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Archive 2023 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems

  
 
Broken-1DX
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


I apologize in advance for this long post, I'm sharing everything I've done in attempt to solve this problem to save your time.

TL/DR (read rest if you want more info): New second hand D4 not locking focus on moving subjects even in AF-C/Focus Priority with lens properly calibrated. Not completely unfocused, just not sharp enough to be usable.

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I recently replaced my old tertiary body with a second hand D4 (old one was also a D4 which finally gave out). I photograph a lot of sports teams at various universities, part of which involves some in-event editorial work. (Not the the best scenario for perfect AF...)

Plain and simple, the AF isn't performing up to par as the old D4 did. I calibrate all of my glass with Reikan FoCal - this was a 70-200 2.8 FL which I normally used on the old D4.
Having the AF fine tuned to the proper value, the new one locks focus beautifully when shooting subjects that are standing still.

However, compared to the old D4 this new one does not lock focus on moving subjects well enough to produce images sharp enough to be "up to standard". They are not grossly out of focus, just not focused enough to be usable. This was made apparent when I was shooting long-jumpers at an indoor track and field event this past weekend. (Running towards the camera.)

I set this new D4 to the following (exact to what the previous D4 was set):

- AF-C
- Single-point or 9-point grid
- AF-C Priority: FOCUS
- Focus tracking: 2
- Focus point wrap ON
- AF11 (don't usually use 51 points)

What confuses me is why it simply doesn't lock focus on the subject. When I shot in FOCUS PRIORITY on the old D4, every shot was insanely sharp especially when paired with that same AFS 70-200 FL.

Can this be solved with a firmware update, or is it a lemon? I greatly appreciate all suggestions!



Feb 21, 2023 at 03:36 PM
henry albert
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


Maybe it needs tweaking at a service center. I had a 1D2n that just sorted drifted to the soft side over time. I sent it in to have it adjusted, and it came back perfect.


Feb 21, 2023 at 03:51 PM
sjms
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


So you are asking if it can be fixed by firmware. Have you looked into what you have onboard vs what is the last available on the Nikon site?
The most current firmware for the D4 is A:1.11 B 1.11 dated 2018/02/27. In addition the most recent distortion control data is 2.018 dated 2020/01/16



Feb 21, 2023 at 05:06 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


I would suggest not using Focus Priority. What that does is prevent the camera from releasing the shutter until the camera thinks the subject is in focus, so it's really easy to miss a key moment and it often slows your maximum FPS. In my opinion anyway, it's better to have an image slightly out of focus than no image at all just because the camera didn't report "in focus" at exactly the right moment. The mode itself has nothing to do with the camera's ability to focus, it just controls the conditions that allow the shutter to release.

Focus + Release won't take the first shot until the camera reports the subject is "in focus", and then after that it will keep firing at your selected FPS for all subsequent frames regardless of focus conditions for as long as you are holding down the shutter button.

Release priority is what most people use and it will simply take a photo regardless of camera-reported focus conditions at whatever FPS you have selected. I would suggest you use this mode for sports/action but ultimately it's up to you of course. This way, you will never miss a shot because the camera didn't even fire. It also just feels smoother and in my opinion makes it easier to track action with a perfectly consistent FPS and VF blackout.

With Reikan FoCal, you are calibrating the camera body, not the lens, and the various disadvantages the come along with using AFFT (especially with a zoom lens) very well could be contributing to your frustrations. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the culprit.

If the camera achieves acceptable focus on stationary subjects, but not moving ones, then it's harder to figure out what's going on as there are so many other variables. That points to a settings or technique issue, but if you are getting good results with your other D4, then then it's probably not a technique issue either. The first thing I would do is get rid of the AFFT values, set the camera to "Release" priority and see if your results improve. I see more people create problems for themselves with AFFT than I do fix them, but as always YMMV.

Another thing I would do is try to set up a test as controlled as possible to check AF tracking. This is very difficult to do objectively, but maybe have a friend run towards you while you take a series of images with each of your D4's from a tripod. Do this a few times with each camera body to increase the likelihood of reliable results, and compare the image sets. If one camera's images are consistently sharp and the other is consistently missing focus on every shot, all else equal, then there is a high probability that particular camera body has an issue.

Have you tried it with any other lenses? Does every other lens behave the same way on the one D4 while having no issues on the other D4?

There won't be a FW update for the D4 that addresses a one-off AF issue if that's what it turns out to be.

If you do want to send it to Nikon to check, they will require both the lens and the camera body to do a proper calibration. To my knowledge they are only going to test it on a stationary AF target though, which doesn't seem to be a problem for you.



Feb 21, 2023 at 06:20 PM
sk66
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


For long jumpers coming towards the camera the best focus mode is probably 3D, as that's the only one that tracks focus distance (the third direction).


Feb 22, 2023 at 09:40 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


sk66 wrote:
For long jumpers coming towards the camera the best focus mode is probably 3D, as that's the only one that tracks focus distance (the third direction).


Any mode used with AF-C will make corrections for distance, that is the whole reason behind it If there are no distance changes, the AF system doesn't really have to do any work beyond the initial acquisition (which also requires a distance calculation).

3D tracking looks at color and shape data under the focus point used for the initial acquisition and attempts to track that unique pattern throughout the frame, it does not refer to it's ability to track distance changes.



Feb 22, 2023 at 12:27 PM
sk66
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


CanadaMark wrote:
Any mode used with AF-C will make corrections for distance, that is the whole reason behind it If there are no distance changes, the AF system doesn't really have to do any work beyond the initial acquisition (which also requires a distance calculation).

3D tracking looks at color and shape data under the focus point used for the initial acquisition and attempts to track that unique pattern throughout the frame, it does not refer to it's ability to track distance changes.


3D tracking in the DSLR's does also use color information from the matrix meter where the other modes do not. But the other focus modes track position (lateral/vertical; the first two "D"irections) using predictive tracking; the focus distance is strictly reactive. In the 3D mode focus distance is also predictive (which can be as problematic as it can be beneficial). The main reason it uses the color matrix meter is because that has the ability to use distance information from D/G type lenses... the phase detection AF sensor only *reacts* to phase (position) offset.

The Nikon mirrorless Z9 uses color/pattern information in most modes (subject/face/eye recognition), but it still has a separate 3D mode for the same reason/meaning.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/photography-glossary/index.page



Feb 22, 2023 at 07:03 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


sk66 wrote:
3D tracking in the DSLR's does also use color information from the matrix meter where the other modes do not. But the other focus modes track position (lateral/vertical; the first two "D"irections) using predictive tracking; the focus distance is strictly reactive. In the 3D mode focus distance is also predictive (which can be as problematic as it can be beneficial). The main reason it uses the color matrix meter is because that has the ability to use distance information from D/G type lenses... the phase detection AF sensor only *reacts* to phase (position) offset.

The Nikon mirrorless Z9 uses color/pattern information
...Show more

That's not what you said You said that 3D was the only focus mode that could track distance, which is what I replied to. All AF-C modes are able to adjust for changes in distance. The regular AF-C modes are also predictive, which is also described in your link.

3D tracking is primarily intended for random/erratic movement, and the 3 "D's" are vertical, horizontal, and diagonal - also as per your link.

3D tracking of course works even better on a camera like the Z9 but the OP has a D4 which is what we are talking about.



Feb 23, 2023 at 12:11 PM
sk66
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


CanadaMark wrote:
That's not what you said You said that 3D was the only focus mode that could track distance, which is what I replied to. All AF-C modes are able to adjust for changes in distance. The regular AF-C modes are also predictive, which is also described in your link.

3D tracking is primarily intended for random/erratic movement, and the 3 "D's" are vertical, horizontal, and diagonal - also as per your link.

3D tracking of course works even better on a camera like the Z9 but the OP has a D4 which is what we are talking about.


No, 3D is horizontal, vertical (and the diagonal combination), plus distance. E.g. a 2D image vs a 3D reality... I linked Nikon's own definition/explanation of the difference.



Feb 24, 2023 at 12:48 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


sk66 wrote:
No, 3D is horizontal, vertical (and the diagonal combination), plus distance. E.g. a 2D image vs a 3D reality... I linked Nikon's own definition/explanation of the difference.


There is nothing special at all about Nikon's 3D tracking in terms of it's ability to adjust for distance changes compared to Nikon's other focus modes - they all work in exactly the same way when it comes to making distance adjustments via PDAF. All AF-C modes are also inherently predictive with or without 3D tracking.

All 3D tracking is doing is gathering additional information from the subject (like shape and color data from the meter) in an attempt to create a unique profile to track the subject across the frame (and when it re-enters the frame), particularly subjects with random or erratic movement. Originally it worked best with faces and now it works with pretty much anything as higher resolution meters give the camera better subject discretion. The higher resolution the meter, the better it works, which is why it got a performance bump in the D5/D850/D500 DSLRs and of course a massive upgrade with mirrorless.

I'm not sure what you may have read that said 3D tracking is the only AF mode that can deal with distance changes, but that has never been how 3D tracking works within the context of Nikon AF.

The word "distance" isn't used anywhere with regards to 3D AF tracking - not in Nikon's manuals, not in their supplementary technical documentation, and not in the glossary link you provided. I think where you're being confused is that the camera's Matrix metering mode takes into account subject distance information for exposure calculations, but that distance information still comes from the PDAF system & lens, not the meter itself - it is nothing new and that same information is used in the other AF modes. The distance information taken from the lens/PDAF system is taken into account in Matrix metering for a more accurate exposure, it is not new information that is added to improve autofocus when using 3D AF.

Here is Nikon's explanation of 3D AF Tracking from the link you provided - note there is no mention about a distance calculation, because the camera is doing that anyway regardless of AF mode:

An invaluable feature for sports, action and wildlife photography, 3D focus tracking, available in select Nikon D-SLRs, automatically shifts the focus point to follow the movement of the subject. With the shutter release pressed halfway, you'll see in the viewfinder the lens continuously maintain focus as the subject moves.

However, maintaining focus doesn't guarantee a sharp image, as there is a short time lag between the release of the shutter and the capture of the picture. To solve this problem, the focus tracking system is a predictive system that uses special algorithms to forecast the position of the subject at the moment the image is captured. The prediction is based on a measurement of the subject's movement and speed.

Simple predictive tracking is very effective for pictures of a subject moving at constant speed toward the camera, but to provide maximum focusing performance for a subject that abruptly changes direction at high speed, or a subject with low contrast, moving randomly, the AF system must accumulate subject location data using multiple focus areas. The AF modules built into selected Nikon D-SLRs have as many as 51 focus areas that can detect vertical, horizontal and diagonal movement of the subject.

To realize high-precision AF for high-speed continuous shooting of a fast-moving subject, the processing speed of the AF cycle is vital. To provide that speed, a Nikon proprietary technology called overlap servo prepares for the focus detection of the next shot while the lens-driving operation for the current shot is in process.



Feb 24, 2023 at 05:29 PM
sk66
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Frustrating D4 AF-C Problems


Where in the "vertical, horizontal, diagonal movement" of the PDAF system does it include distance?


Feb 26, 2023 at 11:34 PM





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