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Archive 2023 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?

  
 
billsamuels
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


I'm leaving in a few weeks for Europe and we're going to Prague, Paris, and ending in London. In Prague, I'm interested in the street scenes as it's pretty old world. There's also a lot of art so I may need a fast lens that can handle the lack of a flash. Then we take a train to Paris, so I'm not sure what I would use on a train and how fast the trains there go between Prague and Paris, but we have to change trains 3 times. Once we arrive in Paris, again street scenes, buildings, etc. Then we rent a car to go to a castle in the French countryside, and I love countrysides.

Then we take a plane to Glasgow and head to the Lakes NP for more scenery.

Last time I went to Europe, I took my Canon EF 24-105mm F/4 IS and the EF 70-200mm, which is actually the lens I used the most. The only problem with the 70-200 is that while it's very light weight for its size, it's an F/4 so sometimes it's very difficult to get a photo and other times, the photos can be blurred. I'm wondering if it's time to look at getting the same lens with either the F/2.8 OR should I get the version with the IS? Which is better?

Also, I was thinking about getting a real sharp inbetween lens, something like a Sigma Art 30, 35, or 40mm lens for walking around with. I have a Zeiss 25mm classic lens for Canon, but I hear that the Sigma are just as sharp?

Anyone care to comment on the new Zeiss lenses versus the new Sigma lenses; this for a Canon 5DS-R.
Thanks.
Bill



Feb 07, 2023 at 07:32 PM
melcat
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


billsamuels wrote:
There's also a lot of art so I may need a fast lens that can handle the lack of a flash.


If you mean in galleries/museums, just don’t. In 2023, when you can find images of major works online and have art books delivered to your door, it makes no sense. In the 1980s I was one of the annoying people taking photos in the galleries of Florence and London (for pictures I barely looked at later). In 2023 galleries in my own home town of Melbourne now attract foreign tourists and I know what it’s like to try to see an artwork in between people taking pictures and selfies of them with their phones.

I'm not sure what I would use on a train and how fast the trains there go between Prague and Paris

You probably won’t be taking photos at all. Depending on your ticket, on some legs the train could go up to 300km/h. The windows won’t open on the fast trains and probably not on the slower ones either. Maybe some of the trainsheds would be good subjects when you change trains.

Once we arrive in Paris, again street scenes, buildings, etc.

Weirdly, I’ve never made it to Paris, but I’d be choosing zooms in the range 16 to 70mm, and perhaps a 70–200mm or my Zeiss 100mm f/2 Makro Planar. Remember, you will be walking and/or catching public transport, so keep it light and to few pieces.

Then we rent a car to go to a castle in the French countryside, and I love countrysides.

Now you’re talking. Don’t fixate on the castle/chateau as your destination, as in Europe such things tend to be crowded tourist attractions. Just stop where a scene takes your fancy, and use the lenses you might on a similar scene at home. Bear in mind that often the fast route is a boring freeway/motorway, with a more scenic alternative on the older local roads.

Then we take a plane to Glasgow and head to the Lakes NP for more scenery.

Did you mean the Lake District National Park in nearby England? There are multiple Youtube photographers doing videos about that one. Or Loch Lomond and the Trossacks?

The only problem with the 70-200 is that while it's very light weight for its size, it's an F/4 so sometimes it's very difficult to get a photo and other times, the photos can be blurred. I'm wondering if it's time to look at getting the same lens with either the F/2.8 OR should I get the version with the IS? Which is better?

I have the original 70–200mm f/4 IS and have never felt the need for f/2.8. I would not want to be carrying that heavier lens even on a train/car trip such as your planned one, much less a short hike in the Lake District.

Anyone care to comment on the new Zeiss lenses versus the new Sigma lenses; this for a Canon 5DS-R.

Do you mean the Milvus lenses? I have the earlier 100mm f/2 and 50mm f/2 Makro Planars, which are the same lenses as the Milvus ones in a different barrel, and they are excellent. The 35mm f/2 Milvus has a less good reputation, not really better than the Canon 16–35mm f/4 IS, which would overall be more useful for this kind of trip.



Feb 07, 2023 at 08:40 PM
leftymgp
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


The 24-105 f/4 IS seems like a great do-it-all travel lens. I tend to bias towards wide angle shots when I'm traveling so I might even prefer a wider zoom. It seems like you like the telephoto focal ranges a lot, and those are great for portraits and some street scenes, but not so great for capturing the context and feel of a place.

The next question is whether you intend to be shooting during daylight hours or also into the evening. If you're going to be shooting after sunset then f/2.8 zooms or faster primes become useful. If not, I'd pack an RF 24-105 f/4 and nothing else.



Feb 07, 2023 at 11:20 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


billsamuels wrote:
I'm leaving in a few weeks for Europe and we're going to Prague, Paris, and ending in London. In Prague, I'm interested in the street scenes as it's pretty old world. There's also a lot of art so I may need a fast lens that can handle the lack of a flash. Then we take a train to Paris, so I'm not sure what I would use on a train and how fast the trains there go between Prague and Paris, but we have to change trains 3 times. Once we arrive in Paris, again street scenes, buildings, etc. Then
...Show more

If you are going to use a zoom in these urban locations, I'd go with a 24mm-something zoom. Your 24-105 could be all the lens you need, with the possible exception of low light situations. (Modern cameras, especially those with IBIS can work in pretty low light though, especially if the concern is camera stability.)

Personally, I would not have a lot of use for a 70-200mm lens in urban Europe. I have not yet been to Prague, but I would not want a 70-200 in London or Paris, where I have photographed a fair amount.

If you are worried about low light, especially interiors, it could be worthwhile to bring one large aperture prime. I'd make it wide, probably 35mm or 28mm. I'm assuming that you shoot full frame.

My own approach is a bit different. I work entirely with prime lenses, and I use a smaller Fujifilm APS-C camera. (It was the XPro2 but it will be the XT5.) The lens I most often have on the camera is a very small 27mm f/2.8 pancake. (Angle-of-view equivalent to about 40mm on FF.) In my view there are a lot of advantages to a very small setup. I won't list them here, but if you want to know more I can explain.

I augment with a few other primes between 14mm (remember, this is APS-C, so convert....) to 90mm, with a couple of them being f/1.4 lenses... since I do a lot to handheld night street photography.



Feb 07, 2023 at 11:29 PM
Ferrophot
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


I travelled Europe with a 6D and 24-105 f4. This was suitable for most photos but for interiors I needed something wider. On a previous trip I tacked Europe on the end of an African Safari. I found the long lenses a drag to cart around and rarely used them. Yes, there will be times when you wish you had a 100-500, but is all the inconvenience worth it for that shot?


Feb 08, 2023 at 12:54 AM
billsamuels
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


Hi Dan,
I understand what you're saying. I prefer to bring prime lenses, but then I would have a lot of them and I have a very limited amount of space, especially on some of the shorter flights that charge you as much for each carry-on as they do for the entire flight. I could either do it with the 24-105 and the 70-200 as I did in 2018, or I even picked up a Canon EF 75-300mm green-band lens for $10 a couple of years ago from an estate sale, which I think means it has the Florite outter lens. It's between an "L" and a contemporary lens, but it's very compact and seems to shoot almost as sharp as the 70-200, but not quite. It's the size of a Zeiss 100mm prime. I also have a Canon 16-35mm F/4, which is a real sharp lens, so that would be zooms with two of them being fairly small.
The Prime option would be to carry the Leica Elmarit-R 28mm (tiny lens), Leica Summicron-R 50mm, which has a permanent Canon lens converter on it, and a Zeiss 100mm ZE, which has both incredible sharpness and amazing rich color tones. It would limit using anything above 100mm and the 100mm is the only large heavy lens. I would bring my newer Canon 5DSR because I have a 6D but it's a high mileage camera and I would like to bring a 6D that I converted to Infrared many years ago. I brought it in 2018 and got some really cool IR shots. Going to the old Euopean city of Prague will really stand out in Infrared, both in color and B&W IR.
Thanks for your input. It helped me narrow it down a lot in my mind.
Bill



Feb 08, 2023 at 01:05 AM
billsamuels
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


I'm wondering what range you ended up shooting with the 24-105mm most of the time? Were you mostly <50mm or >50 but less than 75mm? If I used prime lenses, would I wish I brought a lens stronger than 105mm?

I guess I need to review my 2018 photos and see what I did back then.
Thanks for the input.
Bill



Feb 08, 2023 at 01:10 AM
Uarctos
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


I'll bring the 16-35mm, if you want to take pictures of building/streets and a fast prime. But I usually have only one lens, the 35mm f1.4L, on a full frame camera. I find it perfect for walking around, and it's a very fast lens if needed.
On my recent trips I've used the smartphone.



Feb 08, 2023 at 01:22 AM
melcat
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


I normally make a judgement about whether I will want 200mm when choosing between the 70–200mm f/4 IS and Zeiss 100mm f/2 ZE on a city trip, and it will be one of those two lenses in the telephoto range. 200mm is very useful for picking out architectural details. I prefer 70 to 100mm for street scenes, and I have many, many taken with that Zeiss 100mm lens.

I would have no hesitation in taking the 16–35mm f/4 IS, Zeiss 100mm f/2, and a single body and leaving it at that for the cities. However, I would prefer a 24–70mm lens for landscape, but that’s of course my style and not yours. Even adding a third lens for landscape (perhaps your Summicron 50mm), you could do most or all of the city shooting with the other two lenses. I have found wrangling two lenses much easier than three in a city – it makes all the difference.

BTW Glasgow is apparently the best-preserved large Victorian-style city, despite damage from motorway construction last century. If you like the style, you will want to photograph there.



Feb 08, 2023 at 02:08 AM
billsamuels
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


I've heard a lot of good things about the Canon EF 24-70mm and Sigma also makes a really good version of that lens as well, so I hear, and it's an Art lens. I recently got into their Art lenses when I bought a Sigma SD1 and a 12-24mm Art lens, which the camera was an awful mistake (despite those that really like them) but after converting the lens to take a Canon camera (EF) under Sigma's conversion policy, I really like the sharpness of this lens. I've been thinking about getting either their 24-70 which is always on sale, or perhaps a 40mm lens which is supposed to be one of the sharpest lenses out there today. I think I even saw Fed Miranda write about it.

The only hesitation is I've always liked prime lenses since I was a kid and used my dad's Olympus lenses with my Olypus body.

I was wondering if you or anyone has heard anything about the Sigma 30 or 40mm Art lenses for Canon?
I'm also wondering about the Zeiss classic lens, 21mm? I own it myself, but I've only used it twice and I'm not so sure about it. I also have a Zeiss classic 135mm I bought right as they were changing over, and it was defective so I sent it back after arguing with Zeiss for months because they didn't believe me that the lens could not be focused. When I sent them photos, they kept telling me it was sharp, but it was NOT sharp and I mis-focused. They finally took it back and found a problem with it, but I still don't think the lens is right. So it makes me question whether the 21mm may be out of focus as well, just not as bad.

I also have a Zeiss 25mm (classic) and it's my favorite next to the Leica 28mm. I bought it twice, but it's a fantastic lens. That would be one I would take with me to Europe and would probably be my daily lens in Europe with or without primes. I do wonder though if a Milvus would be a lot better or only slightly better?
Cheers.



Feb 08, 2023 at 03:52 AM
melcat
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


billsamuels wrote:
The only hesitation is I've always liked prime lenses since I was a kid and used my dad's Olympus lenses with my Olypus body.


I did a kind of soft entry to the EF system via my existing (cherrypicked) Olympus lenses, so got to make a direct comparison between them and the native EF lenses as I replaced them. The EF mount ones, most of them zooms, were better. The Zeiss 100mm f/2 was a direct replacement for the Zuiko 100mm f/2.

I'm also wondering about the Zeiss classic lens, 21mm? I own it myself, but I've only used it twice and I'm not so sure about it.

There is a problem with the front falling off. You can fix it with a JIS screwdriver, but it is not a lens I would trust travelling.

I also have a Zeiss classic 135mm I bought right as they were changing over, ...

This one has quite a reputation and is supposedly apochromatic. I’ve seen demo copies sitting around here for months at deep discount. It seems to be a lens many aspire to, but few buy and even fewer keep. IMO it is too heavy for travel and 135mm too inflexible.

I also have a Zeiss 25mm (classic) and it's my favorite next to the Leica 28mm. I bought it twice, but it's a fantastic lens. That would be one I would take with me to Europe and would probably be my daily lens in Europe with or without primes. I do wonder though if a Milvus would be a lot better or only slightly better?

I don’t know about the optical formula, but I would prefer the Milvus version because of the weather sealing and more modern mechanical design.



Feb 08, 2023 at 04:15 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


melcat wrote:
There is a problem with the front falling off. You can fix it with a JIS screwdriver, but it is not a lens I would trust travelling.


There is not a problem with the front falling off this lens.

I haven't experienced this with either of the two CZ Classic 21mm f/2.8 that I've owned, and extensively travelled with. Nor have I ever heard of this as a general problem for this lens.



Feb 08, 2023 at 07:23 AM
melcat
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


jcolwell wrote:
There is not a problem with the front falling off this lens.


It was this I was thinking of:



“Front falling off” was a reference to a famous skit; “works loose” is an accurate description of the lens in the video, although doubtless if you didn’t get it fixed it would eventually fall off. Comments under the video show it was not a unique failure. Little can be inferred about the actual incidence of this problem from this.

I’ll leave you to judge whether you think this is a good design, with the splayed cone part of the barrel levering those tiny screws.



Feb 08, 2023 at 08:15 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


Though this goes a bit past the original question, I want to share a bit about my personal perspective on travel photography gear. (And let me start by acknowledging that there is a lot of subjective, conditional stuff when it comes to this subject — ranging from personal preferences, to the role of photography in the overall experience of travel, to the particular subjects you'll photograph.)

I use a fairly large Canon system for much of my photography, typically done from the tripod. I carry a lot of stuff when I go into the field for that photography. Until over a decade ago I basically adapted that system for travel, initially by trying to limit the number of zoom lenses I took to 2 or 3 and eventually to use a few small primes in place of some of the zooms, depending on where I went and what I'd photograph. I gradually moved toward a general minimum Canon-based travel kit that used only the 24-105mm lens, though specialized needs would change that. I was once asked to photograph a musical event NYC and ended up carrying a 135mm f/2, for example.

Then I had a travel epiphany about a decade ago. We were headed out on a European trip of a couple of weeks duration when I took a look at a smaller alternative. Today there are multiple options, but I got a very small Fujifilm APS-C camera (the original XE1) with a couple of small primes and — because I still thought I needed it — a 55-200mm zoom. Instead of dragging along a dedicated "camera bag" or backpack, the whole mess fit into a medium size messenger bag... along with my laptop and all the personal gear I'd keep with me on the plane.

Over a period of year or two I realized that I could photograph virtually every subject I would encounter with a very small prime-only kit. For the kind of photography I do when traveling to mostly urban US and European places, there are advantages to having a smaller, lighter kit that outweigh the concern that if I don't take everything I might be unable to photograph some outlier subject. No matter how much gear you carry, there will always be something that you aren't equipped for in an ideal way. And, as I eventually realized, there are often ways to photograph a subject effectively with the gear you have.

Some of the advantages of the smaller and lighter approach:

1. We prefer to rely entirely on carry-on luggage, even on quite lengthy (up to a couple of months) overseas trips. When I carry the big gear on flights (as we did just last October when we photographed fall color in New England, the luggage situation becomes more complicated and it is almost impossible to avoid checking luggage. With the small gear this isn't a problem.

2. Once on the ground at our destination and as we travel around "locally" but car, bus, train, plane, and on foot... the smaller gear is again much easier to manage. Typically I'll have a travel pack on my back with the messenger-style bag over my shoulder.

3. When in a location and going out to photograph, I can use the same messenger-style bag — which doesn't look like a camera bag. I think I look less like "tourist with a big camera slung over his shoulder" this way, which lets me photograph places and subjects where that traditional look might be detrimental. Basically I work "fast and light." Not incidentally, the light and small gear also weighs me down a lot less as I travel around cities.

4. While I bring along several primes, because I shoot APS-C they are pretty small. And I almost never carry all of them at once when I go out to shoot. Most often for daytime photography I carry only a single lens, an APS-C 27mm f/2.8 pancake. If I think I'm going to shoot in tighter spaces I add a small 14mm f/2.8. If Think I'll need something longer I add a 90mm lens. Worst case, three lenses. When I shoot at night I likely leave all of those locked up at the hotel and substitute two f/1.4 primes.

5. I know there's a fear that with limited lenses and with primes that we might get caught without the focal length we need. It can happen. But the truth is that this even happens when I'm using by bigger Canon kit for landscape photography and something happens fast. We never can count on have exactly the right gear and enough time to set it up, even if we carry a gigantic kit. And it turns out, at least for me, that the number of subjects that I actually cannot photograph effectively with this kit is extremely tiny.

If someone had told me 20 years ago that this is what would end up being my favorite — and, honestly, most effective — kit for travel photography I would never have believed them. But it is.

YMMV,

Dan



Feb 08, 2023 at 11:27 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


I'm somewhat echoing others. My air travel kit from the time of the original 5D has been a 5D#, 20mm prime, 24-105 L, 100-400 L and a G series. I early on found that if I needed more than 100, I needed more than 200 and then mostly for wildlife. There isn't much a 24-105 f4 IS lens can't capture nicely on a full frame body. I've used Lightroom to make histograms of my focal length usage and it is the entire range with increased emphasis on the two ends. My little Voightlander 20 mm nicely fills the wide.

But I have to add that while I won't leave my 5 series home, the G1X Mk III that I've been using the last 5 years has been excellent for use in cities, museums, restaurants, village markets or other crowded places. Or when I have a long or wide on my FF. It always goes and its image quality is indistinguishable to my eyes. A 14 oz jewell.

I've recently upgraded to the R5 but purchased it with the RF 24-105 f4, a travel necessity. I mainly upgraded because I was impressed with the RF 100-400 for non dedicated wildlife use saving a couple of pounds on my back. And while I also bought the RF 14-35 f4, I suspect the RF 16 will replace the Voightlander 20 given the R5's cropping ability. So bottom line the same 24-105 based travel kit as always.



Feb 08, 2023 at 03:33 PM
jay w
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


To the original OP, if most of your pictures are with the 70-200, take the 70-200. I can't imagine needing a 2.8 version with the high ISO abilities of cameras AND the weight penalty, but if it's the right tool... Also, if you're happy with the 24-105, you're all set.

I agree with Dan that shooting with a small, light camera is really a worthy goal. I too have been really debating my lens choice for an upcoming trip. To get the small, light camera, I'm bringing a 40mm 2.8. That's not a lens many talk about. I dislike the 24-105 (I have one), but I like the 16-35 and use that lens frequently, so that will come along. Now I'm debating bringing the same lens as you (70-200) or a Nikon 105 (small). For me, I think the 70-200 would get left behind most of the time, but it's very useful lens. So that kit and a small tripod (max height 12"), and that's all I'll bring, although we may be in one location for 3 weeks.

Good luck and bring your favorite gear.



Feb 08, 2023 at 08:14 PM
comotionfilms
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


For a big trip like this, have you thought about a new body? Say spend 1500 on the R8, add the 35 1.8 , rf 16mm, and maybe the rf 85 1.8. Honestly, I shoot most of my travel stuff just with a 35mm, but I can see how some folks would want something wider and longer. All three of these lenses are small and light, as is the mirrorless body. Most days I’d just leave the 85mm and take the 16 and the 35.



Feb 08, 2023 at 11:12 PM
PIOK
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


For Prague I like 14 - 35( 16 - 35 ) Some nice streets are very narrow.
In Paris there is a bit more space but also wide angle works very well. 70 - 200 as always. You can gett some cool shots. But is just too many people everywhere to carry so much stuff.



Feb 08, 2023 at 11:34 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


If you like the EF 70-200/4 non-IS, then yes, it's definitely worth getting the IS version for lower light use at slower shutter speeds. The second IS version is supposedly a bit sharper, but it's also a bit larger than the first IS version, which can be found for quite good secondhand prices.

If you're willing to switch to the RF system, you could get the really small (for a 70-200) RF 70-200/4. I just tried it at a shoot and it's so nice to use because it's so small, and really sharp, too, with great IS. If you want to stick with EF, a 'sleeper' lens to consider is the 70-300/4-5.6L. You mentioned you got the 70-300 with the green ring for the bargain price of $10. That really is a great price. That green ring means it's a DO (diffractive optics) lens and it was quite expensive when new. DO allows for a more compact lens design, but that particular model got a bad reputation for poor/low contrast, IIRC.

In the RF system, I'd probably suggest 16/2.8, 24-105/4 and 70-200/4. Optionally: 16/2.8 and 24-240, or 16/2.8, 24-105/4 and RF 100-400. Yeah, your Zeiss 25 will be a very sharp lens, but it's also big and heavy. Really up to you if you want to carry around a bunch of heavy primes. The Sigma 40/1.4 is also huge. As is their 28/1.4. Probably depends if you're on a photo-centric trip. If not, the zooms would be a worthwhile compromise.

My European city experience is primarily in Germany and mostly around Munich. I've shot there with 16-35, 70-200 Canon zooms and was able to find suitable compositions. More recently I traveled with a more basic Leica M kit with 21, 28, 50 and 90mm primes. And again, I always found suitable compositions. Sure, maybe I 'missed' something where I could have used a 200, but knowing I only could cover the 21-90 range, that is what I 'saw' compositionally in my mind while wandering around. So, take what you like and you'll find/see suitable compositions.



Feb 09, 2023 at 01:02 AM
patotts
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Best Lenses for European Street Scenes & Countrysides?


I'd get a Ricoh GRIII (or GRIIIx) to have in your pocket instead.

Are you going on a photo trip or are you going on a family vacation? If the latter, my wife gets sick and tired of me asking her to wait here and there, or go up early/stay late for the right light, etc. If it is a spouse/partner/family trip, I'd go as light as possible and make the most of it. 24-105 will have to do, it would be great to have something wider and perhaps a fast f/1.4 type prime for low light, e.g. 50/1.4.

Otherwise, enjoy the trip, and pack a GRIII in your pocket.



Feb 09, 2023 at 08:17 AM
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