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WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable

  
 
Jeff
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


After 15+ years as a client of White House Custom Color, I will no longer use them, and I suggest anyone think twice for professional (i.e. drop-ship) applications. Their consistency has gone out the window, and they no longer stand by their product, effectively stating that a large Standout Mount triptych was printed on lustre paper ‘within tolerances’ (it most certainly was not). For the record, I use calibrated monitors set to 80cd/m2 (controlled lighting in my office), and always use the correct WHCC ICC profile during soft-proofing in LR. Been doing this quite a long time (not my first rodeo with printing night images), and they’ve always been good in the past about correcting their mistakes.

For the backstory, I had a 76x24” three-panel pano shipped direct to a client, and they gently complained that the print came out too dark. I confirmed that it did look too dark (~1-stop), notably darker than the original files. After returning to my client’s home to photograph the prints with a color-checker in the frame, WHCC still refused to replace the print, saying although it was a ‘bit dark’, it was ‘within their tolerances’, and I’d have to supply a different file if I wanted a different result. I had a two-week back-and-forth trying to discover how I was supposed to soft-proof the file correctly if using their ICC profile didn’t cut it; they had no answer, and simply told me to lighten the file. Left with no recourse, I tried to approximate how much I needed to lighten the file based upon how (relatively) dark the first one was, and they did a test print of the right panel to confirm that it looked like I thought it should (it appeared to, from the iPhone photo they sent). They then charged me 50% to re-print the file ($200!), but I had little recourse, given that it was for a client.

I receive the replacement print (shipped to me, this time), open the box to take a look at one of the panels, and it seemed close enough, certainly in the ballpark. Arrange to go to my client’s house to personally re-hang the prints, and after standing back to look at the three panels together, was positively horrified to see that the right panel was about 2/3-stop lighter than the other two panels!

Unbelievable. They had used the initial test print that they ran, and instead of re-printing the three panels at the same time, weeks later they printed the two left panels and added to the test print, assuming they’d match. They most certainly did not match. I sent them images that clearly show the non-matching brightness levels of the prints, and they stalled for another week or two, asking me what I expect, appreciating my patience, but not addressing the problem. I finally lost it and asked for a Supervisor, and within a day or so they readily admitted that they completely screwed up, and the replacement prints never should have shipped looking like that. That was an understatement.

The second set of replacement prints was acceptable even though their source was a jpg file that did not resemble the output, so I went back to my client’s home one last time, embarrassed beyond belief.

Even after their replacement prints directly demonstrated that their printers can drift substantially (causing significant differences in brightness that they acknowledge was beyond what they consider ‘normal’), I still lost the $200 re-print fee. This process took 2 months and 1 week to play out.

I’ve been working with WHCC for nearly 20 years, and since COVID, they’ve had increasing quality control issues (which I acknowledge has become the norm for many companies). However, this set of circumstances has demonstrated to me that they no longer value professional clients (they often parrot that they have tens of thousands in the print queue, and they can't catch every problem). I thus cannot possibly fathom ever drop-shipping a print to a client without seeing it first. You'd think they'd have a process for scrutinizing a $400 print before shipping it out.

It honestly pains me to say it (as I was a WHCC fan for many years), but I’m done, and I’d strongly caution any professional photographer from ever using them again, particularly for drop-shipping expensive prints.

-Jeff

Attached: Unaltered iPhone images of 'replacement' prints, plus initial print vs. jpg file comparison. Note that the third image demonstrates exactly how much their printer output can drift, as it is effectively two different printings of the exact same file. Thus, this is how much they feel is normal for their output to change, from day-to-day, in this case in the 'lighter' direction.





The (replacement) triptych installed







Left-Center (looks good)







Right-Center (!)







Original prints, Center-Right (dark)







Original files (note especially differences in grass/trees)




Apr 03, 2023 at 03:28 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Was never a super fan of theirs. I never had any issues this severe, sorry nothing more irrupting than supplier not pulling their weight. I always had better success with Millers. But neither of these labs are true commerical high end labs. They are known for fast turn around products for portrait/wedding shooters.


Apr 03, 2023 at 07:04 PM
schlotz
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Unbelievable... been a customer there for many years but this is totally unacceptable. So now, need to find another print house that stands by their work... Anybody have one?


Apr 04, 2023 at 11:47 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


schlotz wrote:
Unbelievable... been a customer there for many years but this is totally unacceptable. So now, need to find another print house that stands by their work... Anybody have one?


BayPhoto has pretty similar products, use the ROES ordering platform, and have always been my other go-to. They are still a great option for this kind of printing.



Apr 04, 2023 at 12:00 PM
rico
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


I was never willing to have my work printed by an outside vendor (even though I did create a WHCC account). The solution for me was purchasing my own printers. The control and immediate turnaround is on another level. I can come back to a print the next day with fresh eyes and decide to adjust something. Contrary to popular conceptions, color management is not an issue, and profiling is unnecessary. The only complication is mounting and framing where using a local vendor might be the easiest route.





Note green cast of the Retina screen and the high gamma. Not an impediment to printing!



Apr 04, 2023 at 12:06 PM
eyal
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


To OP - that sucks.

I used WHCC 10-15 years ago but got a black and white metal that came out green and dropped them

Have been with BayPhoto since and they have ALWAYS replaced prints when I called them for any issue (mostly damage en route which occurs rarely).

They do offer two levels - economy without color correction and standard with color correction. You can put in comments to them with questions/concerns in ROES. The former does not offer print protection as it is cheaper and is 100% reliant on your calibration matching theirs but the latter does offer that protection so often will use it for extra few bucks even though I work on a calibrated Eizo and soft proof with their icc profile.



Apr 04, 2023 at 12:25 PM
Ischgl99
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


I never used WHCC, but was thinking of giving them a try, I think I’ll stick with Bay Photo after seeing your experience. I’ve had a few issues with prints from Bay Photo, but they never hesitated to replace them and the replacements were received very quickly, so while I was disappointed the issues happened at all, their customer service has been superb.


Apr 05, 2023 at 06:39 AM
Daniel Smith
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Use Bay Photo. Awhile back ordered some 30x40 inch prints and when they came one had a Nipple in one corner of the mounted print. They replaced it with no problems and even shipped express/next day to me. I was happy, client was happy & the lab folks were apologetic that a mounted print got out with that glitch.

They do good job. Smaller prints I do myself but don't like the cost and hassle to do large prints myself. Much easier to have a good lab do the job.



Apr 08, 2023 at 10:31 AM
Dustin Gent
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Ive used replicolor.com for years, and they are FANTASTIC!


Apr 09, 2023 at 10:02 PM
Jeff
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


rico wrote:
I was never willing to have my work printed by an outside vendor (even though I did create a WHCC account). The solution for me was purchasing my own printers. The control and immediate turnaround is on another level. I can come back to a print the next day with fresh eyes and decide to adjust something. Contrary to popular conceptions, color management is not an issue, and profiling is unnecessary. The only complication is mounting and framing where using a local vendor might be the easiest route.

http://makino.fi/rico/fm/pro2000b.jpg

http://makino.fi/rico/fm/pro2000c.jpg

Note green cast of the Retina screen and the high gamma. Not an
...Show more

From the looks of your print vs. the display, I would suggest that color management is indeed an issue, and profiling may be necessary.



Jul 11, 2023 at 11:42 AM
 


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CanadaMark
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


I can't speak to WHCC nor do I live in the USA but this is one reason why I use what could be considered a "value" print shop. I have used many different printers and I've never been able to tell a difference between what I get and prints costing 2X-4X+ the cost from other services. For the most part they're all using similar equipment and mediums anyway. With the "value" printers, in my experience, if they even get a whiff that you're unhappy, you immediately get a free re-print plus you get to keep the one that may not be perfect. In Canada I use posterjack.ca for almost everything and the prints match what I send them very precisely. If I ever have to fight them to fix their own mistakes, that will be the last time I use them (so far so good though).

Regarding the example of the dancer above, doing any kind of color critical work on a Macbook is a recipe for disaster unless you are using an external monitor. There is no way to properly calibrate a Macbook screen (not even their comically overpriced studio monitors have hardware calibration or a LUT) and you usually need to edit in a dark room because of the ultra-glossy displays. On top of that you have to make sure things like TrueTone are not getting in the way. If you want to edit on a Macbook for printing, I'd strongly suggest using a proper external monitor. That being said, you don't seem to be bothered by the on-screen image being completely different than the print (I don't mean that in a bad way), so you could probably be saving a lot of money on ink/paper just using any cheap online printing service



Jul 11, 2023 at 04:19 PM
rico
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


CanadaMark wrote:
... so you could probably be saving a lot of money on ink/paper just using any cheap online printing service

Backhanded compliment, as they say, but thanks. I don't require a print service because I own a very nice and non-too-cheap Canon Pro-2000. The print above was photographed in color-critical strobe lighting in my studio, and is color correct as can be gleaned from the reference objects in the scene (B&H packing tape, Sparkle glass cleaner, Canon "L" red stripe). I processed the print using the MBP with its technically dreadful color cast and, no, it doesn't need to be calibrated to serve this purpose. In the olden days when we processed color prints in the darkroom or drum-developed Cibachrome prints, we didn't have computers or monitors at all. The key is training your eye to see color, then applying the color correction via gels or colorhead. Color calibration between media with disparate gamut and illumination technology is a false god.



Jul 12, 2023 at 08:09 PM
Creative Edge
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


this is the very reason I purchased a 44 wide photo printer and have been doing my own printing for the past 15 years. Not worth the headaches


Aug 04, 2023 at 08:42 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


CanadaMark wrote:
I can't speak to WHCC nor do I live in the USA but this is one reason why I use what could be considered a "value" print shop. I have used many different printers and I've never been able to tell a difference between what I get and prints costing 2X-4X+ the cost from other services. For the most part they're all using similar equipment and mediums anyway. With the "value" printers, in my experience, if they even get a whiff that you're unhappy, you immediately get a free re-print plus you get to keep the one that may not
...Show more

Actually, the main elephant in the room regarding using a newer MBP isn't necessarily color, assuming you have everything configured properly as you've noted, it's screen brightness level. It is possible to do (what serious color people would consider) a crude calibration, and get the colors into the ballpark for most people (honestly, the newer screens are pretty good out of the box). The problem is that you never know what your screen brightness is, especially given changing ambient light conditions under which laptops tend to be used.



Nov 09, 2023 at 09:08 AM
jhapeman
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Jeff wrote:
Actually, the main elephant in the room regarding using a newer MBP isn't necessarily color, assuming you have everything configured properly as you've noted, it's screen brightness level. It is possible to do (what serious color people would consider) a crude calibration, and get the colors into the ballpark for most people (honestly, the newer screens are pretty good out of the box). The problem is that you never know what your screen brightness is, especially given changing ambient light conditions under which laptops tend to be used.


Even this is not correct; you can use one of their profiles that lock in colors and brightness or even create your own. It's quite simple and very effective.



Nov 09, 2023 at 11:50 AM
Jeff
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Jeff wrote:
Actually, the main elephant in the room regarding using a newer MBP isn't necessarily color, assuming you have everything configured properly as you've noted, it's screen brightness level. It is possible to do (what serious color people would consider) a crude calibration, and get the colors into the ballpark for most people (honestly, the newer screens are pretty good out of the box). The problem is that you never know what your screen brightness is, especially given changing ambient light conditions under which laptops tend to be used.

jhapeman wrote:
Even this is not correct; you can use one of their profiles that lock in colors and brightness or even create your own. It's quite simple and very effective.


Interesting; I've not been able to successfully do that. Have a link? Can you disable the brightness keys on the keyboard?



Nov 09, 2023 at 12:58 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Jeff wrote:
The problem is that you never know what your screen brightness is, especially given changing ambient light conditions under which laptops tend to be used.


This is why three things are critical if using the MBP screen for photo editing:

1) Turn off dynamic brightness
2) Turn off True Tone
3) Set your brightness manually to the same value every editing session



Nov 09, 2023 at 01:04 PM
Jeff
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


RoamingScott wrote:
This is why three things are critical if using the MBP screen for photo editing:

1) Turn off dynamic brightness
2) Turn off True Tone
3) Set your brightness manually to the same value every editing session


Right, I got that. But how would one go about setting the brightness in a way that you know it is the same? It's virtually impossible to 'eyeball' the slider, and it's been my experience that 'click' settings (on the keyboard) may or may not be consistent, esp. over time.



Nov 09, 2023 at 01:08 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Jeff wrote:
Right, I got that. But how would one go about setting the brightness in a way that you know it is the same? It's virtually impossible to 'eyeball' the slider, and it's been my experience that 'click' settings (on the keyboard) may or may not be consistent, esp. over time.


Adjust brightness with your MBP keyboard, always use the same "tick mark" value. Easiest way is go full bright and then back however many clicks.



Nov 09, 2023 at 01:11 PM
jhapeman
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · WHCC.com’s printing and QA/QC has become unacceptable


Jeff wrote:
Right, I got that. But how would one go about setting the brightness in a way that you know it is the same? It's virtually impossible to 'eyeball' the slider, and it's been my experience that 'click' settings (on the keyboard) may or may not be consistent, esp. over time.


What MBP do you have? The new Apple silicon ones with the new Liquid Retican XDR displays now have different reference modes you can choose.



Nov 09, 2023 at 01:11 PM
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