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Archive 2023 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!

  
 
bs kite
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


The following quotes are excerpts I recorded/transcribed from Steve Perry's AutoFocus section in the below video.

Steve Perry's words on Z9 AF vs A1 AF.......

“Auto focus …..now the one you've been waiting for right? Well this segment is going to be shorter than you might expect. Although I'd love to pick a winner here, I just can't with each camera running the current firmware, they both seem equally tenacious when it comes to finding grabbing and holding onto a subject.”

“The bottom line is that although I'd love to declare a winner here so far in my uses with the current firmware it's so close that it really doesn't matter. At one time I would have told you that if you're looking for the best AF system A1 had the advantage now from a practical standpoint with the current firmware I think it's a toss up.”

“Nikon Z9 animal setting covers both birds and mammals where the A1 requires you to switch between bird and animal in the field.”

“My wife and I have been shooting both systems side by side comparing notes and swapping gear in every case we're both seeing consistent success with both cameras. Naturally we can't try every animal and in some specific cases the A1 seems to have a slight edge and in other cases the Z 9 does. But it's always very close at least with the targets we've been photographing. And that's the key here. I'm sure there are scenarios where one camera may have a significant noticeable advantage over the other I just haven't stumbled upon it yet with the current firmware.”









Feb 25, 2023 at 07:15 AM
miraclemax
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


Thanks for posting this. What an innovative use of picture profiles!

Eric214 wrote:
There is a Picture Profile you can load into the camera that someone made that gives real time blown highlights in the EVF for stills. Not zebras but more like blinkies. It just turns any highlights in the EVF black. I have been using it since maybe march or April of last year.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4611664



Feb 25, 2023 at 11:05 AM
ArizonaImage
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


According to NR, Nikon has an event for March 25th


Feb 25, 2023 at 07:20 PM
arbitrage
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


novalaker wrote:
Question, is the Sony A1 AF that much faster than the A7IV and A7RV? Because from what I can see, the latter are pretty damn impressive, neither of which are stacked. So how much of AF speed is sensor readout vs. algorithm?


They are not even close. Even the old original A9 blows those two cameras away for fast action AF.

Now actual perched bird Eye-AF is better in the A7RV due to the extra AI processor. But nothing can make up for a stacked sensor. The Canon R5 is the only non-stacked sensor that has come close to matching a stacked one. Sony non-stacked are some of the slowest scanning sensors out there.



Feb 26, 2023 at 09:00 AM
arbitrage
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


novalaker wrote:
I understand that A7R5 has an entire chip, but the A7IV does not, correct? And it also has very reliable AF, so has anyone compared the A7IV AF to the Z9? Can it compete? Or is the A7IV a step behind and maybe what we should expect from a non-stacked Nikon sensor with the Expeed 7 processors?


Z9 over everything from Sony other than A1 and according to Steve Perry the Z9 and A1 are neck and neck now. Canon R3 and R5 are up there also.
Nothing else is going to compete with Z9 that is out there currently.



Feb 26, 2023 at 09:04 AM
molson
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


arbitrage wrote:
Now actual perched bird Eye-AF is better in the A7RV due to the extra AI processor.


Is it, though? I had an A7R V for a couple of days, and trying to photograph ducks on the water, the bird detect AF chose a nearby rock or a ripple in the water more often that it chose a bird. The OM-1 I had with me at the time had no such issues, and I ended up returning the Sony.



Feb 26, 2023 at 10:00 AM
1bwana1
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


SZo, it looks like we will have a very big announcement on March 25th. About a Month away, so I anticipate leaks starting soon.

I have my own ideas on what is comming.

I think it will be the Z8 getting announced, with deliver in limited quantities in the following 60 days. Possibly, also a Z6III/Z7III development announcement with a rough release date, and only enough specifications to provide some clarity as to the positioning of each of these camera lines. At this time I don't expect the Z6III/Z7III cameras to have stacked sensors.

I think that Nikon is looking for the Z8 to be its standard bodied all arounder camera. If you remember the "Z9 is another D3 moment" for Nikon statements? I think you will see the Z8 being launched as another "D850 moment". It doesn't make sense for this camera to be the high mpx competator to the A7RV. If that were the case why even carry on with the Z7III which should be the high mpx competator.

Given that view, here is what I expect is likely to happen. The Z8 will be the Nikon "all arounder" . It's form factor will be very much like if you just cut the battery grip bottom off the Z9. Button and control placement will match the Z9. But likely with even more configurability options. I do expect that it will be a stacked sensor. I think this is required of an all arounder these days. But it will have resolution closer to the mid 30 mpx. Therefore, it will compete more directly with the Sony A9 III that is also coming soon than it will the Z9/A1. The difference cannot be just form factor. It's other specs will most closely match the Z9.

Once the Z9, Z8, Z6III/Z7III, cameras are all launced and on the market, the catch up days are over. Nikon will have a comprehensive, competent, current technology, lineup of cameras on the market. That will be great for all of us.

Of course the question (does it even matter much?) of who makes the sensor for the Z9, and now possibly the Z8 stacked sensor remains. I know the convential thinking these days is that the Z9 sensor is made by Sony. Teardowns of the Z9 show Sony part numbers on the sensor, so this seems confirmed. But it occurs to me that there remains the possiblity of another, hybrid answer to this question. It is entirely posible that Sony does make the base wafer for the sensor. It would therefor show the Sony part number. But as it is a stacked sensor solution there are multiple other layers that contain memory, and processing stacked on the base layer. What if another vendor such as Tower is doing that work? It would not be the first time such things have been done. Tower has announced liscensing technologies to do just such things. That would account for all the conflicting things drifting around about this subject. What if everone is right? Interesting things to ponder about.

Most of the things I speculate about above will be confirmed or not in about a Month. Some maybe sooner through leaks. For sure there are those out there who already have had this camera in hand for some time now. One thing I am convinced you will hear about from the Nikon people, whether employees, Ambassadors, or supportive media, is that Nikon is about to have another D850 moment. It will be a theme...



Feb 26, 2023 at 03:05 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


molson wrote:
Is it, though? I had an A7R V for a couple of days, and trying to photograph ducks on the water, the bird detect AF chose a nearby rock or a ripple in the water more often that it chose a bird. The OM-1 I had with me at the time had no such issues, and I ended up returning the Sony.


From what I have seen the A7RV is better with people than the A1. It is probably also better picking out perched birds between the branches of trees and bushes. But no way does it provide better AF, or user experience when things start going fast. You need a stacked sensor for that, and the A7IV/A7V sensor is dog slow compared to stackes sensors.



Feb 26, 2023 at 03:09 PM
molson
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


1bwana1 wrote:
I think it will be the Z8 getting announced, with deliver in limited quantities in the following 60 days.


Considering Nikon briefed dealers on the Z8 back in August of last year, we know it has to show up sooner or later... I just wonder why there has been such a long delay before announcing it.



Feb 26, 2023 at 03:19 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


1bwana1 wrote:
From what I have seen the A7RV is better with people than the A1. It is probably also better picking out perched birds between the branches of trees and bushes. But no way does it provide better AF, or user experience when things start going fast. You need a stacked sensor for that, and the A7IV/A7V sensor is dog slow compared to stackes sensors.


From all the reports I think the simple generalization is that the A7rV works better for stationary objects but the A1 works better for moving objects. I don't see that as a very positive thing for the A7rV. Almost every camera nowadays (including my manual focus only Leica M) can do very well with stationary objects. The A7rV might get 99% in focus versus 98% for another camera, but the real challenge for AF is moving objects and especially faster moving objects and the A7rV still has some significant challenges with that compared to stacked sensor cameras.

I hope I am wrong but I expect the Z8 to be a competitor with the A7rV. It is only a guess but I think the Z8 was delayed to make it a better competitor with the A7rV. I expect it to have some tweaks the A7rV does not. Most notably ISO 64, but what else it has will be interesting to see. I don't expect it to match the AF of the A7rV, but since neither camera is going to be that great for shooting moving and especially fast moving targets I don't think that should be such much of an indictment of the camera. I think some reviewers (i.e., Fro), however, will react quite negatively to the camera based on that. I think it will be a nice upgrade, however, for many Z7 and Z7 II shooters and it will be an excellent camera for many genres of shooting (landscape, macro, architecture, portrait). It just won't be for me and I would prefer my Leica M for most things this camera will be excellent at.

I wish the Z8 were going to be a smaller Z9, but I don't think that is going to happen for awhile. That 45 MP stacked sensor in a smaller body would be the camera that I am looking for and would buy, but I don't think Nikon is going to build that camera for at least another year.



Feb 26, 2023 at 04:34 PM
bs kite
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


When announcing intentions to build the Z9, the Nikon exec said that they would replace the flagship (D6) with a mirrorless flagship. The Z9 is the Nikon flagship. So, that is the reason it is bigger and heavier than many would like.

Also, the Z9 is slightly smaller and lighter weight than my gripped D850. And I never take the grip off my D850.

Disclaimer.....

I may be wrong about any of the following.

I feel confident about a couple of things regarding the upcoming 2-piece, Z camera from Nikon. I will also call it the Z8 here.

I too believe that this will be the “mirrorless D850” (if you will )

I feel Nikon has built the most that they feel they could into this Z8.

Nikon wants to do this for Nikon shooters. That is the way they think. I question whether Nikon is ever concerned about “cannibalizing” one of their other pieces. I do not believe this Z8 will be dumbed-down too much. It will be stacked and have the latest Expeed processor (7?).

They’ve probably just slowed the fps somewhat from the Z9 and omitted some other features. Think just a few years ago when we considered the D5/D6 as very fast (only 14 fps right?). At that same time the D850 was 7 fps or 10 with the grip. Nikon may have slowed the Z8 down to say 15 fps (tops) and omitted a group of other Z9 features.... and that might be all. If that happens, a lot of folks are going to be very excited about this camera. We'll see.

Question (because I do not know the answer) Is there such a thing as a 60 mpx camera that has stacked sensors?

I’ve always reminded myself that the Z9 is a flagship.

The D850 (at 45 mpx) was announced in 2017 *after* the 20+ mpx D5 flagship. So, they increased the mpx for the D850.
Following that rationale, why would the upcoming Z8 not be "higher-again" in mpx's (say.... 60+)?

Honestly, I do not care if the Z8 is 45 or 60. I think 45 is a sweet spot.


Edited on Feb 27, 2023 at 08:43 AM · View previous versions



Feb 26, 2023 at 05:05 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


bs kite wrote:
When announcing intentions to build the Z9, the Nikon exec said that they would replace the flagship (D6) with a mirrorless flagship. The Z9 is the Nikon flagship. So, that is the reason it is bigger and heavier than many would like.

Also, the Z9 is slightly smaller and lighter weight than my gripped D850. And I never take the grip off my D850.

Disclaimer.....

I may be wrong about any of the following regarding this upcoming camera. Here goes…….

I feel confident about a thing or two regarding the upcoming 2-piece, Z camera from Nikon. I will also call it
...Show more

There hasn't been a 60 MP stacked sensor yet. The Sony A1 is a 50 MP stacked sensor and is I believe the highest resolution stacked sensor that has been made.

Stacked sensors are great for many things, (fast tracking AF, blackout free viewfinder, silent shooting without distortion), but IQ is usually at least just a little better with a non-stacked sensor. For example here is a chart comparing the photographic dynamic range for the Z7 II and the Z9. At lower ISOs, the Z7 II has just a bit better photographic dynamic range:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20Z%207II,Nikon%20Z%209

So, depending on what you shoot and what your priorities are a stacked sensor may or may not be better. For me personally, I would like a stacked sensor, but I can see why others would prefer a higher resolution non-stacked sensor. I could think of either type of camera as a successor to the D850.



Feb 26, 2023 at 08:58 PM
suteetat
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


Give me stacked sensor. If nothing else, I really like lag free, blackout free EVF
As much as I like Z7 ii, even for everyday non wildlife, non action shoot, I still take out Z9 more
often than Z7 ii. I do use Z7 ii more for on tripod landscape shot for slightly better DR but
that's about it.
A couple of people at Nikon Thailand already told me that Z8 will be another D850 moment for Nikon.
A bit cryptic and not much useful information there except for get your credit card ready and
better reserve sooner rather than later.



Feb 26, 2023 at 09:03 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


suteetat wrote:
A couple of people at Nikon Thailand already told me that Z8 will be another D850 moment for Nikon.


And so the marketing positioning begins...



Feb 26, 2023 at 09:41 PM
RoamingScott
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


A stacked sensor gripless Z9 will make people whine about price.

A non stacked 61mp sensor will make people whine about noise.

A non stacked 45mp sensor will make people whine about blackout.

Either way, whatever it ends up being is surely the end of Nikon, this time, for real.



Feb 26, 2023 at 09:49 PM
groob
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!




1bwana1 wrote:
SZo, it looks like we will have a very big announcement on March 25th. About a Month away, so I anticipate leaks starting soon.

I have my own ideas on what is comming.

I think it will be the Z8 getting announced, with deliver in limited quantities in the following 60 days. Possibly, also a Z6III/Z7III development announcement with a rough release date, and only enough specifications to provide some clarity as to the positioning of each of these camera lines. At this time I don't expect the Z6III/Z7III cameras to have stacked sensors.

I think that Nikon is looking for the Z8
...Show more

I’m not a business guy, but wouldn’t using the Z9 sensor save Nikon money and therefore make it easier to produce an affordable stacked sensor prosumer camera?



Feb 26, 2023 at 10:35 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


RoamingScott wrote:
A stacked sensor gripless Z9 will make people whine about price.

A non stacked 61mp sensor will make people whine about noise.

A non stacked 45mp sensor will make people whine about blackout.

Either way, whatever it ends up being is surely the end of Nikon, this time, for real.


I realize this was written tounge in cheek. But I think this camera is going to be a huge hit for Nikon. The mirrorless Nikon D850 with all the new bells and whistles is what everyone has been waiting for. It is what I really wanted when I pre-ordered the original Z7. Talk about dissapointment...



Feb 26, 2023 at 10:52 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


groob wrote:
I’m not a business guy, but wouldn’t using the Z9 sensor save Nikon money and therefore make it easier to produce an affordable stacked sensor prosumer camera?


Yes I think probably this is true. But what I am hearing is that the Z8 has been held up for months by supply issues with its new sensor. The specs of this new sensor are very closely guarded so no info about it yet. I expect leaks to start shortly.




Feb 26, 2023 at 10:55 PM
JadedWriter
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


New sensor rules out this being a gripless Z9 then.


Feb 26, 2023 at 11:01 PM
RoamingScott
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Latest Nikon Rumors - March 25th!


I see no need for a new sensor in a Z850. If you want to control cost you use the Z7 sensor, if you want to make a real splash you use the Z9 sensor. If you want to disappoint everyone you use the noisy, dog slow A7R4 sensor.

The Z850 needs to be around 45mp and Nikon has 2 fine options already.

If the camera is trying to be something else, like a high megapixel variant, then you’ll need the latest rebranded Sony sensor added to the portfolio.

1bwana1 wrote:
Yes I think probably this is true. But what I am hearing is that the Z8 has been held up for months by supply issues with its new sensor. The specs of this new sensor are very closely guarded so no info about it yet. I expect leaks to start shortly.





Feb 26, 2023 at 11:32 PM
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