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Archive 2023 · UV 400.

princeharbinger
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · UV 400.

Hi, I need help understanding this. From what I read UV 400 is beneficial for High altitudes of 8,000 feet above sea level. However, it may cause an unwanted color cast when used outside this application. How far below 8,000 feet before the filter would be unnecessary to use?

Feb 21, 2023 at 06:25 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · UV 400.

I don't use them in the modern digital era since most sensors are UV/IR filtered. Is there some issue with the usual color temperature corrections showing problems? Which cameras are you using?

EBH

Feb 21, 2023 at 07:01 PM

princeharbinger
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · UV 400.

Mainly using them for protection against
sand, grit, or other particles in the air. I'm aware that my camera has a UV filter stacked on the sensor. I know it doesn't have UV 400 filter though, and was curious of the benefits of using it for high altitudes. From what I read it also benefits snowy scenery as well.
EB-1 wrote:
I don't use them in the modern digital era since most sensors are UV/IR filtered. Is there some issue with the usual color temperature corrections showing problems? Which cameras are you using?

EBH

Feb 21, 2023 at 07:52 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · UV 400.

There are umpteen threads about clear/UV filters, so be prepared for an onslaught.

I use the Heliopans around the ocean for blowing sand and saltwater spray, and also where there is volcanic activity or geysers. Otherwise I don't use plain filters. Of course ND and polarizers are a separate issue.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/232474-REG/Heliopan_707711_77mm_UV_Haze_SH_PMC.html

EBH

Feb 21, 2023 at 08:37 PM

Todd Warnke
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · UV 400.

I live at 6300' and often shoot at 9,000'+, and often in the snow. Many years ago I tried a UV400 filter on a 14,000' climb (for protection). If anything, it messed my images up. I think any WB issues due to altitude are non-existent on most modern cameras, and since I shoot in RAW, adjustments are easy anyway. After that, the only time I ever use a filter "for protection" is when I'm in/near salt water.

Feb 21, 2023 at 10:01 PM

sjms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · UV 400.

since i live and go to environments where there variations in weather and conditions i pretty much my protect my front end optics. if one is to use said protection i can only advise you get quality multicoated optics whether it be standard UV or clear by known manufacturers. pretty much everything i have shot since 1976 has had a filter on it. the highest altitude i have shot at has been 14410ft on multiple occasions back in the late '70s of course using film (chromes). the most aggressive weather was in the middle east in 2003 for 30 days. these days the filters still used due to habit and travel/work i still do.

and they haven't hurt a thing.

Watchung Lake Winter "fun"

NIKON Z 6 NIKKOR Z 24-70mm f/4 S lens 36mm f/8.0 1/640s 100 ISO 0.0 EV

Ft. Monmouth

NIKON Z 9 NIKKOR Z 14-30mm f/4 S lens 16mm f/8.0 1/200s 220 ISO 0.0 EV

Tokyo Tower reflection (note the horizontal lines in the glass)

NIKON Z 9 NIKKOR Z 24-120mm f/4 S lens 60mm f/5.6 1/100s 25600 ISO 0.0 EV

Feb 22, 2023 at 06:06 AM

princeharbinger
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · UV 400.

Interesting what was the filter brand?

Todd Warnke wrote:
I live at 6300' and often shoot at 9,000'+, and often in the snow. Many years ago I tried a UV400 filter on a 14,000' climb (for protection). If anything, it messed my images up. I think any WB issues due to altitude are non-existent on most modern cameras, and since I shoot in RAW, adjustments are easy anyway. After that, the only time I ever use a filter "for protection" is when I'm in/near salt water.

Feb 22, 2023 at 08:15 AM

princeharbinger
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · UV 400.

Not sure who makes the best filters. If I had to take a guess I'd say it's a toss up between Firecrest and Breakthrough Photography. Did you experience any altitude sickness? I agree I haven't noticed any image degradation testing with and without a UV filter. Nice series of photos. What are they doing on the first photo? I'm guessing it is some sort of training drill?

sjms wrote:
since i live and go to environments where there variations in weather and conditions i pretty much my protect my front end optics. if one is to use said protection i can only advise you get quality multicoated optics whether it be standard UV or clear by known manufacturers. pretty much everything i have shot since 1976 has had a filter on it. the highest altitude i have shot at has been 14410ft on multiple occasions back in the late '70s of course using film (chromes). the most aggressive weather was in the middle east in 2003 for 30 days....Show more →

Feb 22, 2023 at 08:24 AM

sjms
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · UV 400.

most of mine are Breakthrough others Marumi

that image is of a group towns rescue squads in our fair state being update trained and recertified for the winter rescue 2 years back.

for 3 seasons from 1976 to 79 i was a guide and lived on the mountain for the summer months.

i did get a touch of the altitude "flu" on Mt. Whitney a few years later after being well out of shape (life started getting in the way) going from sailing off of Ventura to being at 10K the next day. oh, the duh factor!

Feb 22, 2023 at 08:32 AM

tsdevine
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · UV 400.

Both Zeiss UV and Kenko ZX L41 UV filters have a cutoff at 410nm. I use them on my Voigtlander lenses as they tend to produce magenta shading in the edges and corners when exposed to ambient UV light. I think all camera brands filter in the 400nm to 420nm range (where they start filtering depends on the brand). So if you're using a Sony, Canon, Nikon camera....you're going to get filtering on the sensor stack.

This is a good read to understand what wavelength the different brands start filtering.

https://petapixel.com/2020/06/04/why-uv-filters-are-basically-useless-on-modern-cameras/

But my specific Voigtlander issue is not solved by that filtering, so I use Zeiss UV or Kenko L410 UV filters on them. It makes a huge difference.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1683319/4#15549041

Feb 22, 2023 at 09:25 AM

princeharbinger
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · UV 400.

Sounds like you've lived a good life. I'm guessing you were up north. The only time I ever saw moutains in New Jersey is when I went to Sussex County.

sjms wrote:
most of mine are Breakthrough others Marumi

that image is of a group towns rescue squads in our fair state being update trained and recertified for the winter rescue 2 years back.

for 3 seasons from 1976 to 79 i was a guide and lived on the mountain for the summer months.

i did get a touch of the altitude "flu" on Mt. Whitney a few years later after being well out of shape (life started getting in the way) going from sailing off of Ventura to being at 10K the next day. oh, the duh factor!

Feb 23, 2023 at 07:24 AM

princeharbinger
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · UV 400.

I'm not familiar with "magenta shading". What exactly is that? Sounds like some sort of fringing. Does any of the APO lenses suffer with this issue or the CV 21mm F/1.4? How about the Loxia 21mm? Thanks for the link that was a interesting read. I'm guessing it would be pointless to bother with the Breakthrough Photography filter since the cutoff is 400. It wouldn't really benefit my camera. Although the coatings sound interesting and I like that it is made with a brass frame.

https://breakthrough.photography/products/x4-uv?variant=31478832721

tsdevine wrote:
Both Zeiss UV and Kenko ZX L41 UV filters have a cutoff at 410nm. I use them on my Voigtlander lenses as they tend to produce magenta shading in the edges and corners when exposed to ambient UV light. I think all camera brands filter in the 400nm to 420nm range (where they start filtering depends on the brand). So if you're using a Sony, Canon, Nikon camera....you're going to get filtering on the sensor stack.

This is a good read to understand what wavelength the different brands start filtering.

https://petapixel.com/2020/06/04/why-uv-filters-are-basically-useless-on-modern-cameras/

But my specific Voigtlander issue is not solved by that filtering, so...Show more →

Feb 23, 2023 at 07:32 AM

tsdevine
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · UV 400.

The 35/50 APOs are affected. Not sure about the 65/110, I stuck a filter on them as well without fully testing. Maybe if I get a chance I'll try testing them as well.

All I can say is that if there is a strong presence of UV < 410nm, you may see magenta towards the edges and corners (when there is strong ambient UV.) You can't easily deal with it via corner fix, etc as the strength depends on the strength of ambient UV in the shooting situation. It's not fringing in the conventional sense it is normally referenced. There is a strong theory of what causes it, but I'd rather not get into that. Cosina was made aware of it, but never responded...or at least not that I'm aware of. It has to be filtered out before entering the lens, as it's not a sensor/sensor stack issue.

It's pretty easy to test.....the strongest you'll see this is during mid day on a day where there is a high UV forecast. Depending on the camera profile you use, it also may be less noticeable. Many people don't care, can't fault them for that. But it bothers me.

I think I see it in this person's 21/1.4 shots, but it's more subdued than what I'd expect when shooting the 35/50 APOs. I hesitate to say it's affected without personally testing it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136434352@N03/albums/72157712665282923

I've noticed this on the Tamron 35/2.8. Haven't noticed it on my Loxia 21 but haven't extensively tested it.

Edit: Looking back at my old posts in that thread, I said I saw it in my CV 65 as well...but never posted samples. I don't think I kept those test shots, but I will say in looking at shots historically, it doesn't look as strong as with the CV 35/50.

princeharbinger wrote:
I'm not familiar with "magenta shading". What exactly is that? Sounds like some sort of fringing. Does any of the APO lenses suffer with this issue or the CV 21mm F/1.4? How about the Loxia 21mm? Thanks for the link that was a interesting read. I'm guessing it would be pointless to bother with the Breakthrough Photography filter since the cutoff is 400. It wouldn't really benefit my camera. Although the coatings sound interesting and I like that it is made with a brass frame.

https://breakthrough.photography/products/x4-uv?variant=31478832721

Edited on Feb 23, 2023 at 09:52 AM · View previous versions

Feb 23, 2023 at 09:01 AM

sjms
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · UV 400.

princeharbinger wrote:
Sounds like you've lived a good life. I'm guessing you were up north. The only time I ever saw moutains in New Jersey is when I went to Sussex County.

I’m not done yet. And believe me it hasn’t been all fun and games either. 🤪

Feb 23, 2023 at 09:11 AM

tsdevine
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · UV 400.

Forgot to answer one of your questions, yes Breakthrough Photography filters won't have any impact on this. There are very few high quality filters that cutoff at 410nm. The 2 I mentioned are the best I've found. They may not have brass rings, but they have good multicoating.

princeharbinger wrote:
I'm not familiar with "magenta shading". What exactly is that? Sounds like some sort of fringing. Does any of the APO lenses suffer with this issue or the CV 21mm F/1.4? How about the Loxia 21mm? Thanks for the link that was a interesting read. I'm guessing it would be pointless to bother with the Breakthrough Photography filter since the cutoff is 400. It wouldn't really benefit my camera. Although the coatings sound interesting and I like that it is made with a brass frame.

https://breakthrough.photography/products/x4-uv?variant=31478832721

Feb 23, 2023 at 09:21 AM

jeffbuzz
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · UV 400.

UV filters serve no optical purpose on digital cameras. If you want physical protection, using clear or UV does not matter. Just use a good quality one that doesn't block visible light. lensrentals and lenstips both have excellent tests comparing visible light transmission. I spend plenty of time above 8000 ft and can attest there's no difference with UV vs clear vs naked (lens).

Feb 23, 2023 at 01:34 PM

tsdevine
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · UV 400.

Agree...except unfortunately for certain lenses, which are a small exception. The sensor stack blocks UV innately and I posted a link above that shows the wavelengths mfgs implement filtering.

jeffbuzz wrote:
UV filters serve no optical purpose on digital cameras. If you want physical protection, using clear or UV does not matter. Just use a good quality one that doesn't block visible light. lensrentals and lenstips both have excellent tests comparing visible light transmission. I spend plenty of time above 8000 ft and can attest there's no difference with UV vs clear vs naked (lens).

Feb 23, 2023 at 03:34 PM

princeharbinger
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · UV 400.

I wonder if this is what some reviewers call corner CA? Because if there is such thing as corner CA than how would you differaite the two? I guess I could test indoors for that to tell them apart. However the reviewers that I'm talking about do most of their test outdoors. That would be a double whammy if a lens suffered from both issues. I plan to pick up some of them. I'll be interesting to read your findings when you have a chance to test them out. I heard the T* coating is prone to scratching when cleaning. I'd feel more comfortable scratching a filter than the lens element if that's the case. Granted I know how to clean a lens element properly. By the sounds of what I read you have to be a bit more careful with Zeiss lenses. As frequent cleaning with a microfiber cloth will leave fatigue marks. I wonder if the Zeiss filter repels water droplets and dust.

I know I'm not going color blind but I have to be honest I had a tough time seeing it in that person's examples. I do see a very faint magenta on the corners of the first shot with the leaves. Not sure if you are seeing it better on your computer. I viewed it on my phone. When you take out the CV for the test bring along the Loxia too. Do you see it with the Pentax 28mm as well? What about the Sigma 28mm and the 40mm?

tsdevine wrote:
The 35/50 APOs are affected. Not sure about the 65/110, I stuck a filter on them as well without fully testing. Maybe if I get a chance I'll try testing them as well.

All I can say is that if there is a strong presence of UV < 410nm, you may see magenta towards the edges and corners (when there is strong ambient UV.) You can't easily deal with it via corner fix, etc as the strength depends on the strength of ambient UV in the shooting situation. It's not fringing in the conventional sense it is normally referenced. There is...Show more →

Feb 24, 2023 at 09:54 AM

princeharbinger
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · UV 400.

I didn't mean it in that way. I guess I should have said thus far.😋

sjms wrote:
I’m not done yet. And believe me it hasn’t been all fun and games either. 🤪

Feb 24, 2023 at 09:58 AM

tsdevine
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · UV 400.

CA involves the different wavelengths of light not falling on the same point of the sensor. I think you need something with texture to see that, and it shows on the edge of that texture. This is different.

Next time I get a nice blue sky day I'll shoot the CV 65 and Loxia 21. Want me to test any others.

I haven't had issues with cleaning Zeiss lenses or filters. just use care.

I'm not sure, I agree it's faint, so don't take my comment with any weight. I'd really need to test it first hand to feel comfortable making a strong comment about it.

No..don't have this issue with the Pentax. Will test the Sigmas too....although I think I did that when I got them and I don't remember seeing it. I've sort of decided to put filters on my lenses....after generally not having any filters on my lenses.

princeharbinger wrote:
I wonder if this is what some reviewers call corner CA? Because if there is such thing as corner CA than how would you differaite the two? I guess I could test indoors for that to tell them apart. However the reviewers that I'm talking about do most of their test outdoors. That would be a double whammy if a lens suffered from both issues. I plan to pick up some of them. I'll be interesting to read your findings when you have a chance to test them out. I heard the T* coating is prone to scratching when cleaning....Show more →

Feb 24, 2023 at 09:42 PM

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