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Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

RoamingScott
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p.10 #1 · p.10 #1 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Tried Denoise/Enhance on some older Fuji RAF files, and the "wormification" was terrible. I should try again with sharpening down to 0 first and see if that helps.

Apr 27, 2023 at 10:58 AM

jhapeman
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p.10 #2 · p.10 #2 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

RoamingScott wrote:
Tried Denoise/Enhance on some older Fuji RAF files, and the "wormification" was terrible. I should try again with sharpening down to 0 first and see if that helps.

I never used Fuji, but I can say that I've gone back as far as 2003 to old Nikon D2H NEF files and Canon 1Ds Mark II files and it really does a great job. Across the board though I like the results with sharpening turned to zero first and then selective sharpening after denoise.

Apr 27, 2023 at 11:15 AM

RoamingScott
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p.10 #3 · p.10 #3 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Just tested by starting with 0 sharpness on a RAF and the resulting image is much nicer than having the default sharpening applied at the start. Good to know. Also, lord I hate Fuji RAF files

Apr 27, 2023 at 11:25 AM

Zenon Char
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p.10 #4 · p.10 #4 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

jhapeman wrote:
I don't think it's a bug at all. They state that the DeNoise includes their "Raw Details" algorithm, which is essentially a type of sharpening baked into the Bayer (or Fuji X-Trans) filter demosaicing process. Because it can also carry over any adjustments you've already done to the file, if you pre-sharpen it will leave that in place but it does appear to apply the sharpening to the file before doing the other steps. I think that's intentional on their part, although I can see it being confusing in some way.

Personally I find that I have now changed my...Show more →

It very well may be intentional. The only reason I brought this up is it is not explained very well. There are users that may not be into these things as much. When you import the sharpening default is 40. If they send it to Denoise they may push further than required. Past 75 or so it does start to look plasticky. You can see in my example how much different the file looks in Denoise with sharpening at 0 and 50.

How do I use it?

Using Denoise is easy:

Click the new “Denoise” button in the Detail panel to bring up the Enhance dialog.
Adjust the Amount slider to taste.
Press the Enhance button.

Source

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/04/18/denoise-demystified

Apr 27, 2023 at 11:26 AM

Zenon Char
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p.10 #5 · p.10 #5 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

RoamingScott wrote:
Just tested by starting with 0 sharpness on a RAF and the resulting image is much nicer than having the default sharpening applied at the start. Good to know. Also, lord I hate Fuji RAF files

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52851398235_699b298fd9_o.jpg

Thanks for the input.

Apr 27, 2023 at 11:28 AM

PintPlease
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p.10 #6 · p.10 #6 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Bruce n Philly - I've got an AMD Radeon RX 6650 XT (8gb) graphics card on my AMD machine (running a Ryzen 5 3600 CPU). My Canon R5 RAW files are taking 40-45 seconds to de-noise.

Apr 27, 2023 at 12:56 PM

jhapeman
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p.10 #7 · p.10 #7 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

PintPlease wrote:
Bruce n Philly - I've got an AMD Radeon RX 6650 XT (8gb) graphics card on my AMD machine (running a Ryzen 5 3600 CPU). My Canon R5 RAW files are taking 40-45 seconds to de-noise.

My 2019 Mac Pro has a Radeon Pro 6800X Duo in it, but it still takes about 27 seconds an 61mpx A7RIV file. Not quite as fast as the Mac Studio Ultra.

Apr 27, 2023 at 02:27 PM

Bruce n Philly
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p.10 #8 · p.10 #8 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Thanx ... I could not find any information on Radeon cards and LR Denoise AI.

Not sure what I will do... if anything... yet. Big price tag for what? I don't see the benefit of LR over Topaz as I am paid up on my Topaz.

Hmm.....

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Apr 27, 2023 at 03:40 PM

Zenon Char
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p.10 #9 · p.10 #9 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Bruce n Philly wrote:
Thanx ... I could not find any information on Radeon cards and LR Denoise AI.

Not sure what I will do... if anything... yet. Big price tag for what? I don't see the benefit of LR over Topaz as I am paid up on my Topaz.

Hmm.....

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Several years ago I learned the hard way with Topaz apps that AI eats VRAM. When I got a new iMac I made sure I had enough. It still takes 45 seconds but so did Photo AO and PureRaw 3. My lowly MacBook Air with the M1 chip is faster.

Apr 27, 2023 at 04:45 PM

jaygould
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p.10 #10 · p.10 #10 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Trying it out now. Whether I use DxO PureRaw or LR, they both take about 35 seconds per image (20mp Canon R6). I have not tried Topaz so I can't say whether it is faster or slower.

PC is a few years old. AMD Ryzen 7, RTX 3050 12gb, 32gb DDR4 Ram.

Apr 27, 2023 at 05:21 PM

Zenon Char
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p.10 #11 · p.10 #11 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

jaygould wrote:
Trying it out now. Whether I use DxO PureRaw or LR, they both take about 35 seconds per image (20mp Canon R6). I have not tried Topaz so I can't say whether it is faster or slower.

PC is a few years old. AMD Ryzen 7, RTX 3050 12gb, 32gb DDR4 Ram.

Photo AI will likely be about the same. There standalone apps about half

Apr 27, 2023 at 05:47 PM

Bruce n Philly
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p.10 #12 · p.10 #12 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

An argument for waiting to buy a new video card... something to ponder.

I suspect there is a huge population of LR users with older generation video cards such as me with a GTX card (or older) and are having performance issues with denoise AI. The RTX generation contained innovations that LR denoise AI uses for performance.

So, what do I and others do? Purchase an RTX card or wait?

The cheapest RTX card I can find is the RTX 2060 for $349. Correct? Not saying this is best card for denoise AI, but a data point.

Issues IMO:

1 - Denoise AI is pretty good but so is Topaz Denoise AI... for me both are equal in results
2 - Given Adobes history, I suspect they will increase the performance of their new feature over the next say 6 months
3 - I am already paid up on my Topaz support for the next 10 months
4 - Topaz is massively faster than LR and LR Denoise AI is pretty much unusable for me given my older card.
5 - This article from Tom's Hardware notes that new releases from Nvidia and market changes (bit coin collapse, used cards flooding the market, prices coming down) should play into my decision to purchase a new card... waiting will get you a much more powerful card for your money.
6 - There is no other application I use compels me to upgrade my card

So.... I am going to wait to buy a new card and continue to use Topaz.

Read up here: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4000

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Apr 28, 2023 at 07:15 AM

Bruce n Philly
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p.10 #13 · p.10 #13 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

If anyone is considering buying a new card, I find the Passmark benchmarks to be very valuable... you can kinda find value sweet spots.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/directCompute.html

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Apr 28, 2023 at 06:43 PM

EB-1
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p.10 #14 · p.10 #14 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Those are what Adobe has suggested as I mentioned before. I do wonder now if the AI acceleratio has changed the weighting. For example would a 40 series card that has the same compute results as a 30 series actually be faster in PS/LR AI?

EBH

Edited on Apr 28, 2023 at 07:09 PM · View previous versions

Apr 28, 2023 at 07:08 PM

jhapeman
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p.10 #15 · p.10 #15 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Bruce n Philly wrote:
If anyone is considering buying a new card, I find the Passmark benchmarks to be very valuable... you can kinda find value sweet spots.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/directCompute.html

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Ehh, synthetic benchmarks like that are pretty useless when buying for specific tasks. It's better to focus on performance benchmarks for the actual tasks you intend to use a card for. When it comes to photo editing, you can check out the benchmarks for Photoshop and Lightroom that Puget does on the PC side, although now that Apple Silicon is out Puget has yet to update the benchmarks (IMO because they have zero incentive to do so and the results wouldn't make their high-end PC offerings look all that great in terms of value, but I digress).

Apr 28, 2023 at 07:09 PM

EB-1
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p.10 #16 · p.10 #16 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Has no website run comparison tests with different nVidia RTX cards in PS/LR to determine the relative performance in "AI" accelerated functions? It should not be too difficult.

EBH

Apr 28, 2023 at 07:19 PM

Cnyphotoguy
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p.10 #17 · p.10 #17 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Anyone found a reliable site listing the number of Tensor cores on different RTX cards? even the Nvidia website doesn't seem to state anything but generation.

Apr 28, 2023 at 07:49 PM

mcbroomf
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p.10 #18 · p.10 #18 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

I did it manually, I was going to add all the other attributes but this is as far as I've got

GPU Tensor cores
2060 240
2060 Super 272
2070 288
2070 Super 320
2080 368
2080 Super 384
2080 Ti 544
3060 112
3060 Ti 152
3070 184
3070 Ti 192
3080 280
3080 Ti 192
3090 328
3090 Ti 336
4070 240
4070 Ti 184
4080 304
4080 Ti 440
4090 512
4090 Ti 568

PS. Please feel free to 2x check and let me know if I have a typo or transferred the wrong number somewhere

Apr 28, 2023 at 08:36 PM

hoodlum90
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p.10 #19 · p.10 #19 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

mcbroomf wrote:
I did it manually, I was going to add all the other attributes but this is as far as I've got

GPU Tensor cores
2060 240
2060 Super 272
2070 288
2070 Super 320
2080 368
2080 Super 384
2080 Ti 544
3060 112
3060 Ti 152
3070 184
3070 Ti 192
3080 280
3080 Ti 192
3090 328
3090 Ti 336
4070 240
4070 Ti 184
4080 304
4080 Ti 440
4090 512
4090 Ti 568

PS. Please feel free to 2x check and let me know if I have a typo or transferred the wrong number somewhere

I wonder how the Tensor Cores compare between card generations. I would think the 240 Tensor Cores in the 4070 would be faster than the 240 Tensor Cores in the 2060.

Apr 28, 2023 at 09:04 PM

Zenon Char
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p.10 #20 · p.10 #20 · Lightroom Classic AI Denoise (12.3)

Kinda flogging a deal horse but I was just watching some videos for more info and came across this. Minute 3:10. He also says to set sharpening to 0.

Apr 29, 2023 at 12:20 AM

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