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Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.

  
 
pigtango
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


Like the title says, curious to hear some thoughts and see some images of the IQ of the 16-55mm on the newer 40mp sensors. If you also have some of the newer primes that fit in the range, like the 18mm 1.4 WR, 23mm, 33mm, etc.. curious how the zoom compares at comparable apertures to the primes. I know the primes will be better, but curious to hear how far apart they might be.

Thanks in advance!



Mar 18, 2023 at 01:29 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


If a Fujifilm lens works well on the older 24MP and 26MP sensors, based on my several months of experience with the XT5, it will work as well or better on the newer sensor.

I have used it with the 16-55mm f/2.8 zoom, and it is excellent. Here's one example:







I do most of my landscape photography from the tripod with much larger full-frame system, but I have relied on a 24MP Fujifilm as a lighter alternative on occasion in the past, for example on some backpacking and hiking journeys. On this occasions I was doing a day hike up a canyon in Death Valley National Park, so I left the big gear behind and took the XT5 and the 16-55.

I've also used the camera with a bunch of other Fujifilm lenses including:

27mm f2/8 pancake
35mm f/1.4
80mm f/2.8 macro
50-140mm f/2.8

All of them work very well, and all of them produce enough detail that the 40MP sensor is advantageous.

You may notice that some of those lenses are not on the Fujifilm list of lenses allegedly "ready" for 40MP. Take that list with a grain of salt. You do not need to limit yourself to lens on that list, and some that are not on it are better than some that are.

Dan



Mar 18, 2023 at 04:06 PM
SamuraiDog
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


I've always been curious about this too.


Mar 22, 2023 at 07:24 PM
zuru
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


I am one of those who took the time to pixel peep using the 16-55mm comparing side by side between the XT4 and the XT5 (that's my day job after all). I can tell you that it does superbly well as long as you are mindful of diffraction which kicks in between f-5.6 and 7.1.

If I have some time I'll upload comparisons of shots of targets comparing these 2. If you are on the fence on this lens, go for it



Mar 22, 2023 at 08:28 PM
SamuraiDog
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


Are you saying diffraction starts at f5.6? I never would have imagined it. Looking forward to your upcoming post. Thanks.


Mar 22, 2023 at 08:31 PM
HS-LD
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


Yes diffraction can start at f5.6. The APs-c 40 mp sensor would be equivalent to a 90mp full frame sensor which is really crazy if you think about it.

And it's not just 40 x 1.5. It's (length x 1.5) x (width x 1.5) = about 90mp's

As these pixel counts get higher, focus stacking becomes a more necessary technique.



Mar 28, 2023 at 12:44 PM
SamuraiDog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


HS-LD wrote:
Yes diffraction can start at f5.6. The APs-c 40 mp sensor would be equivalent to a 90mp full frame sensor which is really crazy if you think about it.

And it's not just 40 x 1.5. It's (length x 1.5) x (width x 1.5) = about 90mp's

As these pixel counts get higher, focus stacking becomes a more necessary technique.


That is crazy. I don't yet own a body with 40mp sensor, but something to keep in mind.

Thanks.



Mar 28, 2023 at 01:32 PM
 


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gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


HS-LD wrote:
Yes diffraction can start at f5.6. The APs-c 40 mp sensor would be equivalent to a 90mp full frame sensor which is really crazy if you think about it.

And it's not just 40 x 1.5. It's (length x 1.5) x (width x 1.5) = about 90mp's

As these pixel counts get higher, focus stacking becomes a more necessary technique.


A few things to keep in mind about diffraction and the aperture where "it starts."

1. The amount of diffraction is no different at a given aperture on a 40mp, 26MP or 16MP sensor. Diffraction is an optical phenomenon produced by lenses, not something that (at least not in a significant way) is produced by sensors. Consequently, if you put a lens on a 16MP camera, shoot at some aperture (lets say f/8), and then move the lens to a 26MP camera and a 40MP camera and repeat the process... and make three prints at the same size... you'll have exactly the same amount of diffraction.

2. When it comes to diffraction, using a higher MP camera can produce two things — equal quality or better quality — when compared to using a lower MP camera at the same apertures. A higher MP camera will NEVER suffer image loss at some aperture that make sit worse than what you would get on a lower MP camera, and by selecting optimal apertures (and using excellent lenses) it can be better.

Some of you know this already, and you might wonder why I'm writing this.I"m writing it because some still seem to think that "diffraction is worse" on higher MP cameras and that this is a liability. It isn't. :-)

One more thing. While you can determine, more or less, and ideal aperture for some given pixel density, it isn't like the IQ suddenly goes bad on either side of that aperture. A stop away may no longer b the absolute best theoretical aperture, but the difference is often quite small... and worth "sacrificing" it for for things like DOF control or adapting to light levels, etc.



Mar 28, 2023 at 02:15 PM
HS-LD
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


gdanmitchell wrote:
A few things to keep in mind about diffraction and the aperture where "it starts."

1. The amount of diffraction is no different at a given aperture on a 40mp, 26MP or 16MP sensor. Diffraction is an optical phenomenon produced by lenses, not something that (at least not in a significant way) is produced by sensors. Consequently, if you put a lens on a 16MP camera, shoot at some aperture (lets say f/8), and then move the lens to a 26MP camera and a 40MP camera and repeat the process... and make three prints at the same size... you'll have exactly
...Show more

Yes, very good things to keep in mind.

But just like those things, if you want to produce images with the highest IQ your system is capable of you need to know what apertures that system works best at, which is why knowing when diffraction kicks in is important. Also it allows you to know when you are sacrificing that highest image quality for some other parameter. It's all part of knowing your tools.



Mar 29, 2023 at 12:35 AM
scalanc2
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


This lens was nothing special on 26mpx.
On 40mpx…
Fuji cameras are done for fixed focal lenses.
Possibly unique exception is the 50-140.



Apr 04, 2023 at 02:35 PM
gaopa
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


scalanc2, what do you mean when you say..."Fuji cameras are done for fixed focal lenses.
Possibly unique exception is the 50-140"?



Apr 04, 2023 at 02:49 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


HS-LD wrote:
Yes, very good things to keep in mind.

But just like those things, if you want to produce images with the highest IQ your system is capable of you need to know what apertures that system works best at, which is why knowing when diffraction kicks in is important. Also it allows you to know when you are sacrificing that highest image quality for some other parameter. It's all part of knowing your tools.


It eventually occurred to me that there are basically three modes for selecting aperture.

1. If you need to minimize DOF or are willing to accept minimal DOF in order to keep your shutter speed high enough, you open up as much as you can, often going to the maximum aperture of the lens.

2. If aperture isn't relevant to the "interpretation" of the image you typically will shoot at or very close to the aperture that best balances things like average sharpness across the frame, minimal diffraction blur, best sharpness on your central subject. The rule of thumb on FF has been f/8, but f/5.6 or so is probably a good bet here on APS-C.

3. If you need to maximize DOF you likely stop down "a bit more" up to the point at which you feel that diffraction blur will be too much of a liability to offset the extra DOF. On APS-C this is probably in the f/11 range, though in some cases you might push to f/16.

"Sharpness" is a complex thing, and it is about more than just measuring stuff. (Not that measuring doesn't have value, too.) I like a concept I call subjective sharpness." For example, let's say you are photographing a person. Let's say that your "sharpness" aperture is f/5.6. However, if you open up to, let's say, f/1.4 and blur the background the person will stand out better from that background, increasing the subjective sense of sharpness. This can be amplified in other ways. Perhaps you select a background with a more uniform texture, colors that don't stand out, perhaps will less light so that it is a bit darker. (or more light to make it brighter than your primary subject.) How you light the subject matter, too.

The point is that while it is worthwhile knowing what the "sharpest aperture" is, the difference between that aperture and on a stop away (or even more in some cases) may be insignificant if it gets in the way of other elements that contribute to the sense of overall sharpness in an image.

Anyway, good general rule of thumb — if you haven't tested each lens — is that f/5.6 is probably pretty good on most APS-C lenses.



Apr 04, 2023 at 04:39 PM
scalanc2
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Thoughts on image quality of the 16-55 on 40mp.


@Gaopa.
What I mean is that the potential of Fuji x-trans sensors is fully exploited with fixed focal lenses.
I refer for instance to the 16 1.4, the 23 WR 1.4, the 33, the 90mm etc.
All zoom lenses are so so, with the exception of the 50-140 in my opinion.
Also red badge zooms, of which the 16-55 is part are non as spectacular as the mentioned fixed focal lenses.
This is a common concern in many brands but in Fuji it is heavier.
I think in Fuji they must improve their approach to zooms design.



Apr 04, 2023 at 05:15 PM







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