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Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

HicHic
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

I currently shoot with OM-1 and 300mm F4 for wildlife. I have both MC-14 and MC-20. I usually use MC-20 and get as close as possible to maximize detail, but sometimes I use MC-14 or no MC if I could get close enough.

With the 150-400mm lens, the angle of view with both 1.25x and MC-14 attached is similar to the combination I shoot with most (300mm + MC-20). 700mm lens vs 600mm lens - or 1400mm vs 1200mm FF equivalent.

Has anyone compared these combinations side by side to see how their sharpness compares ([150-400 + 1.25x + 1.4x] vs [300 + 2.0x])? I always pixel peep and want the highest image quality possible, so knowing how these combinations compare will help me decide whether to upgrade.

Of course, the 150-400 comes with many other advantages (internal TC, zoom flexibility), but it is very important to me that there be a distinct image quality improvement for the investment to be worthwhile.

If you have made such comparisons before, or am willing to shoot something random (a dollar bill or something), please share the files. It will greatly help with my purchasing decision, as this is a substantial amount to spend. Thank you!

May 23, 2023 at 07:43 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

I would think the difference in image quality would be so small as to be irrelevant. If I wanted to spend that much money, I would pick the zoom over the prime any day simply for its versatility.

And I sure as hell would not make a decision based on comparison shots with a dollar bill.

May 24, 2023 at 03:52 AM

Alan Kefauver
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

HicHic wrote:
I currently shoot with OM-1 and 300mm F4 for wildlife. I have both MC-14 and MC-20. I usually use MC-20 and get as close as possible to maximize detail, but sometimes I use MC-14 or no MC if I could get close enough.

With the 150-400mm lens, the angle of view with both 1.25x and MC-14 attached is similar to the combination I shoot with most (300mm + MC-20). 700mm lens vs 600mm lens - or 1400mm vs 1200mm FF equivalent.

Has anyone compared these combinations side by side to see how their sharpness compares ([150-400 + 1.25x + 1.4x] vs...Show more →

I have both. Their is no difference in IQ in my experience, and I'm a pixel peeper and a cropper who uses Gigapixel. However, one of the reasons I went to the OM System was for weight and handling. Last week at the Conowingo Dam shooting Eagles, I got more keepers with the 300 f/4+1.4 than with the 150-400 f/4.5. Why, for me the 300 was so much easier to track flying birds due to having less bulk and weight than the big white.

But, on my next Africa Safari, I am taking my R5 kit and the OM-1 with the big white as there will be lens supports and gimbals in the vehicles. On my transatlantic trip to Dublin next week I am taking only the OM-1 kit with the 12-40 Pro, the 40-150 Pro, and the 300 Pro as well as both TCs because I will be more on foot when off the boat (Boston, Bar Harbor, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland) and weight and portability is the issue. The 300 is coming along only for the Puffin Island boat trip.

Which lens is better? The answer is "it depends." Quality and IQ wise, they are the same.

May 24, 2023 at 08:29 AM

HicHic
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

Thanks Alan, that's useful to know that the 300mm is easier to track and shoot BIFs.

Do you mind going into more detail in regards to the nature of your test between this specific combination -> (300mm F4 + MC-20) vs (150-400 + MC-14 + 1.25x).

May 24, 2023 at 05:36 PM

Alan Kefauver
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

HicHic wrote:
Thanks Alan, that's useful to know that the 300mm is easier to track and shoot BIFs.

Do you mind going into more detail in regards to the nature of your test between this specific combination -> (300mm F4 + MC-20) vs (150-400 + MC-14 + 1.25x).

My test consist of taking pics of birds a lo-o-o-ng way away with both combos. At this point, the difference seems to be more atmospheric issues and technique differences than lens differences. Darn hard to hold steady at 1200mm-1400mm. (I don't use a tripod for BIF)

May 25, 2023 at 08:12 AM

FrankA373
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

Is it worth the upgrade? That’s a money decision only you can decide. Today the Nikon Z8 is released. I looked long and hard at making the change. The thing that nagged at me was losing this lens. Sure I can crop the Z8 but then I am at or about 20MP anyway. This lens is a game changer. It creates opportunities that a prime can’t without in the field adding and removing TC’s. And for my eye it’s a sharper lens than the 300. I get more keepers. I haven’t yet seen the swirly and ghosting out of focus area in a photo with the zoom. I used the 300 before the 150-400 came out. I just don’t like hiking around and swapping lens components especially when that moment to get the shot is fleeting. Weight is no issue. The Cotton Carrier solves that. The lens is very well built and meant for the field.

May 25, 2023 at 08:27 AM

HicHic
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

Alan Kefauver wrote:
My test consist of taking pics of birds a lo-o-o-ng way away with both combos. At this point, the difference seems to be more atmospheric issues and technique differences than lens differences. Darn hard to hold steady at 1200mm-1400mm. (I don't use a tripod for BIF)

Oh I see. You're right, the atmospheric effects are most likely bottlenecking the sharpness, so you won't be able to perceive any difference between the two setups. In that case, it still remains an open question of which particular combination will produce the more detailed images.

May 25, 2023 at 05:35 PM

HicHic
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

FrankA373 wrote:
Is it worth the upgrade? That’s a money decision only you can decide. Today the Nikon Z8 is released. I looked long and hard at making the change. The thing that nagged at me was losing this lens. Sure I can crop the Z8 but then I am at or about 20MP anyway. This lens is a game changer. It creates opportunities that a prime can’t without in the field adding and removing TC’s. And for my eye it’s a sharper lens than the 300. I get more keepers. I haven’t yet seen the swirly and ghosting out of focus...Show more →

The main advantage of FF is the shallower DoF imo. Also, Nikon has quite a few attractive telephoto options. If you're close to the subject and don't need to crop further in post, then the FF setup will also produce cleaner files with less noise. The 150-400 is indeed a one of a kind lens. Professional results with the flexibility of a zoom, and somewhat light for what it is.

May 25, 2023 at 05:38 PM

molson
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

HicHic wrote:
The main advantage of FF is the shallower DoF imo. Also, Nikon has quite a few attractive telephoto options. If you're close to the subject and don't need to crop further in post, then the FF setup will also produce cleaner files with less noise. The 150-400 is indeed a one of a kind lens. Professional results with the flexibility of a zoom, and somewhat light for what it is.

Of course, with the Nikon Z8/Z9 you will need to fork over C$20,000 for one of their fast telephoto lenses - their affordable 400mm f4.5 will have the same depth of field as the OM 150-400mm f4.5. The only thing the Nikon really gives you is a shallower depth of bank account (speaking as someone who switched from the OM-1/150-400 to the Nikon Z9/400 f4.5 and regretted it...)

May 26, 2023 at 10:24 AM

HicHic
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

molson wrote:
Of course, with the Nikon Z8/Z9 you will need to fork over C$20,000 for one of their fast telephoto lenses - their affordable 400mm f4.5 will have the same depth of field as the OM 150-400mm f4.5. The only thing the Nikon really gives you is a shallower depth of bank account (speaking as someone who switched from the OM-1/150-400 to the Nikon Z9/400 f4.5 and regretted it...)

Oh yeah, 400mm is much too short for most applications. I'd probably be looking at the 800mm PF if I'm switching. On a Z9/Z8, it'll have same resolution as my current OM-1 + 300/4 + MC-20 setup, but with wider AoV for more flexibility in framing.

What made you decide to switch away from the 150-400 setup? Any drawbacks I should be aware of?

May 26, 2023 at 10:52 AM

molson
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

HicHic wrote:
What made you decide to switch away from the 150-400 setup? Any drawbacks I should be aware of?

I wanted to try the Nikon gear. For birds it's almost always in crop mode, so you only have 19mp to work with, and the OM-1 acquires initial focus faster than the Z9. If you're going to get an 800mm f6.3 that will greatly reduce the need to work in crop mode, although you lose the flexibility of the zoom and the built-in TC - I would never go back to using only a prime lens for my main bird/wildlife lens, as constantly having to install and remove TC's gets to be a real pain. Then there's the one-year waiting list for those big Nikon telephoto lenses...

May 26, 2023 at 11:09 AM

HicHic
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

molson wrote:
I wanted to try the Nikon gear. For birds it's almost always in crop mode, so you only have 19mp to work with, and the OM-1 acquires initial focus faster than the Z9. If you're going to get an 800mm f6.3 that will greatly reduce the need to work in crop mode, although you lose the flexibility of the zoom and the built-in TC - I would never go back to using only a prime lens for my main bird/wildlife lens, as constantly having to install and remove TC's gets to be a real pain. Then there's the one-year waiting...Show more →

I think I can live with 800mm FF AoV, since I'm usually using the MC-14 or MC-20 on my 300/4 anyways. Zoom is more flexible for sure, but with 45MP cropping power, the Nikon setup is like a 800-1200mm F6.3~9.45 zoom lens (cropped down to 1200mm, it'll be at 20MP, just like my current setup). But switching systems is so costly...and I enjoy the lens options available in the M43 mount. I doubt I'll make the switch.

May 26, 2023 at 05:10 PM

DaveInHawaii
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

You could rent it on Lensrentals. It's a real good way to put the issue to rest. I'm returning a Leica Q2 today and a nice gimbal head. Really glad I rented both because I decided that neither were a good fit for me.

Photo from this weekend. Guys fishing on the sandbar for bone fish.

OM-1 OLYMPUS M.150-400mm F4.5 TC lens 500mm f/8.0 1/500s 200 ISO -0.3 EV

May 30, 2023 at 02:47 PM

HicHic
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

DaveInHawaii wrote:
You could rent it on Lensrentals. It's a real good way to put the issue to rest. I'm returning a Leica Q2 today and a nice gimbal head. Really glad I rented both because I decided that neither were a good fit for me.

Shipping won't let me choose Canada.

May 31, 2023 at 03:48 PM

DaveInHawaii
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

Ah, shucks...their website says they don't ship internationally.

Well you said in your first post that you would need a distinct improvement in image quality to make the investment. It doesn't sound like there is an improvement. Unless you could really benefit from a zoom I'd say to stick with your original logic. Sounds like you have a killer set up.

Jun 01, 2023 at 12:04 AM

HicHic
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

DaveInHawaii wrote:
Ah, shucks...their website says they don't ship internationally.

Well you said in your first post that you would need a distinct improvement in image quality to make the investment. It doesn't sound like there is an improvement. Unless you could really benefit from a zoom I'd say to stick with your original logic. Sounds like you have a killer set up.

Yea I gotta see some samples. Hopefully someone here has both setups and can help out the community.

Jun 01, 2023 at 06:21 PM

palmor
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

I have both setups but have never done back-to-back testing. I really don't get to that level of comparison, I just use my equipment and if I'm happy with the output that is good enough for me.

Both setups give excellent results but the 150-400 wins for me since I typically always had the 1.4x TC attached to the 300F4 and I'd rather have [email protected] than [email protected]. I want every bit of light I can get

Jun 01, 2023 at 07:48 PM

HicHic
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

palmor wrote:
I have both setups but have never done back-to-back testing. I really don't get to that level of comparison, I just use my equipment and if I'm happy with the output that is good enough for me.

Both setups give excellent results but the 150-400 wins for me since I typically always had the 1.4x TC attached to the 300F4 and I'd rather have [email protected] than [email protected]. I want every bit of light I can get

.

Awesome! Can you quickly shoot a dollar bill with the two combinations to share?

Jun 02, 2023 at 02:43 PM

palmor
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

HicHic wrote:
Awesome! Can you quickly shoot a dollar bill with the two combinations to share?

Couple of things

. I’m not an experienced tester so even doing the dollar bill test I could be prone to a mistake that would mess up the results. Even if I got it right my biggest reasons I don’t want to do that test is I don’t want to know any minor differences between my two lenses to be honest. Just the type of person I am if I find even the smallest difference, even one that would have no impact on my final images, it will haunt me every time I use that lens

I really don’t think lens IQ is the reason to get the 150-400. You are really paying for constant @f4.5 up to 400mm and that internal TC. That extra 2/3s stop of light over the 300+TC is what you are really paying for. Just like a FF F4 lens over a F5.6 lens.

Jun 03, 2023 at 07:14 AM

PV Hiker
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Worth the upgrade to 150-400mm?

+1

Also the ability to ZOOM. Zooming means you can frame the image at capture and not needing to crop after in post, Meaning your subject has more pixels. f/5.6 400mm to 500mm range sure does help.

Jun 03, 2023 at 08:34 AM

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