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SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBo...

  
 
mcbroomf
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


eyal wrote:
Amazon and Best Buy have the Samsung SN850X 4tb for $230. Two of those in a SonnetTech Echo Dual NVMe dock for about $750 total and have 8 TB of JBOD/SPAN? I'm fine with 'just' tripling my current speeds on the NAS...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B7CQ2CHH

Thoughts?



You mean WD not Samsung

Good deal for the SSD, I paid $400 for one back in Feb.

Same comment as above though. The PDF for Sonnet compatibility has note 6 for the WD that says it's not compatible with Mac OS. Mine is worknig OK in an Acasis (single SSD) enclosure, both Mac and Win.



Jul 11, 2023 at 06:39 AM
eyal
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


mcbroomf wrote:
You mean WD not Samsung

Good deal for the SSD, I paid $400 for one back in Feb.

Same comment as above though. The PDF for Sonnet compatibility has note 6 for the WD that says it's not compatible with Mac OS. Mine is worknig OK in an Acasis (single SSD) enclosure, both Mac and Win.


Thanks for the correction and pointing that out. Any idea how well the Mac does SPAN across two externals?



Jul 11, 2023 at 07:57 AM
mcbroomf
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


I don't use SPAN as you lose both if 1 dies. I keep my files in yearly folders so it's easy to manage across drives and I stick with JBOD (with a Raid 0 exception that I will convert when I switch from SATA SSD to NVMe SSD soon'ish)


Jul 11, 2023 at 08:04 AM
Vivek
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


eyal wrote:
Thanks for the correction and pointing that out. Any idea how well the Mac does SPAN across two externals?


It should work just fine. Alternatively, you can also buy the two Acasis docks or TB4 enclosures that give you 2800 MB/s or so individually for 4TB each - this is more usable in my case but as they say YMMV. Just depends on what your goals are. As Mike mentioned above, I would NOT recommend spanning (RAID0) without a robust local backup strategy.



Jul 11, 2023 at 08:29 AM
mcbroomf
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


Vivek wrote:
It should work just fine. Alternatively, you can also buy the two Acasis docks or TB4 enclosures that give you 2800 MB/s or so individually for 4TB each - this is more usable in my case but as they say YMMV. Just depends on what your goals are. As Mike mentioned above, I would NOT recommend spanning (RAID0) without a robust local backup strategy.


I think you were checking with Sonnet about the compatibility of the WD? Did you hear from them?

Thx




Jul 11, 2023 at 08:52 AM
Vivek
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


No. I will ping them again. But I might go with Acasis dock as I am also checking with them. The problem with Sonnettech dock is that they use PCIe Gen 3x2 links on each m.2 port and this limits the performance unless you’re in RAID0 configuration. I am less and less interested in that config.


Jul 11, 2023 at 08:54 AM
eyal
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


One more idea I wanted to run by you...how about using U.2 drives?

So the OWC Mercury Pro U.2 Dual allows you to use two U.2 or 8 NVMe in their U.2 shuttles. ServerSupply has a few 7.68tb U.2 drives and I honestly don't know how to decipher the IOPS and differences but I'm looking at Samsungs at $505 to $730 each.

The Mercury gets to 2800 speeds in RAID0 but 1500 in JBOD which would be fine and get me 15tb of usable space without needing RAID to hit 1500 read/write (3x my current).

Thoughts? I have a feeling I'm missing something with the U.2 idea...

Mercury specs - https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB3MPDU000J/#specs

Link to U.2 - https://www.serversupply.com/SSD/NVMe%20U.2/7.68TB?maxPrice=950&mfgrFilter=&minPrice=0&condFilter=&page=1



Jul 16, 2023 at 02:07 PM
EB-1
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


The PM9A3 is PCIe 4 and only a few years old compared to 5 years old for the PCI3 3 PM983. They are both fairly read intensive drives but should be fine for general use. Make sure that you will have some sort of warranty for the SSDs since most are bulk purchases that are not for end users. IOPs needed for single users are not going to be high on client machines. There are better, but more expensive drives in U.2 or preferrably U.3 nowadays.

That OWC enclosure looks rather old. I'd be searching for one that is TB4 not using a discontinued JHL6540 TB3 controller. It might be fine for now, but you might be facing compatibility issues in the future.

EBH



Jul 16, 2023 at 11:40 PM
 


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eyal
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


EB-1 wrote:
The PM9A3 is PCIe 4 and only a few years old compared to 5 years old for the PCI3 3 PM983. They are both fairly read intensive drives but should be fine for general use. Make sure that you will have some sort of warranty for the SSDs since most are bulk purchases that are not for end users. IOPs needed for single users are not going to be high on client machines. There are better, but more expensive drives in U.2 or preferrably U.3 nowadays.

That OWC enclosure looks rather old. I'd be searching for one that is TB4
...Show more

You have a true wealth of knowledge on this stuff. Thank you!

I'm curious where you think the best bang for the buck lies these days in external storage suitable for photographers. What would be your ideal setup if you weren't chasing ultimate speed but wanted a large 10-20 TB, fast-ish (>750-1000 MB/s) device that would be reliable for next 3-5 years and not break the bank...



Jul 17, 2023 at 06:15 AM
Andrew2
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


EB-1 wrote:
I would not run RAID 01, which seems to be what you are doing with the four 4TB SSDs, but rather RAID 10.
To be practical if you only need 8TB, then buy a single 8TB SSD and mirror that or sync to another drive, rather than creating a nested array.
The Sonnettech Echo Dual NVMe Thunderbolt dock is just that, and has no CPU or anything to run FW or software that I can find. It appears that it would be dependent on the host for managing arrays.


A bit late to the party and I don't know if the questions have been resolved but I want to add running a RAID 10 setup requires at least 4 drives. BUT, It will also halve the storage. Example 4 x 6TB drives = 24TB. But with RAID10 you will only have 12TB available storage. The big plus of such a setup though is the huge increase in read / write speeds. And of course, redundancy (and why only half the storage).

How do I know this? Because I run a Western Digital 4-bay NAS with four 6TB drives running in RAID 10

I'm sure you know this, but I didn't see that mentioned so....



Jul 17, 2023 at 10:26 AM
rscheffler
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


The traditional benefit of RAID 0, if using HDDs, is the additional speed, but one of the earlier posters wanted to run their NVME set up in this manner via Thunderbolt. As it stands now, a single NVME will hit the max TB transfer speed. An exception (assuming Apple hardware) is if you have a machine, such as a Studio, where at least some of the TB ports are on separate controllers where you could do a RAID 0 across those ports to get faster throughput to a single volume than would be possible with a single TB connection. In the Apple ecosystem this appears to be the only way to get faster than TB speeds with your own storage other than pony up for more of Apple's internal storage at time of purchase. The Mac Pro would be an exception if you can afford it and the related PCI expansion, such as OWC's Accelsior 8M2 solution (a PCIe card with slots for 8 NVMEs to be RAID configured for up to 26GB/s throughput). Tweak Town did a review in case anyone's interested.


Jul 17, 2023 at 10:28 PM
elkhornsun
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


I was using two NVME modules configured for RAID1 on a PCIe card. Data speed was throttled back as the two modules shared a common channel. Upgraded to a Sonnet board that provides separate channels for p to 4 NVME modules and performance more than doubled.

Drawback to the NVME modules is that they tend to overhead and then they fail without warning. I have had two Samsung 970 EVO modules fail in the past 18 months. Fortunately I have a NAS with RAID6 as my primary data storage on the network and only use the NVME for batch processing of thousands of files.

With the 11 NAS RAID drives from Western Digital and Seagate I have in use there has been only had one drive failure since 2006.



Jul 18, 2023 at 09:46 PM
mcbroomf
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


elkhornsun wrote:
I was using two NVME modules configured for RAID1 on a PCIe card. Data speed was throttled back as the two modules shared a common channel. Upgraded to a Sonnet board that provides separate channels for p to 4 NVME modules and performance more than doubled.

Drawback to the NVME modules is that they tend to overhead and then they fail without warning. I have had two Samsung 970 EVO modules fail in the past 18 months. Fortunately I have a NAS with RAID6 as my primary data storage on the network and only use the NVME for batch processing
...Show more
Were the NVMe fails on the Sonnet or the previous PCIe card?

Thanks

Mike



Jul 19, 2023 at 02:59 AM
EB-1
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


That's strange since we had several in machines for 3+ years. You do need proper heatsinking and airflow.

EBH



Jul 19, 2023 at 06:38 AM
Jeff
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


eyal wrote:
You have a true wealth of knowledge on this stuff. Thank you!

I'm curious where you think the best bang for the buck lies these days in external storage suitable for photographers. What would be your ideal setup if you weren't chasing ultimate speed but wanted a large 10-20 TB, fast-ish (>750-1000 MB/s) device that would be reliable for next 3-5 years and not break the bank...


Did you ever get an answer to this question, or ever pick an approach?



Mar 19, 2024 at 02:52 PM
eyal
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · SSD vs NVMe and RAID4 vs JBOD config for LRc photo storage with M1 MacBook Pro?


Jeff wrote:
Did you ever get an answer to this question, or ever pick an approach?


Ended up just replacing my Sandisk 2TB external with a Samsung 990 Pro 4 TB ($240) in a ZikeDrive USB4 enclosure ($128). That is partitioned to act as a Time Machine as well as storage when home and a backup when traveling.

I keep all Lightroom files on an OWC Thunderbay 4 and the catalog on the internal MacBook Pro SSD

I played around with having files stored on the external and, despite being one of the fastest setups available, found that things like saving PSD files in photoshop were slower to the external than the internal SSD.

I did created Smart Previews for the LR catalog (at least my landscapes that I access more often) and find access/searching is fast enough but I admittedly only go to the files when I need to do something simple like export as JPG for printing.



Mar 19, 2024 at 06:36 PM
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