Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              6              end
  

Archive 2023 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR

  
 
rscheffler
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


rscheffler wrote:
It's probably hobbyists that will buy most of these.

lighthound wrote:
You forgot to use the words "overly wealthy" hobbyists, of which I and many many other hobbyist are not. Sure I/we could afford it, but not justify it over perhaps a very nice once in a lifetime photography trip somewhere. If I actually sold any of my images then it would be much easier to justify but I don't see that happening anytime soon. And that would put me outside being just a hobbyist.


Didn't forget, it's assumed. This has been the case when browsing long lens threads on this board going back 15-20 years. I recall there was pretty significant displeasure when the IS v2 super-teles were released around 10-12 years ago with ~40-50% price increases over the v1 street prices. And here we are now with many now looking to move on from their EF IS v2 lenses.

action99 wrote:
The TCO is not that bad the problem is the cash and insurance.... I brought a used the 200-400 in 2014 for 10'000, sold it for 7600 in 2022... it makes 300$ a year.... for example the lost in value of a R5 is much more per year... it is almost equivalent to a PS subscription.... I lost much more money over the same 8 years in CF, CFast, CFexpress than the lens..


You got a very good price for your 200-400 compared to what has recently been listed here on the buy & sell, or even at various larger reseller. It's difficult to know how well the resale value of a lens will hold over the years, especially as long as 10 years. But yes, from that perspective, the 200-400 has cost me CAD 83 per month to own, based strictly on purchase price. It did have a CAD 2K repair and its portion of my business insurance is about CAD 200 per year. Those ownership costs bring the monthly cost to about CAD 116, which isn't much more than a full tank of gas in the car. I might get CAD 5K for it if sold privately, which would bring TCO down to CAD 75 per month if sold now. And capital depreciation has been claimed for it against business revenue at 20% annually. I don't use the lens every month of the year because I don't strictly do sports, but it certainly has been a factor in revenue generation. And this would still be the case with the 200-500, even if cost of ownership is double the 200-400. I don't think it would result in 2x more revenue than the 200-400, but like the 200-400, it would be a more effective tool. However, when I switched from primes to the 200-400, it was a significant factor in increased productivity (along with the improvements brought by the 1DX over the 1DIV and 1DIII). I don't think the same will be true with the 200-500. Yes, it will probably be nicer to use and technically/optically better lens, but is it anything clients will notice? For me the 200-400 was an instant buy. At the moment, I don't feel that way about the 200-500.

I don't like borrowing money to buy equipment, or leasing, so the major hurdle will be tying up that much cash. Of course the thought arises: what else could be done with that amount of money? Investment, home maintenance or improvements, etc. But used for business, it is a capital investment. But perhaps the correct question would be: is it the right capital investment.



Aug 06, 2023 at 02:06 AM
jedibrain
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR



The sigma 200 to 500 2.8 was about 34lbs...



Al Goldis wrote:
Probably about 60% more than the f/4 version will weigh. They've made pretty amazing advances in weight reduction over the years, so it would still weigh less than my original non-IS 600/4.




Aug 06, 2023 at 09:51 AM
Al Goldis
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


Between the original non-IS 600/4 and the IS III, Canon cut the weight in half.


Aug 06, 2023 at 05:55 PM
action99
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


rscheffler wrote:
Didn't forget, it's assumed. This has been the case when browsing long lens threads on this board going back 15-20 years. I recall there was pretty significant displeasure when the IS v2 super-teles were released around 10-12 years ago with ~40-50% price increases over the v1 street prices. And here we are now with many now looking to move on from their EF IS v2 lenses.

You got a very good price for your 200-400 compared to what has recently been listed here on the buy & sell, or even at various larger reseller. It's difficult to know how
...Show more

Here is Switzerland there maybe only 3 to 4 200-400 on the used marked a year so if you are patient you can ask a higher price. But in 2023 the price also dropped (I think the announcement of 100-300 plus the rumored 200-500 had an impact) . Now they go for around 5500 USD.

I'm also against lease or borrow money for equipment, is a risky thing. The big question is it is a wiser investment a used 200-400 for 5k or 200-500 at 16k?.... most probably a used 200-400.

My point is that a lot of people seems shocked by the price, but it is in line with inflation and competition and my past experience it costed me much more on accessories, cameras etc that the most expensive lens that I had.




Aug 07, 2023 at 04:42 AM
gkinard1952
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


Look forward to you guys pics with this lens as soon as the new R5II and R1 hits the streets.
I am still shooting two ancient EF's and the 7D II... Although the 200-500 would be the perfect lens for me...
One of these days I am going to have to try a Canon mirrorless body.
But, shooting birds on a stick like I do it's hard to justify.



Aug 07, 2023 at 08:09 AM
Scott Stoness
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


dmahar wrote:
Canon Rumours just posted confirmation (CR3) of RF 200-500 F4 (no built in TC) with release Q4 23 or Q1 24. Some suggestion of a new teleconverter to go with this and the 100-300 2.8.

Although I brought the EF 200-400 on release day, not sure this will tempt me...


hmmm f4 to 500mm suggests that it will have bigger glass than 200-400 thus heavier and bulkier. the 200-400 is already pretty big and heavy.

So it's likely to be a good replacement for 500 f4 but not as good as 200-400 for those that often shoot at 400. My al00-400 with 1.4x is pretty sharp at 560mm albeit at f5.6.






Aug 07, 2023 at 04:19 PM
action99
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


Scott Stoness wrote:
hmmm f4 to 500mm suggests that it will have bigger glass than 200-400 thus heavier and bulkier. the 200-400 is already pretty big and heavy.

So it's likely to be a good replacement for 500 f4 but not as good as 200-400 for those that often shoot at 400. My al00-400 with 1.4x is pretty sharp at 560mm albeit at f5.6.



My guess based on the 100-300 vs the EF 300 2.8 II is that the 200-500 will be a bit longer and larger than the 200-400 but not heavier. It will end up being ~10% longer than the 500 F4 II and having same diameter.

In my experience the internal 1.4x of the 200-400 is the weakest part of the lens as the sharpness is not super, the 100-500 at 500 and the 100-300 + 2x are sharper than the 200-400 with 1.4 engaged. So I expect that the 200-500 at 500 will be quite a bit sharper plus it can take the 1.4x and make it 700 F5.6....

With Canon offering both 100-300 and 200-500 (assuming rumor is true) I'm confident that there will be no new 200-400 and no new 500 F4.



Aug 08, 2023 at 03:00 AM
Uarctos
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


Canon seems to develop zooms rather than primes, so maybe a 500-800mm f5.6 next?


Aug 08, 2023 at 03:55 AM
FrenchFry
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR




Uarctos wrote:
Canon seems to develop zooms rather than primes, so maybe a 500-800mm f5.6 next?


I would love that lens!



Aug 20, 2023 at 08:14 PM
EB-1
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


Maybe if it were a 400-800/5.6, but that would be a very long lens if other zoom vs. fixed tele sizes are any guide. Canon cannot just put a 2x in the rear like the 400/2.8 to keep it short. These new tele zooms are just good enough with a 1.4x at 45MP.

EBH



Aug 20, 2023 at 09:59 PM
Flowernut
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


how about a 150 to 600 f5.6L. They made one almost 40 years ago for the fd mount. surely they can do it again. went to quarter life size. Most ended up converted to C mount for mature movie industry. I guess I'll have to be satisfied with the 200-500. Hopefully the 1.4x will fit without zooming back say to 300 or 400mm. No drop in filter. You've got to be kidding!


Aug 21, 2023 at 11:10 AM
EB-1
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


I think the f/5.6 is a non-starter. It would also be too expensive compared to the Nikon 180-600/6.3.

EBH



Aug 21, 2023 at 05:42 PM
Flowernut
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


i loved the 150-600 lens. The 200-500 with a 1.4 will be 5.6. Maybe I should move to someone other than Canon.


Aug 22, 2023 at 12:52 PM
EB-1
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


It's doubtful that anyone will make a slow L grade MILS lens like that. The Canon 100-500 is it for the foreseeable future.
In a lower grade lens S*ny makes a 200-600 (not GM) and the 180-600 Nikkor (not S) is coming. I've used three of the S*nys a good amount and still have one left. It's fine for the lost cost (and low loss if destroyed in a risky scenario), but not like an L prime or what is expected from the upcoming 200-500/4 L.

EBH



Aug 22, 2023 at 05:50 PM
Flowernut
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


my memory is that back in the day, it cost more adj for inlation than the 200-500 is projected to cost. certainly after century optics got done with it it did. I used it alot. The 4x zoom range was great. The nikon 200-400 was short and 2x. Canon copied that but added the drop in 1.4x which got you out to 560 at 5.6 and roughly 2.8x zoom equivalent. I know several people who put the external 1.4x on it more or less permanently to get a 280-560 so that you had the option of fliping in the built in converter for 400-800 which I didn't use. Frankly, when you consider weight (f5.6 vsi f4)and the higher useable iso's of modern cameras, I don't see 5.6 as an issue. So now we have a 200-500 2.5x at 15K and no drop in filter. I can't help it, I'm disappointed.

I've been waiting a long time so I guess you are right, I'll never see it.



Aug 23, 2023 at 01:36 PM
lighthound
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


EB-1 wrote:
It's doubtful that anyone will make a slow L grade MILS lens like that. The Canon 100-500 is it for the foreseeable future.
EBH


Which is why I finally caved and ordered a new Zemlin short hood for my 500 II. I held off from investing more $$ into this lens as I was hopeful that Canon would soon release a "reasonably" affordable smaller and lighter 500 prime. Unfortunately it's clear now that they aren't, so I'm hunkering down with my sweet baby for the long haul now. In another decade I'll re-evaluate my choices.




Aug 23, 2023 at 02:22 PM
KF
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


DELAYED....


Dec 09, 2023 at 06:23 AM
gkinard1952
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · RF 200-500 F4 Confirmed by CR


For me, if the price is more than the Sony 600mm F/4 , or if the R5 II and R1 limit the use of the older EF lenses. Then no reason for me to stay with Canon.
And since I am not a sports shooter I have no use for a zoom.
I am in Colombia getting dental implants and bone graft's. In six months I return for my teeth... . I want to bring back a good camera and spend some time here shooting birdies...




Dec 09, 2023 at 10:33 AM
1       2       3              6              end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              6              end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.