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Archive 2023 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

  
 
EB-1
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


EB-1 wrote:
...

Jeff Nolten wrote:
EBH: You get 2000+ on a single battery with the R5? Any suggestions how we can emulate that?

EBH

I think it has to be determined empirically. 2000+ is with the MS at 12FPS and the Black cards. Sometimes I use the ES, but the buffer often runs out too soon. The buffer does run out at 12FPS, but not so often unless maybe a large herd is coming at me.

EBH



Mar 12, 2023 at 03:21 PM
Mike_5D
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


Rivermist wrote:
Good points, I forgot about the W-Fi, Bluetooth, GPS, etc.. since I never, ever use them. As we all have experienced from our iPads, cell phones or watches, those are big battery drains



When I first got my R6, I kept it in airplane mode all the time because I was scared of running out of power. Then I started using GPS via the mobile app which required leaving the radios on. I'm sure it is costing some power, but it hasn't changed my behavior. That is, if I carried two batteries before, I still carry two batteries and haven't run out. So the hit over a day is far less than one battery's worth of power.



Mar 12, 2023 at 03:22 PM
rscheffler
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


EB-1 wrote:
...

Jeff Nolten wrote:
EBH: You get 2000+ on a single battery with the R5? Any suggestions how we can emulate that?

EB-1 wrote:
EBH

I think it has to be determined empirically. 2000+ is with the MS at 12FPS and the Black cards. Sometimes I use the ES, but the buffer often runs out too soon. The buffer does run out at 12FPS, but not so often unless maybe a large herd is coming at me.

EBH


Not sure about the R5, if it's more power hungry. With the R6 last fall I was able to stretch two batteries to do over 4000 images at a football game in e-shutter only. But I turned off all power inefficient features except 120fps EVF, flipped the rear display to hide it and avoided reviewing images as much as possible. I think by the end both were approaching 10%.

When I got the R6II I found that by the half of most games, after 2000-3000 images on average, two batteries in the grip were down to around 70% each. The last couple games were around freezing too, and didn't notice much difference in battery life.

IME it really depends a lot on how the camera is being used. For example, a few days ago I spent a few hours out in a snowstorm, temperature around freezing, shot about 400 images with the R6II and 28-70/2, EFCS, IBIS on, frequent reviews in the EVF, infrequent rear display use and battery was down to 35%.

TeamSpeed wrote:
I can get 400-500 shots in my R6 with no issues, and during a nine hour event, went through 3 batteries. If you only get 150 per battery, there are either features that werenít shut off like continuous AF, wifi, gps, etc, something wrong with the batteries, or issue with the body.

I get more than 150 on my M50 battery even, and that is a tiny battery with about 1/2 the capacity of the lpe6.

Rivermist wrote:
Good points, I forgot about the W-Fi, Bluetooth, GPS, etc.. since I never, ever use them. As we all have experienced from our iPads, cell phones or watches, those are big battery drains

Mike_5D wrote:
When I first got my R6, I kept it in airplane mode all the time because I was scared of running out of power. Then I started using GPS via the mobile app which required leaving the radios on. I'm sure it is costing some power, but it hasn't changed my behavior. That is, if I carried two batteries before, I still carry two batteries and haven't run out. So the hit over a day is far less than one battery's worth of power.


Have you found the gps updates via the smartphone app to be accurate? I tried it briefly a while ago and maybe I had it set wrong. It seemed like it updated location either only when the app was in use or updated very infrequently. It was to the point where the location info was useless and I had to adjust it manually afterwards. I'm on iOS and wonder if the app needs to be given 'always on' location sharing permission.



Mar 12, 2023 at 03:51 PM
Mike_5D
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


rscheffler wrote:
Not sure about the R5, if it's more power hungry. With the R6 last fall I was able to stretch two batteries to do over 4000 images at a football game in e-shutter only. But I turned off all power inefficient features except 120fps EVF, flipped the rear display to hide it and avoided reviewing images as much as possible. I think by the end both were approaching 10%.

When I got the R6II I found that by the half of most games, after 2000-3000 images on average, two batteries in the grip were down to around 70% each. The
...Show more

I've found it to be as accurate as the GPS data added to photos taken by the phone itself, which is to say, "not very". I have a Pixel 6 and enabled high precision GPS. I can be looking at Google Maps with satellite images on the phone and walk to a corner of my back yard. The blue dot tracks me there and shows exactly where I am. So far, so good. The I take a photo, either with the phone or the R6 linked to the Canon app, and when I bring the photos into LightRoom, it might show that I was 2 houses away. (1/5 acre lots, not big country estates)

In researching this, I found a source that said the issue is with the GPS system itself. The reported position at any point in time has some error. One moment, it reports that you're 50' to the northeast, the next moment it reports you 200' to the southwest. This is the data captured when you take a photo: An instantaneous, point-in-time set of coordinates. Some apps, like Google Maps, averages this out to get a much more accurate position. The error is not caused by an update lag. I have many sets of photos where I know that I didn't move an inch, yet the map pins in Lightroom look like a scatter plot.



Mar 12, 2023 at 04:10 PM
EB-1
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


Ideally your device should be receiving data from multiple systems like Galileo and GLONASS, not just GPS. The coordinates definitely should not be jumping around 50-200 feet at a time if you have a good number of satellites.

EBH



Mar 12, 2023 at 04:41 PM
Mike_5D
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


EB-1 wrote:
Ideally your device should be receiving data from multiple systems like Galileo and GLONASS, not just GPS. The coordinates definitely should not be jumping around 50-200 feet at a time if you have a good number of satellites.

EBH


OK, maybe 200' is an exaggeration, but 50' definitely is within the range of error. I just looked as some soccer photos and some of them show me in places I couldn't have possibly been, such as a neighbor's back yard. I don't know which constellation(s) the Pixel uses.



Mar 12, 2023 at 05:42 PM
Bassat
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


Unless my current gear all dies, I will likely never own a MILC. I don't do sports/action anymore. This thread makes an interesting read for an aging dinosaur who still uses an EOS 650 (film, not digital) and has no problems with 1987-type autofocus. It was relatively nice (sunny, blue skies, white clouds, cold) here in north-central Indiana yesterday. To celebrate the nice spring day, I took a few landscape photos of the neighborhood... with a YashicaMat that dates to 1957. Having to spend a few seconds pondering film speed, lighting, desired aperture, and shutter speed all without the aid of batteries or electronics warms my soul. Photography... as it was meant to be. I started this roll in November. Perhaps I'll finish this month or next. I can't wait to see how it turns out.


Mar 13, 2023 at 02:37 AM
rscheffler
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


rscheffler wrote:
Not sure about the R5, if it's more power hungry. With the R6 last fall I was able to stretch two batteries to do over 4000 images at a football game in e-shutter only. But I turned off all power inefficient features except 120fps EVF, flipped the rear display to hide it and avoided reviewing images as much as possible. I think by the end both were approaching 10%.

When I got the R6II I found that by the half of most games, after 2000-3000 images on average, two batteries in the grip were down to around 70% each. The
...Show more
Mike_5D wrote:
I've found it to be as accurate as the GPS data added to photos taken by the phone itself, which is to say, "not very". I have a Pixel 6 and enabled high precision GPS. I can be looking at Google Maps with satellite images on the phone and walk to a corner of my back yard. The blue dot tracks me there and shows exactly where I am. So far, so good. The I take a photo, either with the phone or the R6 linked to the Canon app, and when I bring the photos into LightRoom, it might
...Show more

OK, thanks. I'll have to look into it further. When I tried it, it was accurate at the location where I started the app and synced to the camera. I walked 1-2km over a period of an hour and later photos still showed the same location coordinates as when the app was first started. This was with an R5 or R6 (don't recall exactly right now). When I tried the GPS feature in the R3 (different day and location), it seemed to be more accurate, perhaps because it has a GPS receiver built-in, IIRC.




Mar 13, 2023 at 05:16 AM
melcat
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


rscheffler wrote:
When I tried it, it was accurate at the location where I started the app and synced to the camera. I walked 1-2km over a period of an hour and later photos still showed the same location coordinates as when the app was first started.


It sounds like the app isnít running in the background at all. If itís not running, it canít talk to the camera. You might try this again, but this time when youíve moved 1km unlock the phone and bring the app to the foreground (show it on the screen). Give it time to talk to the camera and then see whether the GPS coordinates are correct.

Iím no iOS expert, but I think an app has to be specially coded to network in the background, and has to be granted permission by the user to do so.



Mar 13, 2023 at 08:47 AM
MarshallG
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


Interesting thread.
I bought my first SLR in 1978, so Iíve been at it for a while. Iíve owned a succession of Canon DSLRÖ a Rebel, 7D, 7D Mark II, and 5D Mark IV. Each time I sold the old to finance the new.

I swapped the 5D4 for a the R5 about 18 months ago. My biggest condition and concern was the lenses. I have f/2.8 versions of the 16-35, the 24-70 and the 70-200. Thatís a big investment and I would not have switched to mirrorless if I had to sell and re-purchase.

Lens compatibility has been perfect. Eliminating the need for microfocus adjustment, and the accuracy of the AF are both huge improvements over my 5D IV, which was already an outstanding camera.

My first and greatest disappointment ó and surprise! ó was the lack of ďblinkiesĒ or zebra stripes for previewing exposure. My remedy is to use 2 second review in the VF with blinkies, but it can be cumbersome to remember to tap the shutter button to dismiss the review when shooting quickly. I think this deficiency is completely unacceptable, as it is one of the key benefits of a mirrorless camera. The feature is available in Video mode so it makes no sense to make it unavailable to stills shooting.

One thing that gave me a lot of difficulty until recently has been setting up AF to work like the 5D4, where you choose a set of focus points and move them with the joystick. By default, the joystick is disabled and you have to change THREE settings in order to enable it. And, since the R5 camera has no crosspoint autofocus points, itís still not as good as the 5DIV in these cases, but it works. To summarize: Eye Detect AF is fantastic, but when youíre shooting a subject that doesnít have eyes and you know where you want to set focusÖ itís a disaster until you learn how to correctly configure it. In my case, the AF-ON button is Servo Eye Detect focus and the * button is Canon DSLR-style autofocus with joystick.

The overall shooting experience is better for me, because the dial on my lens adapter controls aperture. That makes it easier for me to remember that Aperture is on the lens and Shutter is the index finger. ISO, controlled with the other top dial, is a royal PITA, because once I move out of AutoISO itís very cumbersome to put it back. Iíd like to be able to dial a click before ISO 100 to re-enable AutoISO, but I canít. Maybe Iíll figure this out, but itís an aspect I dislike a lot. On the other hand, the viewfinder UI has icons which show which dial controls which setting, and once you know what the icons mean, itís very useful.

I have not enjoyed the learning experience with this camera. Moving from 7D to 7D Mark II was seamless. Many new functions were layered on top of existing ones, and I had to learn them, but it was all improvement, and very consistent. The 5D Mark IV was 99% identical to the 7D2, so it was incredibly easy to switch. You can move back and forth between those two cameras all day and barely know which youíre holding.

But I think Canonís not done a good job with their UI on the mirrorless. They have retained a lot of the old DSLR menu system and structure while adding a LOT of new stuff on top of it, and itís quite confusing. For instance, requiring three separate steps from default settings to enable the AF joystick, all in entirely separate menu areasÖ thatís just not well thought out. The AF Case menu is the same as in the DSLRís, but the camera AF behavior with those modes is completely different. The naming, description and documentation of many functions is not clear enough. And Canonís DPPro RAW editor is not optimized for the Mac M1 CPU, and it cannot handle the high resolution RAW images of the R5.

In the R5C, Canon came up with the truly brilliant idea of creating different menu systems for Stills and Video. But in the R5, I canít even begin to figure out how my Video and Stills settings are either separate or shared. The video settings are seemingly sprinkled all over the menu system. Some are only present in Video mode, while others are not. It would be much easier to use the camera if the Video Menu settings were available only in Video mode and they were store entirely separately from the Stills Menu settings.

My conclusion is that the R5 is much improved over the 5D Mark IV in many ways, but the learning curve is very steep because Canonís UI has not kept pace.



Mar 13, 2023 at 09:13 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


Between having the ability to have the EVF simulate expose, turning on highlight priority, and sometimes overlaying the histogram in the evf as I shoot, I have not had any issues of unintended over exposure, so not having blinkies, just like DSLRs, hasnít been a concern for me personally.


Mar 13, 2023 at 09:40 AM
MarshallG
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


I do a lot of concert photography. There are very often overexposed spotlights in the frame, so the histogram doesn't help, unfortunately.


Mar 13, 2023 at 09:44 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


MarshallG wrote:
But I think Canonís not done a good job with their UI on the mirrorless. They have retained a lot of the old DSLR menu system and structure while adding a LOT of new stuff on top of it, and itís quite confusing.


I agree about the R5. I bought an R7 and used it along side my 5D4 before I decided to go FF mirrorless. I briefly tried an R6II and then opted for the R5. The newer Rs integrate tracking into the AF system much better than the R5 and presumably R6 which treat tracking as a separate AF mode. I configured the R7 fairly quickly for my needs but then spent a lot of time getting the R5 to behave similarly to my R7.

I'm hoping that this rumored major firmware update integrates the R5's AF system like the R3, R6II, and R7.



Mar 13, 2023 at 10:31 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


MarshallG wrote:
I do a lot of concert photography. There are very often overexposed spotlights in the frame, so the histogram doesn't help, unfortunately.


You may want to try using Highlight Priority, it will help a bit with this. I have it on all the time ever since the 7D2.

A histogram would help in a limited manner, it would show that if you have a bunch of things pushed up against the right side, you likely are creating over exposure somewhere in the frame (would be basically the areas that would blink if you had blinkies as an option). However, I am pretty darn sure both blinkies/zebras and histograms work from the JPG, not from the raw on the Canon. So things like your picture styles, etc will impact the results of either of those tools.

Also, if you are exposing for spot lights, then you are very likely really pushing those shadows very hard to reduce the final DR of the image, and that is never that great for noise management, unfortunately. But you aleady know that.

Edited on Mar 13, 2023 at 11:22 AM · View previous versions



Mar 13, 2023 at 11:20 AM
Mike_5D
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


Jeff Nolten wrote:
I agree about the R5. I bought an R7 and used it along side my 5D4 before I decided to go FF mirrorless. I briefly tried an R6II and then opted for the R5. The newer Rs integrate tracking into the AF system much better than the R5 and presumably R6 which treat tracking as a separate AF mode. I configured the R7 fairly quickly for my needs but then spent a lot of time getting the R5 to behave similarly to my R7.

I'm hoping that this rumored major firmware update integrates the R5's AF system like the R3,
...Show more

If every AF method does tracking, how do you get it NOT to track? I have an AF button set to a non-tracking method specifically for when tracking doesn't work. Do you have to go into a menu and turn it on/off? Do you dedicate a button to toggle it? Can you customize each AF method independently? So, for example, spot AF doesn't track, but wide zone does?



Mar 13, 2023 at 11:22 AM
MarshallG
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless




TeamSpeed wrote:
You may want to try using Highlight Priority, it will help a bit with this. I have it on all the time ever since the 7D2.

A histogram would help in a limited manner, it would show that if you have a bunch of things pushed up against the right side, you likely are creating over exposure somewhere in the frame (would be basically the areas that would blink if you had blinkies as an option). However, I am pretty darn sure both blinkies/zebras and histograms work from the JPG, not from the raw on the Canon. So things like your
...Show more
I donít think you understand.
If thereís a spotlight in the photo, itís going to be blown out. Iíll crop it out or whatever. Youíre going to have some blown out spotlights and areas of solid black. Thatís the nature of the genre.

So, yeah, if you try to expose a concert photo by using the histogram, the performer will be WAY underexposed. The histogram just doesnít work when you know something in the frame will be deliberately blown out. You only care about the reflected light coming off of the performer. Little else matters.

BesidesÖ Canon put zebra stripes in the camera! Theyíre available if youíre shooting video, but not for stills. Other mirrorless cameras have the feature.



Mar 13, 2023 at 12:01 PM
MarshallG
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless




Jeff Nolten wrote:
I agree about the R5. I bought an R7 and used it along side my 5D4 before I decided to go FF mirrorless. I briefly tried an R6II and then opted for the R5. The newer Rs integrate tracking into the AF system much better than the R5 and presumably R6 which treat tracking as a separate AF mode. I configured the R7 fairly quickly for my needs but then spent a lot of time getting the R5 to behave similarly to my R7.

I'm hoping that this rumored major firmware update integrates the R5's AF system like the R3,
...Show more
The two button AF method is working for me now. It could use a little improvement, but overall the camera focuses better than the DSLRs.



Mar 13, 2023 at 12:03 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


Mike_5D wrote:
If every AF method does tracking, how do you get it NOT to track?


I configure my back buttons a bit different than most since I don't use back button focus (with one R5 exception). So on both the R7 and R5 the AF-ON button toggles servo mode. This allows me to easily switch between tracking/servo and one shot no matter what AF area one is in. When you use this the viewfinder tells you whether servo is on or off.

On the R7 the AF area select button is also the magnify button in image review mode. It loses this function if one customizes it so I don't. I have the * button set to scroll through a limited selection of AF areas. I don't customize the R7 much since this is also my wife's camera and she likes it simple. On the R7 if you select whole area AF you get eye tracking.

The R5 is more complicated but the AF-ON button works the same way. I've set the rear dial to quickly scroll through a limited set of AF areas or modes. Only the face tracking mode does eye tracking and I have that set to start tracking from the AF point controlled by the joy stick. The spot and single point AF modes don't do tracking on the R5. (This is what I hope will change with the firmware update.) The larger areas do tracking but not eye tracking.

I'm generally in face tracking mode since that is also single point mode and use tracking to focus and recompose. I turn off servo when tracking gets too jittery. I have the * button set to toggle eye tracking because turning that off seems to help tracking of subjects that don't have eyes. The missing mode in this scheme is the whole area face and eye detect that one would use for birds in the sky for example. I have the AF point select button (rightmost) set as a back button focus in this whole area eye tracking mode.

Now I'll quickly add that I haven't used this layout a lot in the field so I may have to change things a bit. I find the top two dials adequate for changing Av aperture and exposure compensation. I've also found the default M-Fn button method of changing ISO and frame rate adequate for my needs. I'm usually in auto ISO, single shot, and mechanical shutter. Custom mode C1 takes me to electronic shutter and high frame rate.

I'll add that my default video mode is 4K 60 IPB light. One has to set this in video mode C3. Took me a long time to figure this out. As others have said, the R5 is a lot more complicated to configure and I'm still figuring all this out. I like the layout and control system of the R7 better than the R5. If Canon were to make an RF-S lens equivalent to the 24-105. Say a quality 15-60 f4 I might just get my own R7. I'm not holding my breath.



Mar 13, 2023 at 12:49 PM
MarshallG
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless




Mike_5D wrote:
If every AF method does tracking, how do you get it NOT to track? I have an AF button set to a non-tracking method specifically for when tracking doesn't work. Do you have to go into a menu and turn it on/off? Do you dedicate a button to toggle it? Can you customize each AF method independently? So, for example, spot AF doesn't track, but wide zone does?

I started a thread today which answers this question.



Mar 13, 2023 at 04:42 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless


MarshallG wrote:
I donít think you understand.
If thereís a spotlight in the photo, itís going to be blown out. Iíll crop it out or whatever. Youíre going to have some blown out spotlights and areas of solid black. Thatís the nature of the genre.

So, yeah, if you try to expose a concert photo by using the histogram, the performer will be WAY underexposed. The histogram just doesnít work when you know something in the frame will be deliberately blown out. You only care about the reflected light coming off of the performer. Little else matters.

BesidesÖ Canon put zebra stripes in
...Show more

I do understand, I do periodically shoot bands on stage. However I use auto ISO in manual mode, I have HTP turned on and use spot metering mode, and use EC to ďseasonĒ the end results. Depending on the camera I use, one may meter at the AF point, others may not, so I am aware of this going in. I also use EVF simulated exposure so it gives me a pretty good idea of what I am about to capture.



Mar 13, 2023 at 05:01 PM
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