team they usually want offense action and celebrations but it's important to spend some time covering personnel in the mid field, defenders & goalie. Pick a certain amount of time of the match to do this and park yourself half way between the top of the box and mid field. Afterwards return to the end line position. The day time shots need to have been at a higher shutter to lower the light. IMO they're over exposed. Not sure about the post processing but some appear a bit over cooked. Looking at the gear, I would put a 1.4tc on the 300 until the low light pushes the ISO to above 6400 and use it as the main rig with the 100-400 or 70-200 as the second rig. Key is to learn when to put down the longer reach rig during the action. In regards to shutter speed, with good light it's a minimum of 1/1600 or higher, with poorly lit fields at night I try to maintain 1/1250 since my gear can handle higher ISOs. There is one field where I'm forced to 1/1000. I make it point with any occasional afternoon match to make sure I've got the shutter high enough to not over expose.

Spend some time reviewing other postings to see what works and why.

#1 crop it tighter, way too much negative space. Not that sharp. Need to see the exif.
#2 past peak action, frame before maybe better?
#3 peak action is the goalie, crop it down, a bit over exposed looking at the goalie jersey.
#4 not that sharp, players on the right and left add nothing, again I wish I could see the exif.
#5 not bad, were you standing up? If so, sit on your butt.
#6 good peak action. Would have definitely been better from a lower angle.
#7 would be better if action was in center or slightly to the left side of the frame.
#8 nope, ball too far away.
#9 the goalie is out of focus (OOF), toss it out
#10 maybe but too much negative space, with more cropping I'd call this a filler to go with a subsequent celebration shot
#11 nope way past peak action

Keep shooting, it does get better!

Matt

Jun 21, 2023 at 03:31 PM

Cnyphotoguy
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Soccer C&C

Thanks, I had been standing mostly...at best only kneeling periodically. I tried the end line and sitting (butt and then a folding stool at more recent games), and higher shutter speeds.

#1

R7, 300 2.8 IS II, 1/2000 f2.8 ISO400

#2

R6m2, 100-400II, 1/2000 f5.6 ISO1600

#3

R6m2, 100-400II, 1/1000 f5 ISO16000

#4

R7, 70-200III, 1/1600 f2.8 ISO2000

Jul 06, 2023 at 09:46 AM

pulper11
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Soccer C&C

Much better for peak action.

However, IMO you still have a lot of extra space that I would crop out. Look at picture #4. You have a half cropped person on the left. That's not important to the picture. In that picture, for example, I could crop from the right side up to the left arm of the trailing player in blue. That would leave the full player there and still be a pretty tight crop on the action. On the left side, I would crop out all the background players on the left, and then potentially more, so long as that leaves a little negative space for the play to "go into". And if that resulted in a weird shape for the picture, then I would consider cropping differently on the top and bottom.

Picture 3 I would crop around the players in the "group" that are directly involved in the play. The far player on the left has little to do the the image, and the two players on the right side again have nothing to do with the image. I would go tight. crop down to just above the ball. Crop in from the right up to the left shoe of #4 in light blue. Crop in from the left up to the player in blue's right shoe, and then adjust top and bottom again to get a pleasing ratio.

I believe #1 and #2 could also use similar cropping techniques.

I've gotten a lot tighter with my crops in recent times and my pictures have benefited greatly from it. If you take a look at my blog post that I've linked to below, and look at #2, I discuss how I used to crop and how I'd crop now.

https://photobybarnick.com/blog-wvu-vs-kansas-state-football/

Hope this helps.

Jul 06, 2023 at 10:26 AM

Cnyphotoguy
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Soccer C&C

Regarding the cropping, are you doing freeform crops? I've been sticking with 3:2 or 4:5 as arbitrary aspect ratios I've personally found awkward and unlikeable. I haven't swapped to 2:3 or 5:4 (converting landscape to portrait) much, though certainly more favorable IMO.

Jul 06, 2023 at 03:06 PM

Cnyphotoguy
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Soccer C&C

pulper11 wrote:
I've gotten a lot tighter with my crops in recent times and my pictures have benefited greatly from it. If you take a look at my blog post that I've linked to below, and look at #2, I discuss how I used to crop and how I'd crop now.

https://photobybarnick.com/blog-wvu-vs-kansas-state-football/

Hope this helps.

What you outlined in #2 is quite helpful, thanks.

Jul 06, 2023 at 03:14 PM

pulper11
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Soccer C&C

Cnyphotoguy wrote:
Regarding the cropping, are you doing freeform crops? I've been sticking with 3:2 or 4:5 as arbitrary aspect ratios I've personally found awkward and unlikeable. I haven't swapped to 2:3 or 5:4 (converting landscape to portrait) much, though certainly more favorable IMO.

I do freeform crops unless I'm printing.
I once asked Peter Reed Miller, a famous sports photographer, on his youtube channel about cropping and he indicated he does the same thing (freeform). he also, when people sent in their images for critique, would almost always tell them to crop more.

Jul 06, 2023 at 04:57 PM

pulper11
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Soccer C&C

Cnyphotoguy wrote:
What you outlined in #2 is quite helpful, thanks.

Thanks! Glad I could help.

Jul 06, 2023 at 04:58 PM

schlotz
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Soccer C&C

It comes down to zeroing in on PEAK action when cropping. Doing so will significantly improve the impact of a photo. Including negative space (non-essential elements) destroys the strength of a photo. It can also be important to know where to position the action within the frame, as mentioned earlier. Always try to position action so that it has space to go into.

Jul 07, 2023 at 08:21 AM

pulper11
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Soccer C&C

I took the liberty of downloading the 4th image to try the crop. I decided that it looked better with some of the background player on the right cut off. I opened up the shadows and highlights, and increased the blacks (lowered the number). I think it gives it a bit more pop, although this was done on an already very compressed image so may not be great.

One more thing. I notice that you shot this at 123mm on a 70-200. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but I've done this several times and am really trying to get away from doing this. And that is: using a smaller focal length to get more in the image knowing I can crop later. I'm trying more and more to shoot, on my 70-200mm, at 200mm. It is challenging but the image quality is worth it IMO. Just a suggestion.

Here is the image:

Jul 07, 2023 at 08:46 AM

Cnyphotoguy
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Soccer C&C

pulper11 wrote:
I took the liberty of downloading the 4th image to try the crop. I decided that it looked better with some of the background player on the right cut off. I opened up the shadows and highlights, and increased the blacks (lowered the number). I think it gives it a bit more pop, although this was done on an already very compressed image so may not be great.
Thanks, helpful to see another's perspective.

pulper11 wrote:
I notice that you shot this at 123mm on a 70-200. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but I've done this several times and am really trying to get away from doing this. And that is: using a smaller focal length to get more in the image knowing I can crop later.
No, that was my error - something I am still working on - the play had been to my left close, then moved to the right and I didn't get recomposed before shooting the image as I'd lost how far the ball had gone.

Jul 07, 2023 at 07:12 PM

B Benson
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Soccer C&C

Many good suggestions posted, so will just make a couple, first tighter crops with increase the impact of the images and really be aware of the background, and place yourself where you can avoid clutter or distracting elements . All of your images caught peak action which really ands to the interest of the viewers. Bruce

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:46 PM


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