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D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

gear-nut
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

Or... So we're now pumping shadows up 4 or 5 stops to underscore sensor differences that are irrelevant to the image?

Tradeoffs. Horses for courses. I'll take the supremely accurate and fast AF with a little more noise over better noise in light the camera cannot focus in...

If you own a number of F mount lenses and want cleanest high ISO 45 MP images, then shoot a Z7ii or D850. But realize with the D850 you'll be focusing manually in light the Z7ii can still sort of AF in and the Z8/9 actually AF's pretty well in.

Dec 10, 2023 at 01:08 PM

sjms
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

there is so much more in this world to see and remember.

Dec 10, 2023 at 01:20 PM

Ai_Print
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

RoamingScott wrote:
Ah yes, the vaunted “thickness” element of IQ. What the hell is this thread?

The thick is getting deep in here...

Dec 10, 2023 at 02:12 PM

Ai_Print
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

Kasper6188 wrote:
It’s quite okay if you can’t see it. I can respect that.

I see a difference in your most recent test, but it's your test and not a super controlled test. Aside from my Hasselblad X2D, the best image quality I have seen yet in terms of range is the Z7II which besides being small, is the reason I am keeping it.

I think the thing that got me on the more cynical side of contribution in this thread was for sure the title and then just how it went after that. Maybe a less provocative approach next time?

Dec 10, 2023 at 02:16 PM

SiMuMe
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

Z8 got a little bit less light to work with in this test.

Dec 10, 2023 at 11:19 PM

Kasper6188
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

SiMuMe wrote:
Z8 got a little bit less light to work with in this test.

http://www.cimeza.com/stuff/fpic/20231211.jpg

Good catch, I didn't even notice this because I was in A mode. Still a pretty big difference though.

Dec 11, 2023 at 10:26 AM

gear-nut
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

If you want to see the real difference, shoot a McBeth color checker in both with the EXACT same manual settings and lighting. I'd also start at a higher ISO to begin with, like 1600 -- this way a 3-stop bump gets you to 12.8K, a good range to visually compare actual noise between the cams at those ISOs. Now process both identically down to WB with all auto adjustments and NR turned off. Now lift EXPOSURE only, not shadows (shadows is non-linear) and watch what happens to the dark patches.

Your D850 will still likely be better -- just not anyway near as much better as your above example shows. In fact, I'll bet they are within one stop of each other...

Dec 11, 2023 at 11:06 AM

m.sommers00
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

These tests are so stupid. I'm sorry but it doesn't prove/disprove anything.

Dec 11, 2023 at 11:29 AM

gear-nut
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

m.sommers00 wrote:
These tests are so stupid. I'm sorry but it doesn't prove/disprove anything.

I agree in the theory of how this type of issue affects a practical use scenario, however it is of interest to some of us at least academically.

I also understand the OP's frustration -- he just laid out several grand for the latest and greatest cam only to find what he feels is a significant wart compared to his "old" cam.

Me personally, I use my Z9 at ISO 64,000 and am happy with the results, at least from my properly processed raw files...

Dec 11, 2023 at 11:49 AM

sjms
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

and am happy with the results, at least from my properly processed raw files...

oh, those magic words.

Dec 11, 2023 at 12:04 PM

RoamingScott
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

Kasper6188 wrote:
Good catch, I didn't even notice this because I was in A mode. Still a pretty big difference though.

And here's where everyone SHOULD know not to pay any more attention to the completely inconsistent results your absolute lack of methodology is producing.

Dec 11, 2023 at 12:07 PM

mjgphotoz
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

I have gone back and forth on this subject, and I retain my original decision reached after my first mirrorless camera, the Z6ii. I have both cameras, and I love both the D850 and the Z8 cameras for different reasons and uses. I plan, for now, to keep and use both cameras according to their individual strengths and weaknesses as related to the subjects at hand. There is peace, joy, and tranquility in the camera bag. Me happy.

Please note, all else being equal, I totally understand the financial implications of these decisions and the restrictions that they provide. In the end, it usually becomes a compromise between what is newer or "better", what we are willing to give up for the newer/better, or not, and the end cost in dollars or trade that result from our choices. Looking back, we have never had so many choices for near "do it all" cameras. Times are good.

Hugs to all!
Mary

Dec 11, 2023 at 12:09 PM

Kasper6188
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

RoamingScott wrote:
And here's where everyone SHOULD know not to pay any more attention to the completely inconsistent results your absolute lack of methodology is producing.

Absolute lack of methodology or not, the d850 sensor is still cleaner than z8/9 sensor more often than not *shrug*

Dec 11, 2023 at 01:32 PM

gear-nut
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

Kasper6188 wrote:
Absolute lack of methodology or not, the d850 sensor is still cleaner than z8/9 sensor more often than not *shrug*

Just curious, do you shoot raw or only jpeg?

Dec 11, 2023 at 01:58 PM

lifef8
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

Yay, I can't wait for this thread to jump off the recent topic lists.

Dec 11, 2023 at 02:12 PM

gear-nut
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p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

lifef8 wrote:
Yay, I can't wait for this thread to jump off the recent topic lists.

Why? If you don't like it, don't click into it -- and certainly don't comment as that keeps bumping it up

Dec 11, 2023 at 02:15 PM

Kasper6188
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p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

gear-nut wrote:
Just curious, do you shoot raw or only jpeg?

I shoot raw only. Every once in a while I’ll make an in body jpg from the raw only for quick distribution. I do tend to crop heavily and push my files around here and there. The heavy cropping is where I notice the difference most in my usage. They seem to hold up better near the extremes.

Dec 11, 2023 at 02:17 PM

Kasper6188
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p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

gear-nut wrote:
Just curious, do you shoot raw or only jpeg?

Here's an example of a d850 file that I would say holds up near the extremes better than a Z8/9 file would. I left it noisy on purpose. Pretty heavy crop, iso3600, shadows pushed to 100. This detail retained in the shadows I just don't get out of the stacked sensor.

Dec 11, 2023 at 06:03 PM

m.sommers00
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p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

This whole thread feels like a "trust me bro" situation

Dec 11, 2023 at 09:31 PM

Kasper6188
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p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · D850 still takes a better picture than z8/9, change my mind.

m.sommers00 wrote:
This whole thread feels like a "trust me bro" situation

It’s more of a take it for what it’s worth to you situation. If it doesn’t matter to you, it doesn’t. No biggie

Dec 11, 2023 at 09:53 PM

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