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Canon R8 Initial Impressions
  
 
Jman13
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


I would also add that shooting cRAW makes a lot of sense for fast burst rates. Gets a few more shots. I shot some birds at 20fps and if using normal burst behavior with short small bursts with small pauses, I never ran out of buffer. Obviously you can’t just hold the button down willy nilly, but I found it to be a pretty healthy buffer for a budget camera.


Apr 22, 2023 at 12:22 PM
chicago8c
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Took the R8 to a local Chicago science museum that has terrible lighting and was often a mess for the RP w/focus in the past. I had the RF 35/1.8 and 85/2. The autofocus is so much better than the RP. Even with the not-super-fast RF 85/2, it was quick, confident, and did a great job focusing on eyes. Some examples:

RF 85:

April232023Exports-2 by chicago8c, on Flickr


April232023Exports-18 by chicago8c, on Flickr

RF 35:

April232023Exports-13 by chicago8c, on Flickr


April232023Exports-30 by chicago8c, on Flickr

On this one they sprinted from behind me, I spun around and blindly shot, at too slow of a shutter speed, but it still got something fun:

April232023Exports-38 by chicago8c, on Flickr
Apr 25, 2023 at 09:18 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Jman13 wrote:
I would also add that shooting cRAW makes a lot of sense for fast burst rates. Gets a few more shots. I shot some birds at 20fps and if using normal burst behavior with short small bursts with small pauses, I never ran out of buffer. Obviously you can’t just hold the button down willy nilly, but I found it to be a pretty healthy buffer for a budget camera.

With a 250MB/s v90 sd card, at 40fps, I got more than 50 shots before stuttering and the buffer cleared in about 10s. With r8, a slower card and I hit >25s to clear- unacceptable. For most people, using a v90 card, the buffer is adequate at 40fps and great at 20fps, as long as you don't get lazy with your shutter finger and keep shooting to fill the buffer.




Apr 26, 2023 at 01:36 PM
Jman13
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Agreed. I think for anyone expecting to shoot action with any modern camera, fast cards are needed.

Scott Stoness wrote:
With a 250MB/s v90 sd card, at 40fps, I got more than 50 shots before stuttering and the buffer cleared in about 10s. With r8, a slower card and I hit >25s to clear- unacceptable. For most people, using a v90 card, the buffer is adequate at 40fps and great at 20fps, as long as you don't get lazy with your shutter finger and keep shooting to fill the buffer.





Apr 26, 2023 at 01:52 PM
paulfeng
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Jman13 wrote:
<snip>

3) Biggest AF change in my opinion is the addition of the 'Whole area tracking Servo AF', which gives a very similar operation to Sony's AI Tracking operation, where your focus point starts, locks on, and it tracks it anywhere in the frame. This is the default behavior in Servo AF, though it can of course be toggled off. This is the one thing I missed from my Sony cameras when switching to Canon, and I'll be excited to see how well it works. I believe this is on the R3 and R6 II, but I haven't used those cameras....Show more →

I don't understand how this is different from what the R5 does - could you please elaborate? (I believe you, but I just don't get it.)
Apr 26, 2023 at 01:56 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Jman13 wrote:
I would also add that shooting cRAW makes a lot of sense for fast burst rates. Gets a few more shots. I shot some birds at 20fps and if using normal burst behavior with short small bursts with small pauses, I never ran out of buffer. Obviously you can’t just hold the button down willy nilly, but I found it to be a pretty healthy buffer for a budget camera.

Scott Stoness wrote:
With a 250MB/s v90 sd card, at 40fps, I got more than 50 shots before stuttering and the buffer cleared in about 10s. With r8, a slower card and I hit >25s to clear- unacceptable. For most people, using a v90 card, the buffer is adequate at 40fps and great at 20fps, as long as you don't get lazy with your shutter finger and keep shooting to fill the buffer.

Jman13 wrote:
Agreed. I think for anyone expecting to shoot action with any modern camera, fast cards are needed.


Not surprisingly this is vey similar to the R6II. With regular RAW the buffer is in the 60 images range (depends a lot on ISO and image content). cRAW pretty much doubles the number of images and is what I found I had to use to make 40fps even usable for sports (because I wanted to shoot some flavor of RAW rather than jpeg). Indeed, a UHS-II v90 card was essential for quickly clearing the buffer.

While probably not the place for the R8, I'd love to see Canon adopt Leica's recent move to include some degree of super fast internal storage. I.e. 64GB in the M11 and 256GB in the M11M. Even if it was 'only' 8, 16 or 32GB, it would be a great option to have as a 'holding' area for images that could be backed up to conventional dual-card storage during downtimes. Unfortunately it appears internal buffer depth continues to be a feature used to differentiate products...
Apr 26, 2023 at 02:43 PM
Jman13
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


paulfeng wrote:
I don't understand how this is different from what the R5 does - could you please elaborate? (I believe you, but I just don't get it.)

So, on the R5, you can do whole area AF and set the initial point for tracking as a setting, which will then give you a box, on which will then mostly track that area, but I've not found it to do so nearly as consistently or sticky to the starting point. With the R8, you can turn on that behavior with any mode as a layer on top of it.

So, for instance, if you have spot AF (the small box) on, you can also set it to do whole area AF tracking in Servo. So, let's say you have a quick toggle between one shot AF and servo (I do, and I have it set to the Record button). In One Shot AF, spot AF works completely how you'd expect it to. Switch to servo, and that spot AF is now used for precisely setting the starting point for recognized subjects, or if not a recognized subject, it will latch onto that point and track it throughout the frame. It's more precise that the starting area on the R5, and I've found the R8 to do this significantly more accurately and more sticky than the R5 does as well. Basically, on the R8 it seems to function much more like the real-time tracking AF that Sony bodies have, and you don't need to switch into the wide-area AF mode to gain this functionality...it works in every single focus mode, and uses whatever focus mode you have set to start that tracking, whether it be zone, expanded point, large box, small spot, etc.
Apr 26, 2023 at 02:56 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


On my R6, my AF starts as a preselected point, it first tracks eyes, otherwise it will grow the area to track whatever object it sees. So for a player, it will go from the eyes, to the bigger area of the helmet, then to the player, while tracking and I change composition. It isn’t always accurate, but does pretty well.


Apr 27, 2023 at 02:28 AM
Gochugogi
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Jman13 wrote:
So, on the R5, you can do whole area AF and set the initial point for tracking as a setting, which will then give you a box, on which will then mostly track that area, but I've not found it to do so nearly as consistently or sticky to the starting point. With the R8, you can turn on that behavior with any mode as a layer on top of it.

So, for instance, if you have spot AF (the small box) on, you can also set it to do whole area AF tracking in Servo. So, let's say you...Show more →

This tracking behavior in all AF patterns can also be used as an updated form of "lock AF and recompose." The advantage is the servo is constantly refining focus so when you recompose, it stays sharp.
Apr 27, 2023 at 03:32 AM
newyork
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Would IS in the lens, plus a higher shutter speed be enough to shoot street photography as well as all around use, on the R8 or is something like the R6ii or R5 better suited? Night/low light shooting as well
Apr 27, 2023 at 04:05 AM
 


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rscheffler
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


newyork wrote:
Would IS in the lens, plus a higher shutter speed be enough to shoot street photography as well as all around use, on the R8 or is something like the R6ii or R5 better suited? Night/low light shooting as well

Yes, in-lens stabilization will go a long ways towards mitigating the lack of IBIS in the R8. But image stabilization in whatever form can only do so much. It doesn't really do anything for moving subjects where a higher shutter speed is the solution (to freezing movement). There's an FM member active on the Alt/Leica board who does really great 35mm street work on a Leica Monochrom (no IBIS/IS options). He basically cranks up the ISO to get a high shutter speed with deep depth of field for hyperfocal or scale focusing. So, yeah, IS/IBIS isn't a necessity and depending on the situation, might not even be the ideal solution. In prototypical 'street' situations priority is catching 'the moment' over and above other considerations. Therefore if you need to freeze movement, high ISO with the accompanying higher noise may be a necessity to get the desired shutter speed and aperture combination, instead of compromising those settings for a technically better file (lower noise, wider dynamic range).

Also, as focal length increases, IBIS becomes less effective. If this is where you do a lot of work (telephoto lenses), optical stabilization will be the preferred solution. For example, the recent Canon 100-300/2.8 release, Canon touted optical stabilization of up to 5.5 stops and total stabilization of up to 6 stops if combined with IBIS. Just shows how much of the work falls on optical IS for such a lens.
Apr 27, 2023 at 09:02 AM
newyork
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Thank you. Well said. It’d be primes mostly if I were buying. The r6 ii and 8 looked good except the ibis scared me. R5 looks good but $$$$.

I almost dove into an m10 knowing there’s no ibis so I should’ve taken that knowledge into consideration. I backed off due to lack of funds and price of Leicas.

R5 looks amazing but $$$

Carry on, sorry for the derailment.


rscheffler wrote:
Yes, in-lens stabilization will go a long ways towards mitigating the lack of IBIS in the R8. But image stabilization in whatever form can only do so much. It doesn't really do anything for moving subjects where a higher shutter speed is the solution (to freezing movement). There's an FM member active on the Alt/Leica board who does really great 35mm street work on a Leica Monochrom (no IBIS/IS options). He basically cranks up the ISO to get a high shutter speed with deep depth of field for hyperfocal or scale focusing. So, yeah, IS/IBIS isn't a necessity and depending...Show more →
Apr 27, 2023 at 09:29 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


newyork wrote:
Thank you. Well said. It’d be primes mostly if I were buying. The r6 ii and 8 looked good except the ibis scared me. R5 looks good but $$$$.

I almost dove into an m10 knowing there’s no ibis so I should’ve taken that knowledge into consideration. I backed off due to lack of funds and price of Leicas.

R5 looks amazing but $$$

Carry on, sorry for the derailment.



IBIS is desirable but not necessary. I believe canon put IBIS in their camera just because Sony had it and if everything else was even people would go with Sony for IBIS. The majority of my lens are either manual for landscape on the tripod, or have IS. My non IS voigtlander or rf16/2.8 I would only use in the day time (or on a tripod). IBIS does not do you any much good on really fast big whites for wildlife where you are shooting at 1/1000s. Having IBIS theorectically moves IS from 4-5 stops to 5-6 stops when you are shooting near dusk, dawn or night. So just moving the ISO up 1 stop and you are even. IBIS has marginal benefits to most photographers.

For me the real debate is mpx - 24mpx (R8 light) vs 45mpx (R5 but heavier) vs 60mpx (Sony but heavy). 45mpx can be printed or cropped about 1/3 more than 24mpx. And the Sony can printed or cropped about 15% bigger than the 45mpx. So if you want to print big on a budget get a 5DSR (50mpx) . If you want to print big with a big budget get the Sony a7rV. But for those with modest print size or just posting on line - 24mpx is great.

Which brings me to my point - consider a r8. 24mpx, great video, great a/f, 40fps. No IBIS. It basically has all of the bells and whistles of R6 ii without IBIS and with a lower weight that arises from dropping IBIS. The iso performance and IQ are good enough that compared to cameras from several years ago, you can move the iso up a stop.

For street photography, r8 and 24-50, will get you great pictures, be light, and not be obtrusive. In the night, dusk, dawn switch over to 24-105 4-7.1 with IS. Sure there are better lens for iQ, but they are big and expensive, and street photography is about the composition, not the iq.
Apr 27, 2023 at 10:07 AM
newyork
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


I’m new but busting my butt learning and shooting. I do love the street stuff in day and at night. Using a Fuji and sigma f1.4. Having said that I try to shoot everything. Landscape scenes and random stuff. Just not wildlife since I don’t have the lens. Looking at a future upgrade to using a xs10 crop sensor.

I like that 45-50mm length. And the low light ability of the 1.4.

Didn’t realize that 4-7.1 would work well in low light. I do like the primes. I get too indecisive and jump around when there’s too many options.

I also would never use the video.

Would the R8, in your opinion be a considerable upgrade to the X-S10 without spending big ?
Apr 27, 2023 at 10:38 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Not sure how much you dig into high ISO, but how about ISO 25600? Enough detail left to see arm fuzz, lol!

The R8 would have a bit more resolution yet than the R6, and just as good with ISO.



Now ISO 40000, meh... the sensor and post processing pushes that right off a cliff.



But good enough to allow parents to keep a nice memory of the competitions for the day, so we keep these anyways.


Apr 27, 2023 at 10:53 AM
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


I haven’t gone over 6400 on my Fuji.


Apr 27, 2023 at 11:24 AM
jtford9
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


newyork wrote:
I haven’t gone over 6400 on my Fuji.

Curious, are you shooting street/night photography in NYC or out on the Island or a combination?
Apr 27, 2023 at 12:19 PM
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


On the island. 2 hours east of the city. I rarely visit the city. I’m fact most of the year street is really tough. No one is out until late Spring. That and I’m too shy to get in peoples space still lol

Tough to find compositions but I’m working on it.

I shoot a bunch of random stuff as well. I’m just obsessed with the whole process but night time low light was one of them which is why I mentioned that.



jtford9 wrote:
Curious, are you shooting street/night photography in NYC or out on the Island or a combination?
Apr 27, 2023 at 12:41 PM
newyork
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


Curious if the 50 1.2 or 24-70 f2 would make shooting tough since neither has stabilization. You’d have a camera and lens without. Same as a Leica I suppose.


Apr 27, 2023 at 06:23 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Canon R8 Initial Impressions


newyork wrote:
Would IS in the lens, plus a higher shutter speed be enough to shoot street photography as well as all around use, on the R8 or is something like the R6ii or R5 better suited? Night/low light shooting as well

rscheffler wrote:
Yes, in-lens stabilization will go a long ways towards mitigating the lack of IBIS in the R8. But image stabilization in whatever form can only do so much. It doesn't really do anything for moving subjects where a higher shutter speed is the solution (to freezing movement). There's an FM member active on the Alt/Leica board who does really great 35mm street work on a Leica Monochrom (no IBIS/IS options). He basically cranks up the ISO to get a high shutter speed with deep depth of field for hyperfocal or scale focusing. So, yeah, IS/IBIS isn't a necessity and depending...Show more →
newyork wrote:
Thank you. Well said. It’d be primes mostly if I were buying. The r6 ii and 8 looked good except the ibis scared me. R5 looks good but $$$$.

I almost dove into an m10 knowing there’s no ibis so I should’ve taken that knowledge into consideration. I backed off due to lack of funds and price of Leicas.

R5 looks amazing but $$$

Carry on, sorry for the derailment.


I use Canon and Leica. My Leica is the M240 and a bunch of lenses (21/3.4, 28/1.4, VM35/1.7, 50/1.4 ASPH, 90/2 APO ASPH, 90/4 Macro). I like using the Leica for landscape type work (natural and urban). Very sharp lenses. But ended up hauling around a tripod most of the time when in the woods because low ISO and stopped down for DOF meant shutter speeds were too marginal. I can't reliably get optimum sharpness with a 50mm below 1/180. Add a polarizer or ND to the mix and tripod is definitely necessary. Over on the Leica board there has been 'debate' about IBIS in an M body and for some it would be sacrilege. However, I would welcome it. But for street type use, just crank the ISO to get the shutter speed you need. There is something about rangefinder manual focusing, or using the distance scale on the focusing ring, that is very fast and certain and IMO still beats mirrorless EVFs.

For my Canon mirrorless transition I borrowed a lot of gear from CPS to evaluate and really fell for the 28-70/2 for event coverage as an alternative to a collection of fast primes. But no IS meant I really wanted IBIS and it has been really effective with this lens. I'm using the R6II and between 'work' gigs have been using this combo for springtime handheld landscapes. With a polarizer and stopped down, at lower ISOs, I'm getting good results with EFCS down to 1/30. At the wide end I can go even slower, but haven't really pushed it yet to find the limits. No way I could do that without IBIS or IS.

TeamSpeed wrote:
Not sure how much you dig into high ISO, but how about ISO 25600? Enough detail left to see arm fuzz, lol!

The R8 would have a bit more resolution yet than the R6, and just as good with ISO.


I've been shooting the R6II at ISO 25600 for youth hockey tournaments and the on-site prints from SOOC jpegs have looked really good. My only complaint in these situations has been that the camera's AWB-W mode is not as consistently clean/neutral as the1DXII I came from.
Apr 27, 2023 at 10:18 PM
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