Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3              35       36       end
  

The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III

  
 
j4nu
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


I'm not sure they are that comparable.
Z8 is still quite a bit heavier and action shooters will appreciate 50% more fps. On the other hand, A1 still lacks some "basic" by now functionality like focus stacking.
Anyways, I don't see Sony adjusting its pricing based off this release.



May 10, 2023 at 01:38 PM
tuomkok
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


arbitrage wrote:
...However, if A9III is crazy FPS, pre-capture RAW, better EVF (a given), better card slots (a given), better AF (a given) and is only $500 more than Z8 then even if it is only 24-30MP it is certainly the better camera in my book. And way better value than R3 which would be the closest competitor based on MPs.

I think as they stand now the A1 deserves some of its premium price over Z9. But not all of it.
I think most likely Canon decreases R3 price when R1 comes out and puts R1 at the same price as A1.
Hopefully Sony
...Show more

A9III pricing is interesting. Price can make it either a very well selling or a bit niche product.

Sony and Nikon face different problems in current market. Life or death question for Nikon is how to keep their user base in DSLR to mirrorless transition. I perfectly understand aggressive Nikon pricing. But Sony has also every reason to attack, to grab its share of Canon/Nikon current DSLR users switching to mirrorless. Relatively moderately priced 33mpx A9III would be a very tempting camera. If A9III is a 5ke/usd+ 24mpx camera, no matter how fast and and good, it will not sell well.

BTW Pre capture raw is something that should have been in A9 from the beginning. Also A1 should get it via firmware upgrade.



May 10, 2023 at 01:41 PM
molson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


1bwana1 wrote:
Wold you please contact Leica and inform them that they are approaching pricing all wrong. They have some stuff I would like to buy...

Thanks


That's called a "market niche" - a specialized segment that exists largely outside of the mainstream market.




May 10, 2023 at 01:43 PM
molson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


j4nu wrote:
On the other hand, A1 still lacks some "basic" by now functionality like focus stacking.


Just the other day, I was wishing I could focus stack birds in flight or a charging lion... not.



May 10, 2023 at 01:44 PM
Ltgk20
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


I think the Z8 will be a great camera and very much what Nikon needed to release at this time (especialy if they can fill orders reasonably quickly and follow it with the 200-600 lens). Like the Z9 before it, I don't see it as a camera Nikon released to convert Sony and Canon users, but rather to continue to try to retain traditional Nikon users.

From a pricing perspective, I think Sony released the A1 at what was the traditional top tier price point and I also think it caught Canikon off guard with its outright performance. I think the R3 was priced less than Canon would have liked because, while an outstanding mirrorless version of their 1Dx series cameras, it wasn't quite up to the level of thte A1 (mainly in resolution). (I also sometimes wonder if the R3 wasn't the R1 until Sony released the A1. By the time the R1 is released a complete development cycle will have passed since the release of the A1.) However, they had already stabilized the 5D faithful with the very good R5 so they didn't need to respond too aggressively from a pricing perspective to ensure they retained existing customer base. With Nikon, I think they may have been caught a little off guard in how well received the smaller and lighter A1 and R3 bodies were. They also had a different problem than Canon in that the Z6ii and Z7ii, while great cameras, weren't on the same level as the R5 and left many Nikon faithful in the lurch considering a switch to Canon or Sony. I think the aggressive pricing of the Z9 may have been more about attracting those unsatisfied with the Z6ii/Z7ii pair to stretch a bit pricewise and stay with Nikon. I think the aggressive Z8 is another move to try to retain existing customers who either want a smaller bodied Z9, a mirrorless D850 or maybe to stretch a bit from the Z7ii to get it.

It'll be very interesting what happens in round 2. We know the R1 is coming at some point and if it performs at the top of the heap, I suspect it'll be priced in the traditional top of the heap range. If so, I think Sony will hold station with their A1ii pricing. If this happens I wouldn't be surprised to see the Z9ii priced back in the same range as the R1 and A1ii. However, it may be that Nikon will create enough downward price pressure to cause the R1 and A1ii to be priced lower. I suspect that none of the manufacturers really want that and all want to hold the $6500 to $7000 price range for the top tier.



May 10, 2023 at 01:57 PM
swldstn
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


molson wrote:
As in every other industry, the market leaders set the pricing, and everybody else follows... the lower a company is in market share, the more they try to price aggressively versus the leaders. As long as Canon and Sony can sell all the products they produce, their prices will stay high.


Personally if the Z9 is $5500 then the A1 II or even the A1 has added cost of a better viewfinder and added mechanical shutter but then reduced by the added cost of the additional grip and the added cost of penalty of CFexpess Type A over CFexpress Type B in cost per Gigabyte. May also add in price for 30 FPS RAW and reduced until Sony offers pre-capture 😀.

Wold be nice to make a +/- list on what A1 has over the Z9 and what it lacks. Or the Z8 since both the A1 and Z8 can require a battery grip but then what justifies the $2500 more expensive A1. What are getting for that large delta?
1. Better 9 Million dot EVF
2. 30 Fps RAW but only lossy
3. Better battery lifeís
4. - more expensive and slower memory card technology
5.. - lack of pre-capture
6. Ö ?
7. Ö ?



May 10, 2023 at 01:58 PM
Newenglandrocks
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


My takeaways from watching Fro's video is that the AF tracking looks worse than even my OG A9, and that power management didn't improve from the original Z9, yielding a pretty short battery life compared to the competition.

I can't imagine either of those would be deal breakers if you're already into the Nikon system with the Z7 or Z6. If so, I'd definitely upgrade from the Z7 or Z7ii to the Z8 - looks like a total no brainer.

In addition, Nikon is portraying this is as a worthy successor to the D850. That's smart and mostly likely truthful messaging, and I think they'll win a lot of converts to mirrorless who will stay in the Nikon camp.

All of us invested in the Sony ecosystem will simply appreciate the fact that Sony should up their game in their next body releases for the A9iii and A1ii. Personally, I'm happily married a variety of native E-Mount glass from Sony, Sigma and Tamron and looking forwards to dating one of their newest stacked sensor bodies when it becomes available, as I've pretty much satisfied all my lens GAS (at the moment).



May 10, 2023 at 02:12 PM
randomguy
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


A body which pairs much better with the lightweight 400 4.5 and 800 pf. Stacked sensor at much lower prices.

While I think the A1 looks better for stills still, the z8 is way ahead on video. So I think it is unlikely that the much higher price of the A1 is currently justified.

If I were starting today I think the Nikon ecosystem just got a whole lot more attractive with the z8 along with the choice of lightweight tele primes or the big guns with built in TCs.



May 10, 2023 at 02:13 PM
j4nu
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


swldstn wrote:
Personally if the Z9 is $5500 then the A1 II or even the A1 has added cost of a better viewfinder and added mechanical shutter but then reduced by the added cost of the additional grip and the added cost of penalty of CFexpess Type A over CFexpress Type B in cost per Gigabyte. May also add in price for 30 FPS RAW and reduced until Sony offers pre-capture 😀.

Wold be nice to make a +/- list on what A1 has over the Z9 and what it lacks. Or the Z8 since both the A1 and Z8 can require a
...Show more

I guess it depends if you treat A1/Z8 as an action cam first or just one body for everything.
In the former case, Z8 is not even close IMHO. In the latter, they are indeed competitive.
If the batter life ratings are comparable, it's a total dealbreaker for me. To be honest, I'm not super happy with A1 battery usage, so the thought of carrying 3 Nikon spares totally turns me off.



May 10, 2023 at 02:22 PM
seaSharp
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


tuomkok wrote:
A9III pricing is interesting. Price can make it either a very well selling or a bit niche product.

Sony and Nikon face different problems in current market. Life or death question for Nikon is how to keep their user base in DSLR to mirrorless transition. I perfectly understand aggressive Nikon pricing. But Sony has also every reason to attack, to grab its share of Canon/Nikon current DSLR users switching to mirrorless. Relatively moderately priced 33mpx A9III would be a very tempting camera. If A9III is a 5ke/usd+ 24mpx camera, no matter how fast and and good, it will not sell well.

BTW
...Show more

The lack of pre capture is super weird (at least on bodies with fast sensors as you can't use the shutter during capture then) - hopefully Sony will join the rest of the world in this regard at some point. I'd be surprised (but happy) to see it via a firmware update, though, given past practice.



May 10, 2023 at 02:28 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

RoamingScott
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


j4nu wrote:
I guess it depends if you treat A1/Z8 as an action cam first or just one body for everything.
In the former case, Z8 is not even close IMHO. In the latter, they are indeed competitive.
If the batter life ratings are comparable, it's a total dealbreaker for me. To be honest, I'm not super happy with A1 battery usage, so the thought of carrying 3 Nikon spares totally turns me off.


CIPA ratings are garbage. In my experience, the Sony Z battery was always good for 2 days of moderate shooting. Most early previews from the people with a Z8 in hand are saying you'll easily get a day of moderate shooting. If that's true, 2 batteries and a power bank will be more than sufficient (and maybe overkill) for most use cases. Video will be what really kills these little batteries, and it's clear that's why they are offering the grip.



May 10, 2023 at 02:28 PM
molson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


swldstn wrote:
Wold be nice to make a +/- list on what A1 has over the Z9 and what it lacks. Or the Z8 since both the A1 and Z8 can require a battery grip but then what justifies the $2500 more expensive A1. What are getting for that large delta?
1. Better 9 Million dot EVF
2. 30 Fps RAW but only lossy
3. Better battery lifeís
4. - more expensive and slower memory card technology
5.. - lack of pre-capture
6. Ö ?
7. Ö ?


- superior AF
- higher resolution
- better dynamic range
- better metering accuracy
- better AWB accuracy
- better menu system
- better customization options
- better lenses
- smaller and lighter body
- digital audio options
- pro telephoto lenses that are actually available to purchase...



May 10, 2023 at 02:33 PM
j4nu
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


RoamingScott wrote:
CIPA ratings are garbage. In my experience, the Sony Z battery was always good for 2 days of moderate shooting. Most early previews from the people with a Z8 in hand are saying you'll easily get a day of moderate shooting. If that's true, 2 batteries and a power bank will be more than sufficient (and maybe overkill) for most use cases. Video will be what really kills these little batteries, and it's clear that's why they are offering the grip.


You're probably talking about previous Sony gen, there's no way you'll get 2 days of shooting on A1 with Z battery . I find CIPA battery showing the trend at least, if not that accurate.



May 10, 2023 at 02:35 PM
RoamingScott
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


j4nu wrote:
You're probably talking about previous Sony gen, there's no way you'll get 2 days of shooting on A1 with Z battery . I find CIPA battery showing the trend at least, if not that accurate.


Fully depends on the use case...if you're doing BIF, absolutely, no battery is lasting a full day. Doing landscape and turning the camera off between shots? 2 days can be easy on almost any battery.

I do know the A1 is more power hungry even in idle, just like the Z8/Z9 are in use. CIPA as you say is probably most useful if looked at as a trend line.



May 10, 2023 at 02:40 PM
Butterfingers
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


Competition is great when I saw the specs and the price I thought it was a good deal for those who are in the Nikon system or would like to move to Nikon. Nikon also has a very good selection of their own mirrorless lenses and 3rd party offerings from Tamron and Sigma, so we know that more will follow in the future.

The Sony A7RV specs say it has a much higher resolution and magnification viewfinder, but in practice the lower resolution Nikon Viewfinders are really good, dare I say better than the higher megapixel Sony viewfinders. I am not sure what it is, but it's a closer experience to using a DSLR, less of the drawbacks of mirroless with all the upsides.

I really wish Sony would implement the MF assist/MF focus confirmation box that Nikon and Canon have on their mirroless cameras.



May 10, 2023 at 02:51 PM
RoamingScott
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


The Nikon EVF experience is seamless and 100% consistent. There are no slowdowns or down-rezzes based on mode or environment. It also has one of the brightest, if not THE brightest (can't remember) screens. Everything about it feels natural and makes for a great experience over time.

That said, I'm sure reviewing files on the A7R5/A1 is a dream compared.



May 10, 2023 at 03:16 PM
molson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


seaSharp wrote

The lack of pre capture is super weird (at least on bodies with fast sensors as you can't use the shutter during capture then) - hopefully Sony will join the rest of the world in this regard at some point. I'd be surprised (but happy) to see it via a firmware update, though, given past practice.


The lack of RAW pre-capture in the Z8/Z9 is super weird. If all you want are JPEG files, why not just roll video and do frame grabs... but then I guess that's actually what the Nikon cameras are doing.



May 10, 2023 at 03:23 PM
Daran
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


osv2 wrote:
z8 is still a porky heavy brick:
a1: 665g
z8: 910g

I believe your A1 weight is without battery, where the Z8 weight includes the battery. A1 weight with battery (and an SD card) is 736g.



May 10, 2023 at 03:38 PM
liggy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


Iím happy that Nikon shooters have the option of the Z8 now. On paper it looks like the best bang for the buck if one is starting from scratch on specs.

In my case at least - Sony is reaping the benefit of being first with the A1. Iím so deep in FE lenses that it would take a lot more than an attractive price and a roughly equivalent feature set.

Zero percent chance Iíd convert to Nikon at this point. It would take something revolutionary like a global shutter or organic sensor to get me to go through the pain of switching.

Certainly not going to ditch my A1 because they havenít added focus stacking yet.

Edited on May 10, 2023 at 03:49 PM · View previous versions



May 10, 2023 at 03:47 PM
dcisive
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III


I've owned nearly all brands over the last 25 years. They all have their strengths, and some weaknesses. At this time I would say without hesitation, category wise, Nikkor lenses are the finest period. Canon has the fastest, stickiest most accurate focus setup. Sony sensors have the finest dynamic range. What so many seem to forget in their arguments, is that it makes a lot more sense to pick the camera that best meets a persons personal requirements/need. A portrait photographer need not purchase a camera nor lenses that a wildlife or birder would. A landscape photographer won't buy a sports camera etc. Over the years my needs have changed. At one time I was almost exclusively a wedding/portrait shooter. Now retired I prefer static wildife and landscapes, a reason I (sensibly I feel) chose a A7RV after several other cameras being worked with over the last several years.

Everyone will choose what they will hopefully on how it meets their needs. I for one, currently have NO need of a stacked sensor with it's specific advantages. I even shoot electronic shutter, which some turkeys would love to argue can't be effectively used on the likes of a A7RV. Fooey.......I never saw any rolling shutter on an OM1, R5 nor my current A7RV. But then I'm not shooting the subjects that excite that issue. Anyone can choose what they will. Just make sure it meets their needs and doesn't have issues with their shooting style BEFORE you commit.



May 10, 2023 at 03:49 PM
1      
2
       3              35       36       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3              35       36       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.