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Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

RoamingScott
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

I've never heard the name Seerebo before the Z8 presser, but apparently Nikon has been using this since the D5300.

https://nikonrumors.com/2013/12/10/nikon-d5300-trivia-the-body-is-made-out-of-a-new-carbon-fibre-reinforced-thermoplastics-and-you-can-now-change-the-aperture-in-live-view.aspx/

What's the consensus on the bodies that have used this in the past in terms of wear and tear, robustness, sealing, etc?

May 10, 2023 at 07:30 PM

swifty168
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

It's not anything new. Teijin's Sereebo is the name for its carbon fibre reinforced thermoplastic material and has been used as the main body chassis material in the D810, D750 amongst other models. Other manufacturers like Panasonic have used it in some of their video cams too.
Z8 has a magnesium and Sereebo body seemingly btw and note that Nikon states that D780 and D850 have magnesium + carbon fibre body too which likely would be a form of Sereebo.
So Nikon have been using a similar or same combination for some time already. Maybe they have a greater proportion of Sereebo in the Z8 (likely for weight purposes) but the important part is that they utilise the right material property for the right part of construction.
Nikon did go from magnesium (D800) to Sereebo (D810) to Magnesium + carbon fiber (D850) so it looks like this has evolved as the material combination of choice for a good weight/performance balance.

May 10, 2023 at 08:54 PM

Jesse Evans
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

It looks like the D500 uses Sereebo, so I would assume the durability is quite good. The D750, a workhorse that wedding photographers have been using for nearly a decade, is also made from a magnesium alloy top and back plate, and a sereebo monocoque for the rest of the body.

Typically carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastics offer exceptional durability and usually will outperform magnesium alloy with respect to shattering, cracking, or scratching.

May 10, 2023 at 09:03 PM

ahinesdesign
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

If the material was used in the D750, I can say that it's plenty durable. After racking up nearly 200K actuations with my D750 over ~4 years, it still looked like new despite having being regularly abused (dropped numerous times, used inside burning buildings, used during hurricanes, etc.). I am fairly positive that my previous Z6 used Sereebo for some components as well, and that camera took a similar beating.

The only issue I had with the Z6 were the port covers (replaced several times, they tended to swell over time and would not stay closed) and I only sent it in for servicing after it ran over 200K shutter actuations, just as a precaution. The D750 never had a single issue of any kind. So far, my Z9 has been equally as durable, but I have only had it 6 months/80K images captured, and haven't subjected it to the same level of abuse just yet...

May 10, 2023 at 09:15 PM

Oscarsmadness
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

ahinesdesign wrote:
If the material was used in the D750, I can say that it's plenty durable. After racking up nearly 200K actuations with my D750 over ~4 years, it still looked like new despite having being regularly abused (dropped numerous times, used inside burning buildings, used during hurricanes, etc.). I am fairly positive that my previous Z6 used Sereebo for some components as well, and that camera took a similar beating.

After reading this, I'd say YOU are durable... you're taking work that I would flatly turn down.

Of the D700, D3s, and D810 that I have used, I haven't noticed any one model deteriorate more quickly than another. The D3s saw some abuse. The D700 has peeling rubber. The D810 looks great because I baby the thing. I do appreciate the weight savings of the Sereebo in the D810.

May 11, 2023 at 12:53 AM

sjms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

Sereebo has been used by GM for some time on their Carbon Pro model

Save the Earth, REvolutionary & Evolutionary carBOn

Teijin, a well diversified company in Japan. They are the producer.

May 11, 2023 at 03:48 AM

BlackHorsePhot
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

Snap-on uses Sereebo, or a similar carbon fiber reinforced plastic, in their power tools.

Has not been an issue.

May 12, 2023 at 09:02 AM

sjms
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

true. my hand tools from Snap-On for the past 40 years have been steel and some with polymer handles.

Edited on May 12, 2023 at 10:07 AM · View previous versions

May 12, 2023 at 09:43 AM

MikeInPa
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

Professor X uses it to find other mutants.

May 12, 2023 at 09:51 AM

CanadaMark
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

RoamingScott wrote:
I've never heard the name Seerebo before the Z8 presser, but apparently Nikon has been using this since the D5300.

https://nikonrumors.com/2013/12/10/nikon-d5300-trivia-the-body-is-made-out-of-a-new-carbon-fibre-reinforced-thermoplastics-and-you-can-now-change-the-aperture-in-live-view.aspx/

What's the consensus on the bodies that have used this in the past in terms of wear and tear, robustness, sealing, etc?

Seerebo is awesome stuff, and as you seem to have already learned, Nikon has been using it (or variations of it) for a very long time. Similar materials are used in Formula 1 cars and Aerospace applications as well. It is a carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic.

Nikon's non-flagship bodies are usually made out of a blend of magnesium and Seerebo (very entry level bodies are mostly plastic), and the flagship bodies are almost entirely magnesium. There's an argument to be made that the bodies with a hybrid construction are actually more durable, but they still use predominantly magnesium in the flagship bodies for that undeniably 'solid' feeling and it doesn't seem to be an issue. Magnesium is light and ridgid but it's also quite brittle. For example, there were some reports of D800 frames and mirror boxes cracking - when that happened, it affected the alignment of the AF/sensor/mount and the camera was unrepairable. With the D850, Nikon changed that design such that the magnesium mirror box was no longer attached to more structural magnesium on the sides/grip, and instead attached to structural Seerebo panels better equipped to absorb shock from bumps, drops, or other use/abuse.

Usually the hybrid bodies keep the frontal lens mount area magnesium as you want that rigidity for things like precision sensor alignment, and make use of the CRTP elsewhere where durability, weight reduction, or shock absorption might be of higher priority.

May 12, 2023 at 10:18 AM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

CanadaMark wrote:
Seerebo is awesome stuff, and as you seem to have already learned, Nikon has been using it (or variations of it) for a very long time. Similar materials are used in Formula 1 cars and Aerospace applications as well. It is a carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic.

Nikon's non-flagship bodies are usually made out of a blend of magnesium and Seerebo (very entry level bodies are mostly plastic), and the flagship bodies are almost entirely magnesium. There's an argument to be made that the bodies with a hybrid construction are actually more durable, but they still use predominantly magnesium in the...Show more →

This is precisely the feedback I was hoping for, thanks Mark! I have no issue with the use of plastics. Many of the older DSLR bodies that people say "feel like tanks" were partly plastic. I get equating heft to quality, but in the case of the Z9, it just feels needlessly heavy.

May 12, 2023 at 10:20 AM

CanadaMark
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

RoamingScott wrote:
This is precisely the feedback I was hoping for, thanks Mark! I have no issue with the use of plastics. Many of the older DSLR bodies that people say "feel like tanks" were partly plastic. I get equating heft to quality, but in the case of the Z9, it just feels needlessly heavy.

Yup - it's all about using the right material for the right application, and often times that means a mix. The word "plastic" gets a bad reputation when taken at face value, but there is a world of difference between dollar store plastic and the plastics used by NASA, F1, Aviation, etc. and of course Nikon

Here is a very in-depth D850 teardown if you're curious, so you can see which parts are magnesium and which are Seerebo or other plastics. That camera is an absolute tank and has obviously stood the test of time, and I imagine the Z8 is built very similarly minus obviously the mirror box haha:

https://nrcintw.pixnet.net/blog/post/565010666-%e6%97%a5%e6%9c%ac%e9%80%81%e4%bf%ae%e7%9a%84%e6%b3%a1%e6%b0%b4d850%ef%bc%8c%e6%82%bc%e5%bf%b5%e6%97%a5%e6%9c%ac%e9%a6%96%e7%9b%b8%22%e5%ae%89%e5%80%8d%e6%99%89%e4%b8%89%22

May 12, 2023 at 10:26 AM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

CanadaMark wrote:
Yup - it's all about using the right material for the right application, and often times that means a mix. The word "plastic" gets a bad reputation when taken at face value, but there is a world of difference between dollar store plastic and the plastics used by NASA, F1, Aviation, etc. and of course Nikon

Here is a very in-depth D850 teardown if you're curious, so you can see which parts are magnesium and which are Seerebo or other plastics. That camera is an absolute tank and has obviously stood the test of time, and I imagine the Z8...Show more →

Very cool. I'd love to see the PCB in the Z8...I'd imagine the engineering there has changed juuuuuust a tad since then.

May 12, 2023 at 10:30 AM

cope07
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

This is all a very nice reasonable, rationale discussion....so I'll whine a bit

I'm all for them using this material for increased durability/decreased weight BUT, the exterior plastic panels wear so much worse IMO than the painted magnesium. The plastic turns glossy in wear areas and looks cheap and worn out quickly, whereas the paint slowly wears to magnesium which looks much better (and feels better). In the Z8 it looks like basically all of the touch points are Seerebo (or rubber, which is great. Nikon does the best/grippiest rubber).

I'm also a little dumbfounded that body is basically entirely Seerebo (just a mag front plate), and still so heavy/close to the weight of the D850.

May 12, 2023 at 01:32 PM

sjms
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

BlackHorsePhot wrote:
Snap-on uses Sereebo, or a similar carbon fiber reinforced plastic, in their power tools.

Has not been an issue.

they either do or they don't. it not an "or a similar". it's a trademark thing.

May 14, 2023 at 06:35 AM

BlackHorsePhot
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

sjms wrote:
they either do or they don't. it not an "or a similar". it's a trademark thing.

Carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic is not unique to one company.

Sereebo is supposed to be carbon friendly, and recyclable, which likely makes it inferior to other companies' products.

May 14, 2023 at 10:48 AM

sjms
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

never assume.
https://teijin-mobility.com/en/new_tech/sereebo_p/

unique? there are many types of CFRP out there for many uses. assuming inferiority is not necessarily true. appropriate product for the appropriate uses.

May 14, 2023 at 11:06 AM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

sjms wrote:
never assume.
https://teijin-mobility.com/en/new_tech/sereebo_p/

unique? there are many types of CFRP out there for many uses. assuming inferiority is not necessarily true. appropriate product for the appropriate uses.

"creep resistance"

Matt Granger sweating bullets holding his Z8

May 14, 2023 at 11:08 AM

sjms
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

Sereebo was introduced in 2016

May 15, 2023 at 04:52 PM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Seerebo, Nikon's thermoplastic of choice

sjms wrote:
Sereebo was introduced in 2016

Nah, older than that, at least in the camera application world.

https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/seerebo-cfrtp-sheets-saving-the-earth

"The LFT version of Sereebo was first used in 2013 on commercial components for D5300 SLR cameras from Nikon Corp., Tokyo, Japan"

May 15, 2023 at 04:57 PM

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