Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
  

Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount

  
 
rscheffler
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


Cosina, the company behind the modern Voigtlander line of lenses, posted the following video about their first RF mount lens release, the NOKTON 50mm f/1 Aspherical RF:

https://youtu.be/7TuzQsmrPeI



Screen grabs from the video below.

Electronic mount - TBC if this will mean support for Canon's manual focus aid. The first one below also reveals 45cm MFD. When the yellow vertical mark at the end of the lens nearest the table is rotated 180 degrees to the 'top' of the lens, when mounted and viewed from the photographers position behind the camera, indicates that the aperture ring has been de-clicked:






The reference at bottom left in the image below to GA is 'ground aspherical.'











Edited on Feb 23, 2023 at 10:09 AM · View previous versions



Feb 22, 2023 at 11:54 PM
EB-1
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


The aperture should be controlled by the body, no? That doesn't require the AF system.

EBH



Feb 23, 2023 at 01:28 AM
matejphoto
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


EB-1 wrote:
The aperture should be controlled by the body, no? That doesn't require the AF system.

EBH


That is how the Zeiss ZE lenses for Canon DSLR used to work. So this will be a more manual experience. But the lens is therefore fully manual and doesn't need electronics to function.



Feb 23, 2023 at 01:34 AM
EB-1
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


Oh, what a shame. They have all those RF contacts and have missed the opportunity to use them. Or is that the agreement with Canon?

EBH

Edited on Feb 23, 2023 at 01:50 AM · View previous versions



Feb 23, 2023 at 01:48 AM
rscheffler
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


Doesn't really matter that much on mirrorless since stopped down focus isn't affected by increasingly darker viewfinder experience like SLRs. And this lens will probably be mostly used at or near wide open.


Feb 23, 2023 at 01:50 AM
koenkooi
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


EB-1 wrote:
Oh, what a shame. They have all those RF contacts and have missed the opportunity to use them. Or is that the agreement with Canon?

I still hope this lens will transmit the manually set aperture and focus distance to the body.



Feb 23, 2023 at 03:13 AM
Z250SA
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


Well... If I would pay what it takes to get a f/1 lens, how much would I usually stop it down?

I was seriously looking at adapting the VM f/1 to RF last autumn, but just managed to stop myself. Lucky me, for once.



Feb 23, 2023 at 04:04 AM
Jman13
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


It should. I used several Voigtlander lenses on E mount when I shot Sony, and they all worked like this.


koenkooi wrote:
I still hope this lens will transmit the manually set aperture and focus distance to the body.




Feb 23, 2023 at 06:50 AM
johnctharp
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


Z250SA wrote:
Well... If I would pay what it takes to get a f/1 lens, how much would I usually stop it down?


Really depends - primarily on the 'character' of the lens when stopping down, but also a matter of convenience, right?

And assuming that the lens isn't apochromatic wide open, which I think is a good assumption at the moment, and that there is going to be vignetting wide open as well, one might stop down for a sharper, cleaner, more consistent image across the frame - perhaps more so than when shot at the same aperture as a slower lens. That manual, de-clicked aperture should also be pretty nice for video I'd think, for those willing to set up focus and aperture levers.



Feb 23, 2023 at 08:10 AM
jedibrain
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


There was some speculation it would not be branded Voightlander, but instead Cosina. I guess now we know.

Hopefully more lenses to come.

-Brian



Feb 23, 2023 at 08:55 AM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

Tom_W
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


In FM tradition, all I want is the box!

Seriously, an interesting lens really. I don't think it's my cup of tea, but I'm glad to see a new brand being brought under the Canon wing.



Feb 23, 2023 at 09:02 AM
rscheffler
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


For those unfamiliar with Voigtlander and curious about how this lens performs, it was originally released for Leica M mount a little over a year ago and was reviewed by Fred here. The review covers technical aspects such as sharpness at infinity, CA, LoCA, coma, flaring and also character/rendering at various subject distances. There are also comparisons against other fast Leica M mount 50s and the Sony 50/1.2 for mirrorless (possibly one of the technically best 50s currently available, similar to the Canon RF 50/1.2L).

Below is the introduction Fred posted in the review:

The new Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton is Cosina's fastest full frame lens to date and it is capable of very high contrast and resolution. That's quite an accomplishment considering it's a relatively compact 50mm f/1 lens. Cosina attributes this feat to the use of a double-sided aspherical element and a newly developed grinding aspherical (GA) front element.

It's a modern, well-corrected optical design with a promise of delivering high performance even wide open. Thanks to its floating element system, there is very low spherical aberration in the images it produces at close distance.

If Cosina's goal was to design the sharpest 50mm f/1 lens while keeping it as compact as possible, from what I've seen so far, it looks like they achieved this. However, there are compromises to every optical design. Due to the compact lens size and super fast aperture, field curvature and pronounced optical vignetting may cause unevenness in the rendering depending on subject distance.

And Fred's concluding remarks:

After shooting with the Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton for about a week, I came to the conclusion that itís one of the sharpest 50mm F/1 lenses ever produced. I put this lens through some demanding technical tests, and it's clear to me that Cosina prioritized resolution, contrast and size for this optical design.

Let's start with resolution: Many have been asking for an affordable and fast 50mm lens with a floating mechanism, capable of achieving high close up performance and the Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton delivered. As demonstrated in the side by side comparisons, it clearly outperforms the mighty Leica 50/0.95 Noctilux at close and long distance by a good margin, especially when positioning the subject away from the center area.

In regards to compactness: It's small and light for a 50mm F/1 lens measuring only 55mm in length and weighing 482 grams. Most importantly, it's not front heavy and balances well on the Leica M body, although it still blocks about 20% of the rangefinder's frameline.

But, every optical design has compromises and the Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton is no exception. It has pronounced outwards field curvature and high optical vignetting which is a combination that could cause unevenness in the background rendering depending on subject distance . Although all F/1 lenses tested here have similar character, it's something to keep in mind when composing your scenes with this lens.

The Voigtlander 50/1 Nokton is well corrected for distortion showing only minor pincushion. It also demonstrated great flare resistance when compared to other f/1 lenses, although, there is still noticeable ring flare whenever not blocking side lighting with the hood or your hand.

Ironically, although not a f/1 lens, the Voigtlander 50mm f/1.2 Nokton compared favorably against the Voigtlander 50mm f/1, sharing many of the same qualities while being smaller/lighter and producing a more pleasant and even rendering. This is due to less pronounced field curvature and lower optical vignetting. However, it is ~1/2 stop slower and not equipped with a floating mechanism which means lower performance at minimal focus distance. I consider it a great alternative for those who prioritize rendering and don't mind spherical aberration when shooting wide open at close distance.


Pros:
High resolution and contrast from wide open. It performed better than I expected for a F/1 lens.
Clean specular highlights inner structure thanks to the grinding aspherical process.
Better than average close up performance: The floating design delivers great resolution from MFD to infinity.
Compact (short) and light for a 50mm f/1 lens (482g, measured).
Great build quality with tight tolerance construction.
Well corrected for distortion (negligible pincushion).
Aperture mechanism with 12 straight blades provide defined 12-pointed sunstars.
Great lateral CA correction.

Cons:
High optical vignetting renders 'cats eye' bokeh balls towards the corners.
Pronounced outwards field curvature may cause unevenness in the rendering when shooting wide open.
Noticeable purple fringing and axial CA in areas of high contrast when shooting wide open.
One of the most expensive Cosina lenses at $1,800 (Although way less than the 13K Leica).


Please note that with the RF version Cosina may have slightly tweaked aspects of the lens, whether optically or otherwise, that might affect certain performance aspects. I would expect the RF version is very close in this respect to the recently released version for Nikon mirrorless, but have not yet seen (or looked for) any comparison reviews against the M-mount version.



Feb 23, 2023 at 09:39 AM
Deathchant
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


matejphoto wrote:
That is how the Zeiss ZE lenses for Canon DSLR used to work. So this will be a more manual experience. But the lens is therefore fully manual and doesn't need electronics to function.

Is it either physical OR electronical, or is both possible? I hope the aperture can also be handled via the camera. In Japan it is 23:55 now, so the day is almost over. I cannot find it yet, but is there any news on pricing?



Feb 23, 2023 at 09:55 AM
rscheffler
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


Tom_W wrote:
In FM tradition, all I want is the box!

Seriously, an interesting lens really. I don't think it's my cup of tea, but I'm glad to see a new brand being brought under the Canon wing.


Definitely. This kind of lens can only really be considered as a niche product and for sure Cosina will release some of their other Voigtlander lenses in RF mount.

To reiterate what I posted over in the Leica/Alt forum about possibly why Cosina chose this as their first RF release:

I think Cosina wanted to make a more impactful impression (with an ultra-fast 50) as the first authorized third party for Canon RF (assuming this is the case) to release an electronically coupled lens, perhaps in part because of the performance level Canon has already established with their fast RF primes. It showcases Cosina ability to create lenses on a similarly high level but that it's different enough from Canon's 50/1.2L to be interesting (faster, smaller, less expensive, but still premium). I don't believe releasing their f/2 APOs would have had the same impact as the f/1 prime (considering how speed obsessed many are). If Canon users pay attention to Cosina's full CP+ announcement, they'll also take note of the 35/0.9 (APS-C) and 55/1.2.

I get the impression the 50/1 is a big deal for Cosina. It's a halo lens. It outperforms Leica's Noctilux (and is close to Sony's FE 50/1.2, Nikon's Z 50/1.2 or Canon's RF 50/1.2). It's an opportunity for Cosina to emerge from the shadows of making everyone else's lenses or 'cheap' entry level products (from decades ago). They are the manufacturer behind modern Voigtlander and are capable of manufacturing to the highest level (i.e. Zeiss's Otus line).

Cosina's video for the Fuji mount 35/2 APO shows how they're looking to differentiate themselves from OEM lens choices as an artisanal alternative. Obviously with manual focus only lenses they're not going to market themselves as a mainstream option. Rather, that their lenses are complementary to the OEMs. This might be a reason they were able to gain Canon's approval.



Feb 23, 2023 at 09:57 AM
rscheffler
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


EB-1 wrote:
The aperture should be controlled by the body, no? That doesn't require the AF system.

EBH

matejphoto wrote:
That is how the Zeiss ZE lenses for Canon DSLR used to work. So this will be a more manual experience. But the lens is therefore fully manual and doesn't need electronics to function.

Deathchant wrote:
Is it either physical OR electronical, or is both possible? I hope the aperture can also be handled via the camera. In Japan it is 23:55 now, so the day is almost over. I cannot find it yet, but is there any news on pricing?


It's very probable that it's a fully mechanical aperture and has to be set manually on the lens. All Voigtlander mirrorless lenses to date have worked this way. The electronic contacts facilitate EXIF, proper automatic IBIS setting and should enable Canon's manual focus assist feature (only available for lenses with electronic communication with the camera). This lens was recently announced/released for Nikon Z mount and based on the Cameraquest site (a Voigtlander distributor in the USA) here, sells for $1795. The expectation is the Canon RF version will be very similarly priced.



Feb 23, 2023 at 10:05 AM
Deathchant
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


rscheffler wrote:
Please note that with the RF version Cosina may have slightly tweaked aspects of the lens, whether optically or otherwise, that might affect certain performance aspects. I would expect the RF version is very close in this respect to the recently released version for Nikon mirrorless, but have not yet seen (or looked for) any comparison reviews against the M-mount version.

How about focus shift? Does the IQ degrade when focusing at f/1 and then stopping down to f/4?
The reason I ask is because I found out that my current Zeiss lenses all have (minor) focus shift. Both my 6D and R6 close down the aperture to around f/5.6 or f/8 during liveview when a lot of light hits the sensor.

Since Canon camera's do this, I think focus shift is undesireable. When I focus at f/2, and then decide to stop down to f/8, it should be sharp wherever I've focused on.

rscheffler wrote:
It's very probable that it's a fully mechanical aperture and has to be set manually on the lens. All Voigtlander mirrorless lenses to date have worked this way. The electronic contacts facilitate EXIF, proper automatic IBIS setting and should enable Canon's manual focus assist feature (only available for lenses with electronic communication with the camera). This lens was recently announced/released for Nikon Z mount and based on the Cameraquest site (a Voigtlander distributor in the USA) here, sells for $1795. The expectation is the Canon RF version will be very similarly priced.

I've never owned a Voigtlander in my DSLR-days before. I own the Zeiss 50MP, 100MP and 135 APO (with canon EF->RF adapter) and these lenses work perfectly on my R6 (beside the lensmaker-EXIF not being correctly set by Canon on mirrorless) electronically.

Since all the contacts seem to be there on the new 50/1 NOKTON, I assumed that it also works electronically...But I don't speak Japanese so I couldn't find out yet.
Ah 1795 dollars....that will be around that same price in the EU then. I don't really need f/1. f/1.4 is also fine by me, but this price is a nope for me. I will wait for the Apo Lanthars then.



Feb 23, 2023 at 10:16 AM
rscheffler
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


Yes, I'm also more interested in the Apo Lanthars.

Focus shift: according to Fred's M-mount version review post about it here, it's minimal but still there and could affect you if you're pixel peeping. This would be a benefit of a manually aperture system and focusing at the shooting aperture, already taking into account for focus shift, which Canon's RF system doesn't appear to do because it mostly focuses wide open, unless it's extremly bright, as you noted. It's possible Canon RF lenses carry lens profiles that tell the camera to adjust focus due to focus shift depending on the shooting aperture and focusing distance, but I have not read anything that has confirmed this.

As I stated earlier, I don't really see a disadvantage of focusing at the shooting aperture on mirrorless, at least at wider apertures where it's easiest to discern accurate placement of the plane of focus. If shooting stopped down at f/8, my mirrorless habit when adapting manual lenses has been to focus at ~f/2.8 or f/4 where you can still clearly see the best point of focus, then stop down. But with Canon's manual focus assist feature (by that I mean the converging triangles, not focus peaking), it should be able to tell you the highest point of contrast/best focus, even when stopped down a lot (but would be worth testing to be sure).

The Zeiss ZE lenses had electronic aperture control probably in part because those designs accommodated those requirements. With the 50/1 and many other Voigtlander mirrorless lenses (at least for Sony), Cosina has shared the optics with the manual-only Leica M mount. Adding an electronic aperture system likely increases complexity and possibly changes the optical design too much. Instead they're probably looking to offer these lenses across various systems as economically as possible with the least variation from a production standpoint. I think it's a reasonable tradeoff and am glad there's at least the electronic contacts which will facilitate automatic IBIS settings and provide EXIF.



Feb 23, 2023 at 10:26 AM
Deathchant
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


rscheffler wrote:
Yes, I'm also more interested in the Apo Lanthars.

Focus shift: according to Fred's M-mount version review post about it here, it's minimal but still there and could affect you if you're pixel peeping. This would be a benefit of a manually aperture system and focusing at the shooting aperture, already taking into account for focus shift, which Canon's RF system doesn't appear to do because it mostly focuses wide open, unless it's extremly bright, as you noted. It's possible Canon RF lenses carry lens profiles that tell the camera to adjust focus due to focus shift depending on the
...Show more
Hmmm I knew camera's can correct for optical distortions and cropping in in order to correct focus breathing, but I didn't know a "focus shift correction" was embedded in camera/lens profiles as well. I learn every day :P

Well, actually, constantly having unsharpness at the focus point while being 100% sure that I focused with those focus assist (the triangles) is what made me find out about that erratic aperture behavior during liveview when in bright conditions. So I've "tested" it enough

Thanks for explaining that Voigtlander vs Zeiss thingy about implementing electronic aperture control, I totally forgot about that. Voigtlanders more affordable prices must come from something It is indeed a reasonable tradeoff, I fully agree.



Feb 23, 2023 at 10:42 AM
rscheffler
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount



Deathchant wrote:
Hmmm I knew camera's can correct for optical distortions and cropping in in order to correct focus breathing, but I didn't know a "focus shift correction" was embedded in camera/lens profiles as well. I learn every day :P

Well, actually, constantly having unsharpness at the focus point while being 100% sure that I focused with those focus assist (the triangles) is what made me find out about that erratic aperture behavior during liveview when in bright conditions. So I've "tested" it enough

Thanks for explaining that Voigtlander vs Zeiss thingy about implementing electronic aperture control, I totally forgot about that.
...Show more

I'm not 100% sure that Canon's RF lenses carry lens profiles that adjust for focus shift. But think it's a logical possibility because the system appears to prioritize wide open focus whenever possible.

Yes, I could see where with electronically controlled aperture lenses, such as the Zeiss ZE and Canon's TS-E's wide open focus with the focus assist triangles would be incorrect if using a different taking aperture. I thought to try it yet, but does the focus assist triangle feature also work when using depth of field preview? If not, then magnified focus assist is perhaps the only option, assuming it and depth of field preview can be used together (another thing I haven't yet tried with my R6II, but should).



Feb 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM
Deathchant
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 announced for Canon RF mount


rscheffler wrote:
I'm not 100% sure that Canon's RF lenses carry lens profiles that adjust for focus shift. But think it's a logical possibility because the system appears to prioritize wide open focus whenever possible.

Yes, I could see where with electronically controlled aperture lenses, such as the Zeiss ZE and Canon's TS-E's wide open focus with the focus assist triangles would be incorrect if using a different taking aperture. I thought to try it yet, but does the focus assist triangle feature also work when using depth of field preview? If not, then magnified focus assist is perhaps the only option, assuming
...Show more

I guess I have more "in focus issues" in the case when I think I am nailing focus at f/2, and then the picture ends up unsharp because when focusing, the camera stopped down the aperture letting me think it was f/2 while in practice it was f/8 or so.

But my workaround is to press the DoF button everytime I manually focus. It is a bit of a hassle because I have to hold down that DoF button whilst magnified focusing (and yes, that works). At least I know that it is tack sharp at the point where I focus.



Feb 23, 2023 at 11:00 AM
1
       2       3       end






FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.