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The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

wind30
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

osv2 wrote:
z8 is still a porky heavy brick:
a1: 665g
z8: 910g

z8 has lousy battery life, just like the z9:
a1: 530/430
z8: 340/330

flash sync speeds:
a1: 1/400th-1/500th
z8: 1/200th

z8:
-no 30fps raw
-no heat sink on the sensor
-no 3rd-party lens support to speak of
-weak low rez evf
-backup shooting crippled with uhs-II speeds and two different cards, no cfx-a
-nothing comparable to sony real-time tracking subject acquisition
-still no 200-600, can't trust the nikon lens roadmap
-entire z-mount platform crippled with stepper motors and inability to display true wysiwyg dof
etc.

the only good news i see for the z8 is that it's priced where the z9 should have been priced all along, given...Show more →

… the only actual cons to me is heavy weight, battery life and lens selection.

May 10, 2023 at 04:10 PM

johnvanr
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

RoamingScott wrote:
All of these systems are splitting hairs now. The only relevant choice for a decision is which lens ecosystem you want to invest in.

Actually, for me the main thing is whether I enjoy holding the camera. Every brand has excellent lenses, but the question is whether I enjoy shooting with the gear I have.

For some reason, Fuji (with the exception of the X100V and a thumb grip) and Sony don't do it for me. Neither does Leica SL or Panasonic. All of them offer great lenses and great cameras, but just not for me.

May 10, 2023 at 04:13 PM

wind30
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

How good is e to z Mount converters for af?

May 10, 2023 at 04:17 PM

duncang
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

RoamingScott wrote:
The impact is obvious to me...Sony will sell less A1 units than they would have if the Z8 didn't exist.

Sony still leads the way in pure AF, but the Z8 will be a great take anywhere, do anything body just like the A1 is. A body with very few compromises (and some nice usability upgrades vs the A1). Add to that Z mount can shoot F, EF, and FE lenses and autofocus them very well...it's a very compelling mount in addition to the excellent first party glass that now exists.

The biggest question now is...when is the A1ii coming and what...Show more →

Nope, just WHEN, don't care about the cost

May 10, 2023 at 04:19 PM

duncang
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

RoamingScott wrote:
How many times must it be said that Fro's AF tests are some of the worst on Youtube? His methodologies are inconsistent and continually expose his lack of deep understanding of the different models' nuances.

I've even seen him butcher Sony AF settings, which is almost impossible to do, but he managed.

Well if it is the same as the Z9 then yes its AF still sucks - the demonstrations he shows mirrors very much my experience with a Z9 - it's a continual struggle compared to Canon or Sony. Having to switch between different autofocus modes on the fly - I mean come on ! So yesterday.

May 10, 2023 at 04:22 PM

wordfool
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

RoamingScott wrote:
CIPA ratings are garbage. In my experience, the Sony Z battery was always good for 2 days of moderate shooting. Most early previews from the people with a Z8 in hand are saying you'll easily get a day of moderate shooting. If that's true, 2 batteries and a power bank will be more than sufficient (and maybe overkill) for most use cases. Video will be what really kills these little batteries, and it's clear that's why they are offering the grip.

CIPA ratings are probably as good as we're going to get in terms of estimating battery life in a standardized way that enables us to compare. Of course they're not going to match everyone's experience because everyone uses a camera's features differently, for different subjects, with different lenses, and in different climactic conditions. One person's two days of shooting tropical landscapes is another's two hours shooting arctic wildlife.

Beyond perhaps giving some idea of how many spare batteries you should buy with your new camera based on how the CIPA rating compares to your old camera's battery, I doubt anyone pays much attention to CIPA ratings (except perhaps to bash the competition). As you say, spare batteries and powerbanks are cheap and easy to carry in the field so battery life has become among the least of my worries.

Edited on May 10, 2023 at 05:51 PM · View previous versions

May 10, 2023 at 05:09 PM

arbitrage
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

seaSharp wrote:
The lack of pre capture is super weird (at least on bodies with fast sensors as you can't use the shutter during capture then) - hopefully Sony will join the rest of the world in this regard at some point. I'd be surprised (but happy) to see it via a firmware update, though, given past practice.

I'll be surprised too if we get pre-capture via FW. Sony already has the feature in FX line so they know how to do it.

My guess is A9III will have it and then A1II. But Sony is going to make us pay the big upgrade bucks to get it. The wonderful days of A9 FW 5.0 and 6.0 are a thing of the past I think.

May 10, 2023 at 05:19 PM

arbitrage
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

duncang wrote:
Well if it is the same as the Z9 then yes its AF still sucks - the demonstrations he shows mirrors very much my experience with a Z9 - it's a continual struggle compared to Canon or Sony. Having to switch between different autofocus modes on the fly - I mean come on ! So yesterday.

Yep...it is really night and day when you pick up the Z9 vs A1 for fast birds like swallows. I'm actually surprised that Steve Perry finds the two systems on par now for AF. He did pan the Z9 on original FW but now says on latest FW it is neck and neck. That is one of the reasons I bought a Z9 for the 2nd time. I knew within 2 mins it was nowhere close to A1 and really didn't feel much better than my first Z9 on 1.0 FW.

And yes the fact that everyone had to invent this "handoff" AF method is just disappointing. I mean just do like Sony...have the list of AF modes and then have the option to turn on tracking for all of them if one wants to. This is basically what people are doing with the handoff method...using Wide Area and then turning it into full sensor tracking by handing it off to Auto or 3D. On my A1 I just hold in my AF-On button programmed to Tracking On anytime I want my Zone or Flex Spot to track over the sensor after initial acquisition. Nikon users have to jump through hoops for the same thing.

May 10, 2023 at 05:24 PM

molson
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

wind30 wrote:
How good is e to z Mount converters for af?

They're great, until they stop working - which was about one day after I bought it, in my case. I really wanted to use my Sony 24-70mm and 70-200mm GM lenses on the Z9, as they are both noticeably better than the Nikon Z versions.

May 10, 2023 at 06:35 PM

swldstn
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

molson wrote:
They're great, until they stop working - which was about one day after I bought it, in my case. I really wanted to use my Sony 24-70mm and 70-200mm GM lenses on the Z9, as they are both noticeably better than the Nikon Z versions.

Molson,

which did you use? My Megadap ETZ-21 worked pretty well for me but I used it mostly with primes but also tried the FE 200-600 G with it on my Z9 but only for a few days.

May 10, 2023 at 07:07 PM

molson
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

swldstn wrote:
Molson,

which did you use? My Megadap ETZ-21 worked pretty well for me but I used it mostly with primes but also tried the FE 200-600 G with it on my Z9 but only for a few days.

I had the Megadap ETZ21 as well. It worked great one day, and the next day it was totally dead.

May 10, 2023 at 07:33 PM

swldstn
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

molson wrote:
- superior AF
- higher resolution
- better dynamic range
- better metering accuracy
- better AWB accuracy
- better menu system
- better customization options
- better lenses
- smaller and lighter body
- digital audio options
- pro telephoto lenses that are actually available to purchase...

So if you give the A1 all these pluses over the Z8 and think the $2500 addition to the A1’s price is worth it it still makes me feel the Z8’s price is great at $3999. personally having shot with and owning both an A1 and the Z9
I would not really give the A1 any leadership position for 50 vs 45.7 Mpixels, dynamic range, metering accuracy, AWB accuracy. Menu system is really a personal preference and both are usable.
On DR, metering, AWB can you site an article, with a link, that backs up your assertion? Or is it really personal preference which is OK but should be stated as such.

May 10, 2023 at 08:41 PM

osv2
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

Daran wrote:
I believe your A1 weight is without battery, where the Z8 weight includes the battery. A1 weight with battery (and an SD card) is 736g.

i shouldn't have relied on dpr for that info :-/ https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z8-initial-review

it's still a sizeable disparity, equivalent to carrying two additional sony batteries around in your hand all the time.

May 10, 2023 at 08:54 PM

fsi22
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

arbitrage wrote:
Yep...it is really night and day when you pick up the Z9 vs A1 for fast birds like swallows. I'm actually surprised that Steve Perry finds the two systems on par now for AF. He did pan the Z9 on original FW but now says on latest FW it is neck and neck. That is one of the reasons I bought a Z9 for the 2nd time. I knew within 2 mins it was nowhere close to A1 and really didn't feel much better than my first Z9 on 1.0 FW.

And yes the fact that everyone had to invent this...Show more →

Completely agree, the whole needing to hand off works fine until you have fast subjects approaching erratically and you just need to concentrate on keeping up, becomes fiddly and frustrating very fast.

May 10, 2023 at 09:07 PM

molson
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

May 10, 2023 at 09:13 PM

osv2
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

swldstn wrote:

So if you give the A1 all these pluses over the Z8 and think the $2500 addition to the A1’s price is worth it it still makes me feel the Z8’s price is great at $3999. personally having shot with and owning both an A1 and the Z9
I would not really give the A1 any leadership position for 50 vs 45.7 Mpixels, dynamic range, metering accuracy, AWB accuracy. Menu system is really a personal preference and both are usable.
On DR, metering, AWB can you site an article, with a link, that backs up your assertion? Or is it...Show more →

sony is the only brand with a discrete awb sensor, and you are telling us that it's no better than sony sensor awb on the z9, which doesn't make sense to me.

your entire focus in this thread seems to revolve around ignoring the numerous advantages that sony has over z-mount... his point about z8 not having a digital hotshoe is still yet another example of how backwards nikon is; sony, canon, fuji, etc. all have that, it's the industry standard these days.

May 10, 2023 at 09:22 PM

chez
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

swldstn wrote:

So if you give the A1 all these pluses over the Z8 and think the $2500 addition to the A1’s price is worth it it still makes me feel the Z8’s price is great at $3999. personally having shot with and owning both an A1 and the Z9
I would not really give the A1 any leadership position for 50 vs 45.7 Mpixels, dynamic range, metering accuracy, AWB accuracy. Menu system is really a personal preference and both are usable.
On DR, metering, AWB can you site an article, with a link, that backs up your assertion? Or is it...Show more →

All we have to go on is specs. We’ve seen specs quickly fade as people start to actually use the gear. Let’s wait at least until people have used the camera before we start listing out which camera spec is in the lead position.

Personally I love sitting back watching this hyped up “race” as new cameras are released. Gone are the days when cameras were for taking photos…now they are in some kind of race with I’m sure betting on the finals just around the corner.

May 10, 2023 at 09:41 PM

KarmaKramer
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

They all shoots cats very effectively.

May 10, 2023 at 09:45 PM

chez
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

KarmaKramer wrote:
They all shoots cats very effectively.

Yes, but which one can track that 3rd whisker as the cat leaps for the mouse?

May 10, 2023 at 09:48 PM

wind30
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

chez wrote:
All we have to go on is specs. We’ve seen specs quickly fade as people start to actually use the gear. Let’s wait at least until people have used the camera before we start listing out which camera spec is in the lead position.

Personally I love sitting back watching this hyped up “race” as new cameras are released. Gone are the days when cameras were for taking photos…now they are in some kind of race with I’m sure betting on the finals just around the corner.

Exactly. I have 2 a9 and 1 a74. I could theoretically get a flagship a1 instead of three bodies but that would mean I have to swap lens. I bought my a9 one new for $3.3k and used $1.7k. For me, keeping up with the latest bodies involves a huge cost because of the multiple cameras I carry. At the end of the day, I trade off older tech bodies and lower pixel count for the adv of shooting with diffferent lens.

A stacked sensor with a fast eshutter is the most impt thing to me so it is good to see Nikon pushing down the price in this segment. Let’s put it this way, a9 tech is 6 years old. I am pretty sure sony cost of manufacturing a9 is really low today and it’s just because there is no competition, sony keep the prices high…

May 10, 2023 at 10:07 PM

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