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Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

marsguy
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

As someone who has been shooting mirrorless landscape/abstract/street/travel (as an enthusiast), I'd say DSLRs are dead, and have been for a while. Mirrorless makes sense for pretty much everyone unless you're missing some super specific feature from a DSLR, or you're strapped for cash and currently happy with what you've got. The bodies are smaller, lighter, and more advanced in almost every way. Maybe sports and journalism demanded higher end AF and burst rates than what even the best mirrorless bodies could provide up until a few years ago, but with today's offerings from Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fujifilm, and Panasonic, I think most would be hard pressed to find any ways their DSLR is still superior, at ANY price point.

I used a handful of low end DSLRs 10-15 years ago, with middling experiences as a result, but jumped right into a Fuji X-E2 back in 2015 for many reasons. Live exposure and focus of the image, focus peaking, great colors, and good DR were all on my list, in addition to the excellent small form factor given the APS-C sensor. I used that camera and loved it for years, eventually upgrading to the X-T bodies, which I've taken on numerous trips to beautiful nature destinations as well as busy cities. The benefits of mirrorless have always been pretty obvious to me, and mirrorless cameras have been around long before Canon dropped the R5/R6, so the recent novelty for DSLR shooters switching to mirrorless gives me a chuckle. Welcome to the club y'all.

Oh, and as for my Canon experience, well I just got an R5, for higher resolution (cropping and prints), slightly better DR, and 4K120, compared to my X-T4. I wanted to upgrade within the X system but Fuji just didn't deliver what I wanted in a single body and I'm not waiting another 2 years for them. I'll keep some XF lenses for small and light X-T4 shooting, but the R5 will be the new workhorse. It's still lighter and smaller than an equivalent DSLR, though unfortunately Canon made sure to keep their bodies as ugly and soulless as possible.

Mar 07, 2023 at 12:44 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

Though still not as ugly as Nikon's 6 and 7 and not as soulless as Sony.

IMO the retro shutter speed and aperture dials that adorn certain models don't necessarily equate to better (stills) usability (and I say this as also a Leica M user).

The recent 'novelty' of switching to mirrorless for Canon users may be more because mirrorless cameras across the board finally actually outperform Canon's better DSLRs in most significant technical measures. And fortunately Canon finally also has suitably performing mirrorless options. This was not the case back in 2015 when mirrorless systems were still rough around the edges, unless you were stuck using entry-level DSLRs due to budgetary limitations, among other reasons.

IMO it's not solely a matter of which system is hands down technically superior. It really depends on your needs and expectations because there's a huge area of performance overlap when comparing both systems.

Mar 07, 2023 at 02:12 PM

Mike_5D
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

rscheffler wrote:
Though still not as ugly as Nikon's 6 and 7 and not as soulless as Sony.

IMO the retro shutter speed and aperture dials that adorn certain models don't necessarily equate to better (stills) usability (and I say this as also a Leica M user).

The recent 'novelty' of switching to mirrorless for Canon users may be more because mirrorless cameras across the board finally actually outperform Canon's better DSLRs in most significant technical measures. And fortunately Canon finally also has suitably performing mirrorless options. This was not the case back in 2015 when mirrorless systems were still rough...Show more →

I have owned one of those cameras with retro dials. I wanted to like the interface more than I really did in practice. Despite being smaller and lighter than my Canon DSLRs, it was less comfortable to hold with one hand. Changing settings with the viewfinder to my eye in a fast-paced environment was more awkward.

Owning a 5D3 and 7D2, the bar for performance was pretty high. While I did own a couple of mirrorless cameras as secondary camera, they weren't a match for my DSLRs back then. Most of my subjects move, further raising the bar for any camera.

Mar 07, 2023 at 03:44 PM

AmbientMike
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

DSLR's are dead, that's the reason the 5D4 is still in the top 10 of rentals at Lensrentals last year. And that's on a 6+ year old body! Imagine if they'd kept up EF line.

I don't think I've ever owned an ugly Canon DSLR

BTW I bought my first mirrorless in 2010

Mar 07, 2023 at 06:14 PM

Mike_5D
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

Mar 07, 2023 at 06:47 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

AmbientMike wrote:
DSLR's are dead, that's the reason the 5D4 is still in the top 10 of rentals at Lensrentals last year. And that's on a 6+ year old body!

That is because for all essential purposes the 5D4's 30 MP sensor is as good as it gets. 5D4s are still in the top 10 because they get the job done. Mirrorless brings a lot of gimmicky techno crap like eye tracking. But really, I've been shooting digital since the 10D and film way longer than that. I've never really had an issue keeping eyes in focus. Eye tracking is nice, photographers can be a lot lazier now and less skilled.

Yes, I bought an R7 and R5 but I'm not fooling myself into thinking that my basic keeper rate or image quality will be revolutionized. Many of you have been in the biz for decades now. Are all the images you've taken crap compared to what you are getting now? I was successfully capturing birds in flight with a 5D2 and I'm not particularly practiced or skilled.

DSLRs are dead because manufactures have stopped putting design and sales effort into them. With modern electronics, mirrorless is the cheaper way forward for them. Mechanics is expensive and electronics is cheap. Not singling you out Mike, just trying to keep it real here.

Mar 07, 2023 at 08:48 PM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

Mike_5D wrote:
The 90D and 1DxIII showed that DSLRs had basically got as far as they could. Both performed better in live view than through the OVF. The next logical step was to dispense with the OVF.

I shoot with a 90D for several years and, while LV was very good, especially for copying sides, I got the most keepers using the optical VF. In twilight, LV had a tough time focusing whereas the OVF focus usually nailed it.

Mar 07, 2023 at 10:10 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

I guess it depends what you shoot. For moving people at wider apertures in good light, my 90D hit rate in live view was noticeably better and more consistent than through the OVF. To the point where I generally avoided using the OVF.

I also guess it depends on how critical one is about good focus. My experience with the likes of the 1DXII and prior was that with off-center subjects at half-body length distances, at wider apertures, focus point on the eye was hit or miss, especially if there was movement, like someone walking. I was sold on mirrorless when I was able to get consistently correct focus on the eyes of people walking down an aisle at ISO 6400 1/125 @ f/2 with the 28-70 on the R6. Mirrorless certainly is not flawless, but it does some heavy lifting better than what I experienced with DSLRs in certain situations. There's also a difference between creative keeper rate and technical keeper rate. In this discussion I'm only concerned about the technical quality keeper rate, and for me, mirrorless is a major leap forward, just like AF was over MF, IMO. AF consistency is simply much better and it sustains it at 20, 30, 40 fps, giving me a much wider selection of usable images from which to select the best ones. Not that I shoot everything at 20 or 40fps (just some sports). This consistency also translates into greater confidence the camera will nail focus the first time and means less need to shoot extra just in case.

Has it made me a creatively better photographer? No. That's on me and not the camera. (Waiting for Canon to release the AI-driven 'creative boost' firmware update.

)

Mar 08, 2023 at 12:30 AM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

AmbientMike wrote:
DSLR's are dead, that's the reason the 5D4 is still in the top 10 of rentals at Lensrentals last year. And that's on a 6+ year old body! Imagine if they'd kept up EF line.

I don't think I've ever owned an ugly Canon DSLR

BTW I bought my first mirrorless in 2010

o rental numbers means nothing, when we say DSLRs are dead, that men’ means from a manufacturing standpoint, NO MORE DSLRs… and I imagine a rental of a 5D4, one of canon’s best cameras, is a bit cheaper than some of the newer mirrorless, but maybe not?

o whatever mirrorless you had in 2010 would be so very inferior compared to today’s models

o buy a mirrorless, or don’t, it’s your choice, but the future is VERY clear now, and isn’t muddied like maybe 2-3 years ago.

Mar 08, 2023 at 03:00 AM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

Gochugogi wrote:
I shoot with a 90D for several years and, while LV was very good, especially for copying sides, I got the most keepers using the optical VF. In twilight, LV had a tough time focusing whereas the OVF focus usually nailed it.

Yes there are two areas where the mirrorless needs some improvements. 1) low light low contrast AF isn’t quite “there” yet and I think once there is quad pixel AF, the other proverbial shoe has fallen. 2) spot AF needs improved.

However low light shots have such low DR that many times the images aren’t all that great with lack of color and contrast anyways, but if you still want the capture with mirrorless, you can use manual focus with focus peaking, something the 90D didn’t have I don’t think.

I am also pretty sure the AF on the R7 (the 90D mirrorless equiv) is different than the 90D live view. Not only that, a Digic X is many many times more capable than a Digic 8.

Mar 08, 2023 at 03:06 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

I had the R72 and 5D4. About 8 months after the release of the R I purchased it and sold my 5D4. I was lucky because around that time Canon had released FW updates that made huge AF improvements. The AF was so much fun the 7D2 never came out of the bag. I was shooting BIF with my EF100-400 and 2X. I also picked up the R5-24-105 f4.

When the R5 came out I decided to get on the R system train. Sold all my EF gear and the R for the R5 and picked up the RF100-500. I did not have any issues using an adapter but I refer not to use it. R bodies = no MFA which I never liked. A big PITA for me.

I only have one regret - selling the R. For my urban hobby shooting and even landscapes I prefer lower megapixels for what I do. I decided to sell the R5 and picked up the R7 and R6II. I kicked myself a bit because I had a great walk around body but the R6II has proven itself to be quite a good upgrade from the R for AF, etc.

This is the first time I have been a little disappointed with Canon. I feel like they cheaped out on the shutter with the R7. I don't regret getting it and I'm doing well even with the 1.4 attached. I'll likely get the next version.

So no regrets so far. I'm happy with the path I took and I will never go back to a DSLR.

24mp has surprised me and the sensor is very clean. Shot with my RF 24-105.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1788493/16#16187851

For sports, car races I'll likely use it over my R7 but we will see. I may attend this at the end of the month. I'm not sure how close I can get and if I can bring the big guns un.

https://autodromodoalgarve.com/race-calendar/motogp-portuguese-grand-prix-2023/

Mar 08, 2023 at 04:47 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

I was being a bit facetious calling sensor based AF techno crap. It has brought new capabilities to these cameras and many improvements will continue to be developed. Where these improvements enhance image capture, they are great. Likewise the 20-40 FPS electronic shutter modes wouldn't be possible using an OVF. The R3 style sensor shows promise to improve image quality in addition to speed. If costs can be reduced, we shall see.

The 24-32 MP APS-C and 30-56 MP DSLRs remain quite capable and are simpler to use for many people. The future is mirrorless but the present shouldn't be written off too quickly.

Mar 08, 2023 at 11:39 AM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

TeamSpeed wrote:
Yes there are two areas where the mirrorless needs some improvements. 1) low light low contrast AF isn’t quite “there” yet and I think once there is quad pixel AF, the other proverbial shoe has fallen. 2) spot AF needs improved.

However low light shots have such low DR that many times the images aren’t all that great with lack of color and contrast anyways, but if you still want the capture with mirrorless, you can use manual focus with focus peaking, something the 90D didn’t have I don’t think.

I am also pretty sure the AF on the R7...Show more →

My R7 dances circles around my old 90D in terms of AF in most situations, especially tracking/servo. The R7 does struggle on subjects with strong horizontal lines—tilt the camera to work around it—and clouds are another weak point. Somehow clouds are not challenging for the 90D. That's pretty much it. I sold my 90D last Summer after using the R7 for a few weeks.

Edited on Mar 08, 2023 at 12:35 PM · View previous versions

Mar 08, 2023 at 12:24 PM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

Zenon Char wrote:
I only have one regret - selling the R. For my urban hobby shooting and even landscapes I prefer lower megapixels for what I do. I decided to sell the R5 and picked up the R7 and R6II. I kicked myself a bit because I had a great walk around body but the R6II has proven itself to be quite a good upgrade from the R for AF, etc.

I still still enjoy shooting with the R, although I also own the R7 and R6 MK II. It's a much maligned camera on these boards but I love the image quality and the file size is perfect for landscape. Even like the touch bar and prefer it over a joy stick. Wish the R6 MK II had the same sized CMOS as the R...

Mar 08, 2023 at 12:32 PM

AmbientMike
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

Jeff Nolten wrote:
That is because for all essential purposes the 5D4's 30 MP sensor is as good as it gets. 5D4s are still in the top 10 because they get the job done. Mirrorless brings a lot of gimmicky techno crap like eye tracking. But really, I've been shooting digital since the 10D and film way longer than that. I've never really had an issue keeping eyes in focus. Eye tracking is nice, photographers can be a lot lazier now and less skilled.

Yes, I bought an R7 and R5 but I'm not fooling myself into thinking that my basic keeper rate...Show more →

I agree. That's been a really irritating part of mirrorless. The reasons people switch that have nothing to do with if they are actually getting better photos. Like corporate profits potentially leading to more mirrorless , mirrorless potentially cheaper to make.

Once I realized that there isn't likely to be enough R&D for both, and we were probably getting mirrorless whether we like it or not, I soured on mirrorless. And did people actually use iso 100 to get the DR that was supposedly so important, or just buy into a bunch of Sony marketing, trying to sell cameras having shutter shock issues, lens mount issues, and a rebel sized battery powering the EVF?

How many just followed the crowd? Or bought into it because they read about it online? Seeing nonsensical "mirrorless is the future! " arguments vs actual debate on mirrorless being better for the intended use. Lots if group dynamics involved, too. If you didn't join the mirrorless group, you were ostracized. Really had little or nothing to do with if it is better or not.

Mar 08, 2023 at 01:03 PM

PhilH
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

I think it's safe to say compared to last generation DSLRs that perhaps the biggest gains outside of cameras of lesser size and weight w/ native RF mount glass equivalents is improvements in AF performance, AF speed, general camera operation, and similar.

It is true that there are cost savings on the manufacturers side by going with shorter flange depth mounts, but there's also gains when it comes to optics. Particularly on the wide angle end of things as well as increasing speed and quality.

There's some more technical related stuff that we haven't seen the full story on. Particularly the RF Mount protocol and new lens motors in the RF series lenses. We very literally haven't seen everything this new mount can do, but I suspect more soon on that front once "certain types" of lenses come out.
Some of those new motors are absurdly good compared to older EF versions, not to mention the optics themselves are notably improved.

An R3 and even R5 with autofocus RF glass is pretty much a Ferrari situation right now when it comes to a shooting experience with only minor quibbles. Similarly for motion AF performance, but that will still needs more development for people to "love it" from all manufacturers. I am actually mostly a manual focuser when it comes to most of my work and I have enjoyed the newer EVFs and LCDs as well as the quickness to punch in and out as needed.

Only real issue with RF right now is more glass and bodies for specific shooters.

And I will say, you can adapt damn near everything to RF mount minus some of the newer shorter flange mounts. That would be expected considering how each manufacturer wants to box you into their ecosystem for the most part.

Mar 08, 2023 at 06:26 PM

lensfan
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

For me worst thing about mirrorless compared to DSLR: you can keep DSLR 'always on' and ready to shoot, while mirrorless need infinity to wake up.

Mar 08, 2023 at 07:28 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

I can do the same on my R6. If I don't use the camera for about 5-10sec, it "shuts" down, all screens go black and IS turns off. When I just half press the shutter, it is back up and ready to go.

Mar 08, 2023 at 07:50 PM

tshore
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

I got my R5 shortly after it was released. I've used it primarily for birds and wildlife, with the RF100-500 usually with a 1.4x, and it's been a game-changer. Previously I had been shooting a 7Dii with a 100-400ii, and before that 1Div, 6D, and 7Di with various EF teles. The animal eye EF works brilliantly, and eliminates the need to put a specific focal point on the eye. The ability to have full, fast, accurate AF at f/10 - which is the widest my lens combo provides - means I can make this combo work in pretty much any situation where there is adequate light. Shooting at 12fps RAW, the buffer is effectively unlimited. I'm effectively putting 2x the pixels on the subject vs my DSLRs, with a higher frame rate, better AF, an unlimited buffer. What's not to like?

Downsides? It does seem to drain batteries at about 3x the rate of a DSLR, but not really a big issue if you use a battery grip. Also, every once in a while, it will simply freeze up and everything will go blank. In my experience it can be addressed by switching off, pulling out the battery for a second, re-inserting and re-starting. It doesn't happen often (maybe once every few months), but it can be an issue. Probably the most important sort-of-downside is that the aesthetic experience of looking in the viewfinder is subtly different than in a DSLR. Looking at a screen, no matter how good the resolution, doesn't provide the same type of sensory connection as seeing the actual scene through an optical viewfinder.

Mar 09, 2023 at 04:00 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Experience from DSLR to Mirrorless

tshore wrote:
I got my R5 shortly after it was released. I've used it primarily for birds and wildlife, with the RF100-500 usually with a 1.4x, and it's been a game-changer. Previously I had been shooting a 7Dii with a 100-400ii, and before that 1Div, 6D, and 7Di with various EF teles. The animal eye EF works brilliantly, and eliminates the need to put a specific focal point on the eye. The ability to have full, fast, accurate AF at f/10 - which is the widest my lens combo provides - means I can make this combo work in pretty much any...Show more →

1) do you have things like GPS, wifi, etc on?

2) do you have the ECO mode turned on?

3) you are not putting twice the pixels on target with the R5 over the 7D2, in fact you are only getting about 56% of pixels on target over the 7D2, but if you add the fact you can go to 500mm over 400mm, then you are still only at about 70% of the pixels. Add the 1.4x and you might be nearly at the same pixel density per duck as the 7D2 and just the 100-400.

4) The EVF is much better than OVF in certain situations though despite OVF really providing that touch with reality. I think the best analogy is that EVF is much like today's latest steer-by-wire vehicles where you have lost sense of the road, but can be beneficial in certain situations. Macro shooting using focus peaking, seeing the exposure simulation before the shot, etc provide some useful things not available with a DSLR OVF. But I agree with you, I do sometimes miss that OVF.

Mar 09, 2023 at 04:32 PM

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