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Archive 2023 · Interesting Leica Survey

  
 
1bwana1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Interesting Leica Survey


I received an email from Leica today asking me to participate in a survey regarding future Leica lenses.

One thing I found interesting are a number of questions asking whether I would be open to buying Leica designed and branded lenses that were manufactured in Japan rather than Germany if they were available at a big discount from the German prices. I am thinking the most likely contract source for these lenses would be Cosina. I would have no problem buying such lenses myself.

What do you guys think?



Apr 21, 2023 at 10:17 AM
RustyRus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Interesting Leica Survey


Thanks for wasting 20 minutes of my morning...HAHA I just took the survey.

I would love to see some very compact 35/28mm designs with Leica's fit and finish put on them. Take the 28 Ultron for example.

If a lens like that came out with the fit and finish of Leica and a great optical formula, made in Japan, sign me up please.




Apr 21, 2023 at 10:41 AM
wdshuck
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Interesting Leica Survey


I'd be open to it as well. I find it a bit surprising though, since I thought Portugal was their "lower cost" manufacturing location.

I probably will still target my most used lenses as the "German" versions, but I also buy those used For the other focal lengths, more competition is good.



Apr 21, 2023 at 12:40 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Interesting Leica Survey


1bwana1 wrote:
I received an email from Leica today asking me to participate in a survey regarding future Leica lenses.

One thing I found interesting are a number of questions asking whether I would be open to buying Leica designed and branded lenses that were manufactured in Japan rather than Germany if they were available at a big discount from the German prices. I am thinking the most likely contract source for these lenses would be Cosina. I would have no problem buying such lenses myself.

What do you guys think?


+1. Wouldn't mind buying a Japanese manufactured Leica lens if heavily discounted since I don't intend to have it as collector item. I doubt it will ever happen though since it does not fit into the luxury brand agenda of Leica. The question likely can be seen as intent to get as many "no" responses as possible to justify German manufacturing by virgin hands... .

Already at this point many regular Leica users buy e. g. CV, TTArtisan, and 7Artisans M-lenses either in addition or as replacement for much higher priced Leica M lenses. Let's say Leica would manufacture some M lenses in Japan, I doubt even then that they would sell them for a price similar to CV lenses.

No matter what, Leica is and will still best to be purchased used IMO.



Apr 21, 2023 at 01:32 PM
burningheart
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Interesting Leica Survey


1bwana1 wrote:
What do you guys think?


Since I didn't get an email the Rock's famous quote applies "It doesn't matter what I think"

Though seriously once my 35 FLE II arrives I consider my Leica M kit complete. I don't see myself actively pursuing any other lenses. Sure it would be nice to get a 0.95, 35 APO, 50 APO, 75 APO and the 28-35-50 at a deeply discounted price but it would have to be a big discount to move the needle for me as I like the kit I now have. Though never say never.



Apr 21, 2023 at 01:59 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Interesting Leica Survey


I'm O.K. with Leica lenses Japan, but buying Leica lenses at a discount is a big no-no, of course.


Apr 21, 2023 at 03:49 PM
flash
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Interesting Leica Survey


Weren’t the Summarits made in Japan? Or were they Portugal lenses?

Leica screwed up big time when they stopped selling them. It was an open door invitation for CV and others to fill that hole. Leica thought that we’d all just buy Summiluxes. Instead we bought Ultrons.

Mind you this could just be about L mount lenses….. They screwed up there also with the CL.

Gordon



Apr 21, 2023 at 04:06 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Interesting Leica Survey


1bwana1 wrote:
I received an email from Leica today asking me to participate in a survey regarding future Leica lenses.

One thing I found interesting are a number of questions asking whether I would be open to buying Leica designed and branded lenses that were manufactured in Japan rather than Germany if they were available at a big discount from the German prices. I am thinking the most likely contract source for these lenses would be Cosina. I would have no problem buying such lenses myself.

What do you guys think?


On my survey, that question was about SL lenses, not M. And I think it's part of their effort to put a quantifiable value on "Made in Germany" more than it was fishing for a true switch to Japanese manufacture.

Some of the "this versus that" lens questions I liked:

















Apr 21, 2023 at 04:10 PM
OwlsEyes
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Interesting Leica Survey


I took the survey this morning as well. I recently purchased a Leica SL from the Leica Store in San Francisco.
I could be wrong, but I suspect that their Japanese "manufacturer" would be Sigma. To the point, would L-mount users be willing to pay a small premium for Leica "finished" products made by Sigma.
I said yes to this, as I am looking at eventually adding the two re-badged Sigma lenses to my kit. I am currently using three DG DN series I lenses with my SL. specifically the 24 f3.5, 45 f2.8, and 90 f2.8. These lenses outperform their price point by a large margin.
The SL system is in dire need of some small lenses, a macro lens, and a fixed focal length telephoto lens. If Sigma builds them to Leica specifications, I'd be a buyer.

bruce



Apr 21, 2023 at 04:55 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Interesting Leica Survey


flash wrote:
Weren’t the Summarits made in Japan? Or were they Portugal lenses?

Leica screwed up big time when they stopped selling them. It was an open door invitation for CV and others to fill that hole. Leica thought that we’d all just buy Summiluxes. Instead we bought Ultrons.

Mind you this could just be about L mount lenses….. They screwed up there also with the CL.

Gordon


I don't think so. The Voigtländer lenses would have taken some market share whatever Leica had done. But they have a different color reproduction and rendering, so buying a Leica camera with only Voigtländer lenses would be a strange choice, but adding a cheaper Voigtländer lens for a focal length you don't use that often would cause color rendering problems. I have a Voigtländer Nokton 35mm S.C. which has its very own color rendering and flare, but otherwise I don't combine both lenses anymore. While I regret Leica's choice to discontinue the Summarits, which were the smallest lenses for the Leica system, I think it's because they figured that most of their customers were just waiting for an opportunity to spend a couple of grands more for each lens - so they came up with the 50mm and 35mm f/2 Asph.




Apr 21, 2023 at 05:11 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Interesting Leica Survey


OwlsEyes wrote:
I could be wrong, but I suspect that their Japanese "manufacturer" would be Sigma.


Could be ... but, I'd venture Panasonic. I mean, there is already the PL lenses in play (also, part of the Alliance).
Which, btw ... the little 15/1.7 PL in m43 was my gateway into Lecia. I figured if it was as good as it was, then I wondered what a "real Leica" would be like.

I think the corporate relationships with Panasonic connect more strongly to Leica, than Sigma does ... just my extrapolation from how different dots connected over the years.

If I were shooting SL glass, then it would be not much consideration about Leica "made in Japan", since putting a "Leica" Panasonic lens on the L mount, already exists. It's a micro-step between the two ... mostly just branding would be my guess.

M lenses ... otoh ... I don't see them assigning them to be manufactured anywhere else. I figure they've had enough experience with that (Canada / Portugal), that they'll stand pat on Germany. But, that's my .02 that's almost worth .000000000000000001.



Apr 21, 2023 at 05:46 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Interesting Leica Survey


highdesertmesa wrote:
On my survey, that question was about SL lenses, not M. And I think it's part of their effort to put a quantifiable value on "Made in Germany" more than it was fishing for a true switch to Japanese manufacture.

Some of the "this versus that" lens questions I liked:


It must be keyed to what your customer profile with Leica has in it. I have two M lenses, and my M10-P, and M11 registered with Leica. My copy of the survey was mostly about M lenses.



Apr 21, 2023 at 05:52 PM
1bwana1
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Interesting Leica Survey


AcuteShadows wrote:
I'm O.K. with Leica lenses Japan, but buying Leica lenses at a discount is a big no-no, of course.


So the questions that dealt with location of manufacturing were basically two identiaclyy specified lenses one with "Made in Germany", and one with "Made in Japan" labels. The Made in Germany lenses were about double the Made in Japan lenses in the listed price. The question was, which one would you be more likely to buy.



Apr 21, 2023 at 05:56 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Interesting Leica Survey


My Leica R 35-70 f4 ROM was excellent. Made in Japan. I wonder who made it for Leica? I'm guessing either Sigma or Minolta?


Apr 21, 2023 at 07:38 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Interesting Leica Survey


1bwana1 wrote:
It must be keyed to what your customer profile with Leica has in it. I have two M lenses, and my M10-P, and M11 registered with Leica. My copy of the survey was mostly about M lenses.


It's keyed to the gear you select that you own in one of the first questions.



Apr 21, 2023 at 08:03 PM
ocean2059
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Interesting Leica Survey


Desmolicious wrote:
My Leica R 35-70 f4 ROM was excellent. Made in Japan. I wonder who made it for Leica? I'm guessing either Sigma or Minolta?


The Leica R 35-70/4 ROM and 80-200/4 were made in Japan by Kyocera, the parent company for Contax C/Y, 645, G and N series camera and lenses. I believe that the earlier version of R 35-70/3.5 and the R 70-200 lens were made by Minolta, and the R 28-70/3.5-4.5 was made by Sigma.

Edited on Apr 22, 2023 at 06:49 AM · View previous versions



Apr 21, 2023 at 08:08 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Interesting Leica Survey


The 35-70 3.5 was made by Minolta, and really is excellent. Judging by the Minolta version that I have!


Apr 22, 2023 at 12:58 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Interesting Leica Survey


There's also Tamron... Aren't some of their lenses showing up with other brands? Nikon? Pentax? Also the Tokina 50/1.4 was rebranded by Pentax, IIRC. Who makes Zeiss Batis lenses? I'm not sure Cosina does anything for other parties with AF.

I'm curious what a hypothetical 35/2.8 Elmarit-M brings to the table over the discontinued 35/2.5 or f/2.4 Summarit versions? Leica mainstream legitimacy rather than 'inexpensive and unwanted?'

Weren't the TL series lenses made in Japan? Isn't this also true for some of the SL lenses (prior to the recent bunch of rebadges)?



Apr 22, 2023 at 01:50 AM
SlowDriver
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Interesting Leica Survey


rscheffler wrote:
Weren't the TL series lenses made in Japan? Isn't this also true for some of the SL lenses (prior to the recent bunch of rebadges)?


5 out of 7 TL-lenses were made in Japan. The Summilux-TL 35mm and the APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 60mm were made in Germany (or at least have the label).

All SL lenses (prior to the rebadging of Sigma and Panasonic lenses) have the Made in Germany label although the zooms almost certainly were not made by Leica



Apr 22, 2023 at 07:02 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Interesting Leica Survey


AcuteShadows wrote:
I don't think so. The Voigtländer lenses would have taken some market share whatever Leica had done. But they have a different color reproduction and rendering, so buying a Leica camera with only Voigtländer lenses would be a strange choice, but adding a cheaper Voigtländer lens for a focal length you don't use that often would cause color rendering problems. I have a Voigtländer Nokton 35mm S.C. which has its very own color rendering and flare, but otherwise I don't combine both lenses anymore. While I regret Leica's choice to discontinue the Summarits, which were the smallest lenses for the
...Show more

Main reason why Leica took the Summarit lenses off their list is due to the push into the luxury brand market. The very good Summarit lenses didn't fit the bill here since they were purposely released as entry-level lenses with lower price tags. Their problem was that they were too good for the price, and made many users not willing to upgrade after having one or several Summarit lenses. I don't believe the reasoning at all that users wanted to pay $$$$ more for a bit faster Summicron or even Summilux lens. But yes, it is true that Leica must have seen in house competition of the Summarit lenses with their Summicron f/2 lenses. I own and use the 35/2.4 Summarit-M lens, and it is a fantastic performer and not worse than my 35/2.0 Summicron lens regarding performance. That it wasn't lower demand of the Summarit lens line can be nicely seen in the much higher price tags used Summarit lenses now go for.



Apr 22, 2023 at 09:51 AM
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