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Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

M242
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

So I know more is better. But any opinions for how smoothly/painfully 8 gb on a Macbook Air M1 or M2 works for:

1. Photo AI
2. Video AI (I see 16 gb is minimum, but is 8 gb just not possible?)

I’m guessing that an iPadOS version of Photo AI (or any similar iPad-based denoiser/sharpener) is just not in the cards, so I’m mulling over getting a computer that is still light enough to take on the road.

Thank you!

Edited on Mar 16, 2023 at 02:10 PM · View previous versions

Mar 16, 2023 at 11:57 AM

Camperjim
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

With my older computer I was just plain not able to install the Topaz software I wanted. That was confirmed by Topaz tech support. I don't understand the comment about having a light enough computer to take on the road. You can get a light weight 13-14" laptop with plenty of ram and performance.

Mar 16, 2023 at 12:24 PM

traingoof
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

Using an older PC with I5 CPU with 16GB of ram, and Photo AI is painfully slow. From what I understand
video is more demanding.

Mar 16, 2023 at 12:25 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

Only 8GB of RAM is not a good idea in 2023. RAM prices are fairly down now.
However, Photo AI sucks in so many ways.

EBH

Mar 16, 2023 at 06:26 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

I had to buy a new MacBook Air last year when in Europe because Lightroom, etc was choking on my old one from my R5 files. Since I store all my files on an external drive I just got a 250 GB. Photo AI takes about 45 seconds and no choking. It is also the same at home on my 2019 iMac. Not M but I made sure to beef up the VRAM (8GB) as AI chews that up. My iMac has 64GB memory and my Air is just as fast, if not faster. The M1 chip is pretty amazing.

If you use Lightroom it requires a minimum of 16GB memory. LrC just flies on the Air. 50+ edits including masking and not issues.

I don't do video AI but I'd pay attention to the specs. I had an older iMac as well that did not have the VRAM to run Topaz products like DeNoise.

Mar 16, 2023 at 10:20 PM

mcbroomf
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

Check out this video. He has some useful real world comparisons using LRC and PS so you can see if the pain of the 8GB machine is too high for you

... not Topaz unfortunately

He's doing the comparison on M2 Macbook Pros which should have similar differences (8 vs 16) to the Air even though the Air may not run quite as fast. He also includes an 8GB M1 Air.

Mar 17, 2023 at 08:37 AM

M242
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

Thank you! In retrospect, 45 seconds is what I was wondering. I wonder how much faster an M2 would be…

And thank you to everyone else. 16 gb seems the way to go.

Zenon Char wrote:
I had to buy a new MacBook Air last year when in Europe because Lightroom, etc was choking on my old one from my R5 files. Since I store all my files on an external drive I just got a 250 GB. Photo AI takes about 45 seconds and no choking. It is also the same at home on my 2019 iMac. Not M but I made sure to beef up the VRAM (8GB) as AI chews that up. My iMac has 64GB memory and my Air is just as fast, if not faster. The M1 chip is pretty...Show more →

Mar 17, 2023 at 03:16 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

I don't know but Photo AI processes both NR and sharpening which is why it takes longer. The individual apps tale about 15 seconds. DXO PR2 takes about 20 seconds.

M242 wrote:
Thank you! In retrospect, 45 seconds is what I was wondering. I wonder how much faster an M2 would be…

And thank you to everyone else. 16 gb seems the way to go.

Mar 18, 2023 at 03:44 AM

ruthenium
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

Zenon Char wrote:
I don't know but Photo AI processes both NR and sharpening which is why it takes longer. The individual apps tale about 15 seconds. DXO PR2 takes about 20 seconds.

I am not sure if the following is relevant. I have just installed a new 16" MacBook Pro M2 with 64 GB RAM.
A quick test of the times it takes to convert 7 (seven) Sony A1 (50MP) ARW (raw) files:
Topaz DeNoise (RAW model, default settings, converted to dng): 65 s or 9.3 s per file
Topaz Photo AI (RAW model, default autopilot, converted to dng): 120 s or close to 17 s per file
DxO Photolab (DeepPRIME denoising, default settings, converted to jpg): 39 s or close to 5.6 s per file
DxO Photolab (DeepPRIME XD denoising, default settings, converted to jpg): 57 s or close to 8.2 s per file.
GPU Apple M2 MAX was used in the settings.

Mar 18, 2023 at 12:54 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

ruthenium wrote:
I am not sure if the following is relevant. I have just installed a new 16" MacBook Pro M2 with 64 GB RAM.
A quick test of the times it takes to convert 7 (seven) Sony A1 (50MP) ARW (raw) files:
Topaz DeNoise (RAW model, default settings, converted to dng): 65 s or 9.3 s per file
Topaz Photo AI (RAW model, default autopilot, converted to dng): 120 s or close to 17 s per file
DxO Photolab (DeepPRIME denoising, default settings, converted to jpg): 39 s or close to 5.6 s per file
DxO Photolab (DeepPRIME XD denoising, default settings, converted to jpg): 57...Show more →

I don't know what to tell you. I just clocked them again expect for PureRaw 3. I removed the trial version off my laptop but it took almost twice as long as PureRaw 2. Photo AI took about 45 seconds with my R5 but I sold it.

Testing with my R7 and my MacBook Air

Photo AI = 38 seconds

PureRaw 2 = 27 seconds

DeNoise = 14 seconds

Mar 19, 2023 at 03:34 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

These are my settings in PAI. I turned off lens corrections as I prefer to do that back in LrC. Not sure if that affects it. I may try it with it on later. I'm stepping out for a while.

Mar 19, 2023 at 03:47 AM

jhapeman
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

ruthenium wrote:
I am not sure if the following is relevant. I have just installed a new 16" MacBook Pro M2 with 64 GB RAM.
A quick test of the times it takes to convert 7 (seven) Sony A1 (50MP) ARW (raw) files:
Topaz DeNoise (RAW model, default settings, converted to dng): 65 s or 9.3 s per file
Topaz Photo AI (RAW model, default autopilot, converted to dng): 120 s or close to 17 s per file
DxO Photolab (DeepPRIME denoising, default settings, converted to jpg): 39 s or close to 5.6 s per file
DxO Photolab (DeepPRIME XD denoising, default settings, converted to jpg): 57...Show more →

Try it again and leave the AI processor set to Auto. For whatever reason, I've found with the Topaz products that using anything but the Auto setting--on a Mac or PC--makes it run slower. You should be seeing more like 6s per image with your machine for DeNoise. You also can't compare converting to a DNG to converting to a jpeg. DxO is slower creating a DNG than a jpg.

Mar 19, 2023 at 10:06 AM

ruthenium
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

Repeated the measurements today, as follows:
Laptop: the new 16" MacBook Pro M2 Max with 64 GB RAM and 1TB HD
10 (ten) Sony A1 compressed lossless ARW (raw) files, 8640 x 5760 pixels, size on disk varies from 56.6 to 66.9 MB.
Export to DNG in all tests.
Topaz Photo AI and DeNoise were set to AI processor = Auto. Face refinement was turned off in PAI. Otherwise all setting were default. All programs were installed last Friday - they are the latest revisions.
DxO Photolab 6 automatically decided to run seven files simultaneously during export - I accepted this, although I cannot tell whether this is ideal.
All measurements were repeated at least twice - they were reproducible.
Results:
Topaz Photo AI: 2m 22s or 14.2 s per image
Topaz DeNoise: 1 m 26 s or 8.6 s per image
DxO Photolab DeepPRIME: 59 s or 5.9 s per image
DxO Photolab DeepPRIME XD: 4 m 40 s or 28 s per image
When DeepPRIME acceleration is changed from GPU Apple M2 Max (times given above) to Apple Neural Engine, then the times shorten to
DxO Photolab DeepPRIME: 46 s or 4.6 s per image
DxO Photolab DeepPRIME XD: 2 m 26 s or 14.6 s per image
With the Apple Neural Engine, there is currently a color-cast affecting the DeepPRIME XD export
There is no color cast when doing DeepPRIME export.

I could not reproduce the very short export time with DxO Photolab DeepPRIME XD that I measured yesterday (reported above). I don't know the reason for this.

Mar 19, 2023 at 12:12 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

jhapeman wrote:
Try it again and leave the AI processor set to Auto. For whatever reason, I've found with the Topaz products that using anything but the Auto setting--on a Mac or PC--makes it run slower. You should be seeing more like 6s per image with your machine for DeNoise. You also can't compare converting to a DNG to converting to a jpeg. DxO is slower creating a DNG than a jpg.

I found that too. I leave it on Auto.

Mar 21, 2023 at 03:25 AM

ruthenium
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

Zenon Char wrote:
I found that too. I leave it on Auto.

I see no difference in export times for Topaz DeNoise, whereas there is a substantial difference between "Auto" and "Apple M2 Max" in Topaz Photo AI. In this latter case, exporting 10 raw files (the same as in my post above) on my 16" MacBook Pro M2 Max with 64 GB RAM and 1TB HD takes
14.1 s (+/-1 s) in Auto per image
19.3 s in Apple M2Max
Ultimately, yes it makes sense to choose Auto, although this behavior makes me uncomfortable, because it is not clear why users are given this choice to begin with? By instinct, I first chose "Apple M2 Max", because I like certainty. "Auto" makes me uncertain, as I cannot tell whether the app is sufficiently smart. As it happens in this case, it is smarter than me, and makes some choices that are not even available to me as a user. This behavior is not quite right.

Mar 23, 2023 at 10:18 AM

jhapeman
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

ruthenium wrote:
I see no difference in export times for Topaz DeNoise, whereas there is a substantial difference between "Auto" and "Apple M2 Max" in Topaz Photo AI. In this latter case, exporting 10 raw files (the same as in my post above) on my 16" MacBook Pro M2 Max with 64 GB RAM and 1TB HD takes
14.1 s (+/-1 s) in Auto per image
19.3 s in Apple M2Max
Ultimately, yes it makes sense to choose Auto, although this behavior makes me uncomfortable, because it is not clear why users are given this choice to begin with? By instinct, I first chose "Apple...Show more →

It only affects processing times; not exports as those are handled by LR itself. Even Lightroom tends to perform better when you don't explicitly choose the GPU and leave it on Auto. It's a bit of an industry thing I suppose.

BTW, are you using the "Export" setting to process with PhotoAI? If so, you aren't getting the advantage of the raw processing. For that you need to use the File --> Plug-in Extras -->Process with Topaz Photo AI option from the top menu. That doesn't export anything, it just kicks you over to PhotoAI and opens the raw file.

FWIW, 99% of the time I'm still using DeNoise as PhotoAI is just too heavy-handed on the NR and it seems no matter how much I dial it back, it still sharpens and creates some artificial details/artifacts.

Mar 23, 2023 at 11:22 AM

ruthenium
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

jhapeman wrote:
It only affects processing times; not exports as those are handled by LR itself. Even Lightroom tends to perform better when you don't explicitly choose the GPU and leave it on Auto. It's a bit of an industry thing I suppose.

BTW, are you using the "Export" setting to process with PhotoAI? If so, you aren't getting the advantage of the raw processing. For that you need to use the File --> Plug-in Extras -->Process with Topaz Photo AI option from the top menu. That doesn't export anything, it just kicks you over to PhotoAI and opens the raw file.

FWIW,...Show more →

Thank you for the explanations! I should have added that I don't use Adobe products and do all post-processing in DxO Photolab 6. Thus, all the exports from Topaz were from raw to dng, for no practical use - only to look at the times the exports were to take. I understand that the whole process can work differently when Topaz apps are used together with one of the Adobe products. I should have time this summer to invest into learning Lightroom and Photoshop. I am interested in what these programs can do, however, I am generally happy with DxO PL. Denoising in PL is very satisfactory, thus I don't anticipate much need for Topaz, even if I own the products (for historical reasons). The processing times in DxO PL have dramatically improved on the new MacBook Pro - I am glad added this laptop.

Mar 23, 2023 at 12:23 PM

John Photo
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

ruthenium wrote:
I am not sure if the following is relevant. I have just installed a new 16" MacBook Pro M2 with 64 GB RAM.
A quick test of the times it takes to convert 7 (seven) Sony A1 (50MP) ARW (raw) files:
Topaz DeNoise (RAW model, default settings, converted to dng): 65 s or 9.3 s per file
Topaz Photo AI (RAW model, default autopilot, converted to dng): 120 s or close to 17 s per file
DxO Photolab (DeepPRIME denoising, default settings, converted to jpg): 39 s or close to 5.6 s per file
DxO Photolab (DeepPRIME XD denoising, default settings, converted to jpg): 57...Show more →

Have you done a similar test processing just one single file rather than a "batch"?

Mar 28, 2023 at 02:55 PM

ruthenium
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

In DxO Photolab 6, yes, as I am using the program on a regular basis for PP.
Exporting a single image takes longer than in batch. The times are typically 8-9 s when using DxO DeepPRIME denoising and the GPUs
I can check the time per single image in Topaz, if this is important - let me know.

Mar 28, 2023 at 03:09 PM

aKansasKid
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Topaz and … 8 gb Ram? MacBook Air M1? M2?

Just to show you progress over the last few years:

I've been using an 8GB Lenovo C560 all-in-one with an i3-4130 CPU (2 cores) with embedded HD Graphics 4400 single core GPU. Actually runs quite snappily for general use, including all things Office. But was slow using Topaz AI Sharpen.

Bought a base M1 8GB/256GB MacBook Air yesterday ($799 Best Buy) and ran Sharpen on it and that i3 using the same 20GB RAW file. Hit "Save" and waited.

i3 took about 10 minutes to save.
M1 took less than 10 seconds - it was done before I could really start to time it.

There's a lot I still hate about Mac OS - haven't owned one for 25 years, but had to support a few in the IT specialist role I held before retiring. Despite all its MacOS idiosyncrasies, I'm still glad to have it for post-processing. It still has a way to go before I move my general computing to it.

Mar 31, 2023 at 12:27 PM

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