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Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.

  
 
aboudd
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


I just wrote an article for my blog on AI and this new feature in PhotoShop which I believe stifles creativity. Go to Click here to read AI, Oy Vey!



©Photo by Aboud Dweck, All Rights Reserved


Before





©Photo by Aboud Dweck, All Rights Reserved


After





©Photo by Aboud Dweck, All Rights Reserved


Actual Flat Iron building in Pittsburgh





©Photo by Aboud Dweck, All Rights Reserved


AI generated version




May 30, 2023 at 06:14 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Could not agree with you more. This is a very slippery slope.


May 30, 2023 at 06:58 PM
Bill Gass
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Dam!


May 30, 2023 at 09:09 PM
aboudd
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


From Wired Magazine:
“ Runaway AI Is an Extinction Risk, Experts Warn
A new statement from industry leaders cautions that artificial intelligence poses a threat to humanity on par with nuclear war or a pandemic.”



May 30, 2023 at 09:22 PM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Used judiciously, this tool can be a blessing. For instance I could quickly remove the ugly white posts from this image -

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1810217/

and retain what is in essence an honest representation of the scene.

Needless to say, there is much room for 'dishonest' representation, too.



May 31, 2023 at 06:41 AM
aboudd
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


I'd like to take this discussion a bit further. The key question, what is photography now? Using generative fill destroys the original image in generating what is no longer the photographer's original work, by typing in a direction, and letting the program generate 3 choices to use, as shown above. The user effectively cedes creative control to AI. Manipulation of photographs goes back to the very first days of the art, but those manipulations, by Man Ray, Philippe Halsman, André Kertész, Dora Maar and others were created within the imagination of the photographer, not by artificial intelligence. It is not minor corrections I object to. As I mentioned in my blog post features such as object selection can be used for corrections and minor modifications, like removing people or objects from a scene seamlessly. This, an alternative to the older method of selection, deletion and cloning, I have no problem with that, nor do I have a problem with photographers that generate surreal images with various methods, including compilations of multiple images, mined in their creative instincts. It is ceding control to AI that is most unnerving. Therein lies the slippery slope.


May 31, 2023 at 07:33 AM
Rajan Parrikar
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Just to be clear on my earlier comment: I think the great promise (to me) of AI Generative Fill lies in its ability as a super cloning tool or a super content-aware fill tool. I am not excited about its use as a generator of external objects in an image. That is not photography, in my scheme of things. Graphic designers and compositors, on the other hand, must be thrilled.


May 31, 2023 at 08:38 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


aboudd wrote:
I just wrote an article for my blog on AI and this new feature in PhotoShop which I believe stifles creativity. Go to Click here to read AI, Oy Vey!

I got that notice when I updated my PsCC apps Aboud.
I will have to read it!
Thanks.
Dan




May 31, 2023 at 10:39 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Rajan Parrikar wrote:
Just to be clear on my earlier comment: I think the great promise (to me) of AI Generative Fill lies in its ability as a super cloning tool or a super content-aware fill tool. I am not excited about its use as a generator of external objects in an image. That is not photography, in my scheme of things. Graphic designers and compositors, on the other hand, must be thrilled.

Now I can agree with this also Rajan!
The Ps C.A.T is one of my most favorite tools.
Dan




May 31, 2023 at 10:41 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


aboudd wrote:
Therein lies the slippery slope.


You mean most technological 'advances' for the last more than 100 years?

The wheel, electricity, plastics, cellphones, Internet, nuclear power, etc., etc. ad nauseam.



May 31, 2023 at 10:28 PM
 


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aboudd
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


That's what you take from this discussion?


Jun 01, 2023 at 05:25 AM
lylejk
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Tools are tools. Have no problem with AI so long as you think of it as just that. You still have to have a person behind the scenes to manipulate to taste. Other folks may think otherwise, but that's what's great about opinions now isn't it. Regardless, I'll stick with the GIMP. Resynthesizer has been around long before even content aware fill (much less AI generative fill). lol




Jun 01, 2023 at 12:00 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


aboudd wrote:
That's what you take from this discussion?


Yeah, pros and cons, good and bad, use with common sense and caution.

What else do YOU need to know?



Jun 01, 2023 at 02:11 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Somewhere between homemade cookies from scratch, a cookie mix and store bought cookie dough vs. store bought cookies, lies the distinction wrt how much was your hand-work vs. pre-done by others. Most folks will eat whatever cookie you put in the jar, as long as it's tasty.

There will be a zillion folks who'll consume AI ... the same way that Billions have eaten McDonald's burgers. But, if you come to my house, my burgers taste nothing like McDonalds.



Jun 01, 2023 at 09:26 PM
fotoactvst
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Elliot Erwitt said, and I'm paraphrasing, that the digital sensor was the end of photography. As much as I admire him I can say he was wrong.

Tools change but human creativity never does. For instance, some of the AI generated street 'photography'(imagery, really) is in black and white. Why? I'm guessing that was one of the parameters the AI was instructed, by a human, to use. It's a simple example but points to the possibility of much more control by humans.



Jun 02, 2023 at 10:45 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Sort of an "Hal...2001 A Space Odyessy" remote comparison of evolution.?
Maybe..maybe not.... Loss of human control? Someone has to tell "it" what to do.
Dan



Jun 02, 2023 at 11:04 AM
aboudd
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


Yeah, but “it” may not care.


Jun 02, 2023 at 12:00 PM
Toothwalker
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.




aboudd wrote:
I'd like to take this discussion a bit further. The key question, what is photography now?


Photography literally means "drawing with light", not drawing with computers and software. There has to be a limit to the amount of image manipulation, beyond which we no longer call the result a photograph but just an image. The big challenge will be reaching consensus and making people adhere to the definitions. It is easy to see how AI is going to ruin photo contests and cast shadows over photojournalism, more so than is already happening today.

For me personally the challenge is to make the best of a scene as is. My worst crime ever is probably removing a bird flying in the wrong spot.



Jun 03, 2023 at 06:06 AM
StoneCrop
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


I personally find images in which certain things are 'impossible' or eerily 'not-right' to often be more compelling visually than pictures which represent a scene accurately. It's the ways that the camera sees the world differently than I do that makes it interesting to look at. And if you think this is "the beginning of the end" or something, I'd have to say that really we should think of photography as "the beginning of the end" of image-making by a person. Before photography was invented, people had to choose what to include in every step of the process of image-making (not that it was free of tools or optical aids of course, such as the various early cameras – camera lucida, camera obscura, comparator mirrors, grids, etc). If it's "man vs machine", all of you who participate in photography are already on the machine's side. Photography is a machine-made art. Yes, humans have something to do with it: choosing settings, composition, retouching… but all of those same choices can be approximated with text commands as well… I don't see how that makes the choices somehow less valid. Generative AI is just another step in the process of image making by machine, and many steps have already been taken that way since the dawn of photography, through the digital age. And seeing 'how a machine sees' produces so much of the visual interest in photography and photo-adjacent images.

The meaning of a work of art is created in the viewer, and at the moment of viewing, it really doesn't make any difference what the method of creation was, unless that's part of the narrative delivered through the piece. The image suggests a story or it doesn't. It produces an emotional response or it doesn't. It satisfies an aesthetic sense or it doesn't. Who cares whether someone changed "the original" by cropping, dodging, burning, cloning, or generative filling? No one sees 'the original' subject, they're only viewing the final result, and whatever is in the final result is all that matters to the viewer.

The only way I can see this as a threat is in the realm of documentary work, because the photograph has such an aura of truth-conveyance, but even that has been known to be false for more than a century, and people have been producing misleading or fantastical, surreal and impossible images using photographic processes for at least as long, so the association of photographic images with 'facts' and 'truth' is best left to those who don't want to know too much about the process anyway, and it is in fact that association that makes photographic-like images so easily used in the creation of 'deepfakes' as a way to deceive people… all of which has been done by other means than generative AI for generations now. Maybe the growing popularity of AI will finally dispel the notion that "if it looks like a photo, it must be real" – a notion that makes people very easily manipulated by fake news. But any image can be used to deceive, including one that perfectly represents what the camera was pointed at. Just pair it with a certain written phrase to direct the context and meaning-making of the image and voila – fake news! For example, take a shot of rioters burning a building from 5 years ago in another place. Then place a caption related to a current protest in your city next to that photo. People will assume the caption is explaining the image, and will create a story about the current protesters burning down a local building. It's been that easy to lie and deceive all along. And even major news outlets engage in those practices, so the notion that some news outlet is 'an established high quality journalistic organization with a longstanding history yada yada yada' is just one more layer which makes it easier for us to be fooled and accept their stories as presented, unquestioningly.

Generative AI just makes certain types of image-making easier, and therefore more widely accessible to a population less-skilled at digital image manipulation/creation. Just like, cameras make image-making easier, and therefore more widely accessible to a population less skilled at manual image creation with a pencil or set of paints.



Jun 11, 2023 at 02:53 AM
ftllens
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Generative fill - PhotoShop's AI monster.


It makes creativity more inclusive imo and the collective eye for IQ and the arts keep rising.

Sure people developed great crafts in post processing since film but it's still manipulation. Using even the contrast slider or exposure is still manipulation. Everyone just has different standards of what is unpure enough for any medium.

Plus if you don't like it, don't use it.

Usually artists nowadays won't hide if they are utilizing AI or not, it's embraced in the culture. It's a newer medium which incorporates the randomness.

Utilizing prompts carefully to get the work closer to what you feel or see in your mind is a skill too.

At the end of the day if your artwork expresses what you want to convey effectively, how you got there doesn't matter imo.

Also, there is AI tools for detecting AI manipulated images too. It'll always be cat and mouse in that dynamic too.



Jul 04, 2023 at 05:10 PM
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