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3rd party lenses

  
 
jay w
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 3rd party lenses


Excuse my wandering...

I have a 5Div and have mainly used it for landscape with a 16-35 f4, a contax 50 f1.7 (my sharpest lens) and a Nikon 105 f2.5 on a tripod with live view. I'm happy with the setup. The problem is as a travel camera. (New traveler after retiring.)

-I can't bring myself to using the 24-105. (I don't like the resolution.)
-I can't really focus the Nikkor 105 through the viewfinder (poor eyes). I can get in the ballpark. I can use 5x live view and hold still enough, but it's a slow way to shoot.
-My "travel kit" this year will probably be the 16-35 (pretty big), a 40 2.8, and 70-200 F4. More gear than I'd like to haul...

Of course an "R" camera with focus peaking would help with the manual focus 50 (I prefer the 50 over the 40) and 105. The problem I see, is that the lenses Canon offers in R mount are huge. Even the EF 85 - 135 lenses are large pipes, so it doesn't seem that Canon is a good option for a travel camera.

This brings up third party lenses or the lack thereof. Is Zeiss going to offer Batis in an R mount? Or Voigtlander apos in the R mount? Man, that would go a long way to staying in the Canon line down the road.

Thanks for hanging with me.

Jay



Jan 24, 2023 at 07:38 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 3rd party lenses


I mean, the RF 14-35 (or 15-30), 50/1.8 and 70-200/4 matches more or less your current ‘travel’ kit but all are the same size or notably smaller than the EF counterparts.

Can also go for like the 16/2.8, 35/1.8 and 85/2 and have a good and quite compact prime kit.



Jan 24, 2023 at 08:14 PM
melcat
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 3rd party lenses


You’re using the wrong body for those lenses. You want one which can take a “super precision focussing screen”, to which Canon gives names like Ee-S, Ec-S etc. depending on the body. Canon ceased providing for interchangeable focussing screens in their bodies several versions ago. I think, from memory, the last 5-series DSLR to support them was the Mk II. I know I had an original 5D with the accessory -S screen on which I used with great success my OM Zuiko 100mm f/2, 50mm f/1.8 “made in Japan”, and also some Zuiko f/2.8 wides. Recent 1-series allowed physical fitment of the -S screen but lacked firmware support for metering through them. The original 6D supported these screens and was a favourite among those using adapted manual lenses.

These screens show depth of field effects at larger apertures at the cost of brightness. “Larger” does not extend to f/1.2 though.

I can see you staying with Canon for that excellent 16–35mm (I have one too), which I don’t think you’ll find a peer for in Sony, but, on the other hand, there is no peer for Sony’s new 24–70mm f/2.8 II. Many commentators have asserted that Canon has blocked third party lenses from native RF (it uses a protocol and pins separate from the EF ones in the mount), and Canon hasn’t denied it, so it would be prudent to assume there will never be any.


Edited on Jan 24, 2023 at 09:45 PM · View previous versions



Jan 24, 2023 at 08:29 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 3rd party lenses


I guess you want autofocus? If not, then adapting any decent, compact manual focus prime from the past few decades of SLR systems to an R camera will probably get you something more compact. There's also a plethora of rangefinder system lenses that are very compact and very sharp. But the tradeoff with those (other than manual focusing) is that many perform best optically on sensors with very thin sensor stacks (such as Leica's M system). From my own testing of these on the R5 and R6, images from rangefinder lenses generally 50mm and wider are less sharp on the R system compared to Leica M, unless stopped down to at least f/5.6 (this is only relevant if you expect good across-frame sharpness, which based on your 24-105 comment, seems like you probably do).

If you want FF sensor and AF, then unfortunately you're going to end up with 'thicker' lenses than were available for manual focus systems of the past. An option is to move to APS-C or micro 4/3. Smaller sensors allow for smaller lens designs.

For the time being it's unlikely we'll see Zeiss Batis in Canon R because it's autofocus and apparently Canon is not allowing any third-party AF lenses to use the RF mount. Voigtlander for R seems more plausible because it's manual focus, but my impression about Cosina (the company producing Voigtlander) is that they're not going to make anything unless they have 100% permission from the OEM. They're starting to release some lenses now for Nikon Z, so who knows, maybe they've also been in discussions with Canon? But it's probably some time still before we see anything available for purchase.

About the most compact FF AF lenses I can think of currently, is the line of "I" series lenses by Sigma for Sony and L-mount mirrorless (L-mount is Leica, Panasonic and Sigma cameras). But it tops out at 90mm.

If you want more reach but small, then you might be better with APS-C or m43.



Jan 24, 2023 at 08:41 PM
jay w
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 3rd party lenses


Melcat, that brings up an interesting idea I hadn't considered. I have a 5Dii with a matt replacement screen I put in, but I didn't notice much difference. I'll pull that out and see if my manual focus is better. Other things would suffer (vs. the iv), but it would be interesting to give it a shot. Thanks. (I'm sure that 100 mm is beautiful....)


Jan 24, 2023 at 08:42 PM
Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 3rd party lenses


What are you shooting and using it for that requires more resolution than the EF 24-105L? What do you use for pp?

I love the EF 16-35 f/4L; bought the 14-35 for my R5 because the former + adapter is ungainly. Frankly, the 14-35 isn’t the best lens I’ve ever owned, but it sure does a nice job most of the time. It’s nice and small, and is almost always in my kit. I’ve got 3 RF zooms and have no plans to get other RF lenses unless Canon releases lenses to replace a couple of fairly specialized EF ones I have. I’m mostly a pretty picky bird photographer, and so far the 100-500’s been great. The 14-35’s nice, light, and compact and very versatile. Although not critically sharp (as reviewers are quick to point out), it’s fine for many things. The shorter FL RF primes are very well regarded.

It’s anyone’s guess whether Zeiss or anyone else is going to make RF lenses, and if they do, what those lenses might be. Apparently Canon tied the RF technologies up with patents pretty well and aren’t licensing them (or so the rumors say).



Jan 24, 2023 at 08:44 PM
jay w
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 3rd party lenses


Yeah, I'd like autofocus at least for a telephoto. Based on reputation, a batis 85 would be a nice option. With focus peaking (which I've never used), I THINK I could focus a 50 mm quick and accurately enough.

As for resolution, I just know that the 24-105 doesn't get me excited. I've always kind of hated the lens. I like the Zeiss 21 and 25 but I can't tell what the focus confirm is pinpointing. The Rokinon 35, contax 28 are also fine, but the contax vignettes, the Nikkor 28 is similar but better close up. All these don't offer me much more than the 16-35 which I love for the versatility, sharpness and yes, autofocus. That said, it's not close to the 50mm 1.7 in sharpness. My Nikon 105 is also sharp enough but smooth. I like the look. So I'd prefer that over the 70-200 f4, but I think autofocus is the priority this trip.

For travel, I'd say I concentrate more on street and scenery, less on people. Photoshop CS5 (yeah, really). Maybe I should rent an R6 (and adapter) and try the focus peaking. I probably have enough lenses.




Jan 24, 2023 at 09:41 PM
melcat
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 3rd party lenses


jay w wrote:
(I'm sure that 100 mm is beautiful....)


It was, but I sold it for what it had cost me all those years before I’d hiked and ridden a Zodiac with it. As well as the lack of auto aperture and EXIF, my OM–EF adapter was contaminating the sensor. Whether it was leaking dust in or shedding paint, I never found out, but I stopped using all my Zuikos and managed to sell most of them. I replaced the Zuiko 100mm f/2 with a Zeiss 100mm f/2 Makro Planar, which these days I use on a 1Ds Mk III. I tried it on my new RF mount body and can focus it with or without the little arrows aid enabled; but manual focus is never going to be as fast as autofocus.



Jan 24, 2023 at 09:41 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 3rd party lenses


The EF 85/1.8 & 100/2 and RF 85/2 are similar to the 105 2.5 and batis for weight. Both 85's look like they'd be sharp stopped down for landscapes.

There's 20mm Voightlander. Very lightweight.



Jan 24, 2023 at 11:43 PM
melcat
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 3rd party lenses


I actually bought the EF 85mm f/1.8 with my very first Canon camera, but soon ran into its well-known problem with purple fringing wide open in bright conditions. It would not be my choice for travel over a standard zoom.


Jan 25, 2023 at 12:34 AM
 


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grapheo
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 3rd party lenses


You can use M-mount Voigtländer lenses on RF. I use one myself. It's full manual anyway. Works well.


Jan 25, 2023 at 03:36 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 3rd party lenses


There are some smaller Canon bodies in the mirrorless space that make pretty decent travel bodies.

In the R lineup:
RP - FF
R7 - crop, but 33Mpx makes up for most of the diffs between an equiv Canon FF
R10 - crop

I personally use the M series, very small lenses, and there are some very nice glass for it. I use a couple 3rd party lenses, a 12 f2.8 and a 50 1.2, but also have some canon. The EFS lenses work on it as well, so the 55-250 IS STM makes for a good long lens on that crop lineup.

My M50 camera, 4 3rd party batteries and a charger, adapter, and 4 lenses all fit inside a very camera bag, one that wouldn't even hold just my 5D4 and 70-200. I usually take the 12mm, 50mm, 15-45 efm and 55-250 efs. I still have my 18-55 STM because it still is one of the best group photo lenses for the money, but don't use it that often. I have wide angle, fast portrait, long zoom, and general purpose all covered in these 4 lenses for travel.

Every thing fits into a bag similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/Compact-Zippered-Pockets-Accessory-Compartments/dp/B00TOUE2ZQ/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=camera+bags&qid=1674652871&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWU8xNVlFOEFJSEc3JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjU2OTI2OFZZSlJWWFpaUU0wJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwMTMxOTkxN1hETUlUT1VBNjcxJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


A few pics:






That first picture is a bit of a cheat though, I took a 4x4 grid of images and merged them to create a 45Mpx result. But it turned out great, I can zoom into the houses and in some cases, see people on their decks. The 12mm lens is good, but not that good in the corners...



Jan 25, 2023 at 07:16 AM
jedibrain
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 3rd party lenses


Really even an EOS R which can be had very good priced these days, and which has the same sensor as your 5DIV would help a lot with focusing. Give it a shot.

The R system has lots of adapters out there for manual lenses too.

For AF options, Canon does have some really nice travel oriented lenses, like the 24-240 in the RF mount. The entry level primes in 24/35/50/85mm are generally well received as well.



Jan 25, 2023 at 07:33 AM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 3rd party lenses


When I hear this I think you are a prime candidate for a smaller sensor camera, APS, or m43. I urge you to do some research into these rather than feel you have to stick with FF.


Jan 25, 2023 at 09:29 AM
Sy Sez
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 3rd party lenses


IMO, with a WA lens, when used for Landscape's on a MILCH camera, AF is for the most part irrelevant, as you can view the scene in real time, magnify it, and precisely control the DOF, & point of focus manually.


Jan 25, 2023 at 09:40 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 3rd party lenses



melcat wrote:
I actually bought the EF 85mm f/1.8 with my very first Canon camera, but soon ran into its well-known problem with purple fringing wide open in bright conditions. It would not be my choice for travel over a standard zoom.


My 75-300 v3 has a lot of purple fringing. I don't like it, but all I have to do is turn on CA corrections in camera, that seems to do a good job on it, and /or take care of it in pp by checking a box or 3. Not terribly hard to deal with imo. And for landscapes in bright light, the op isn't likely to be shooting at 1.8, anyway

I downloaded a couple images off DPR, they used the 85/1.8 at 5.6 for their image comparison tool!!! You'd think they have access to a lot of sharp lenses.

The 70-200/4's don't seem too oppressive though. Only about a half pound heavier than the primes





Jan 25, 2023 at 11:30 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 3rd party lenses


I remember when I had the Tokina 11-16 lens... It was a great lens, but it's archilles heel was CA. I hated having to post process everything from that lens, unless I would stop it down to like f8, which is pretty much not needed on UWA lenses. It took a bit of the fun of that lens out for me. It was a very creative tool with great results, barring that. The goals these days is to reduce post processing however possible, because working through 200-500 shots per outing (or more depending on venue) takes long enough as it is, and every new step to filter something out adds that much more time to the final product.


Jan 25, 2023 at 12:46 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 3rd party lenses




TeamSpeed wrote:
I remember when I had the Tokina 11-16 lens... It was a great lens, but it's archilles heel was CA. I hated having to post process everything from that lens, unless I would stop it down to like f8, which is pretty much not needed on UWA lenses. It took a bit of the fun of that lens out for me. It was a very creative tool with great results, barring that. The goals these days is to reduce post processing however possible, because working through 200-500 shots per outing (or more depending on venue) takes long enough as it
...Show more

I still have it, my gripe is it seems to top out at 5.6, like most modern lenses. I mostly use uwa for landscape, and prefer f/8+.

Couldn't you just use lens corrections lately?



Jan 25, 2023 at 01:07 PM
comotionfilms
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 3rd party lenses


Glad to hear I’m not the only one who doesn’t care for the 24-105…

I’d pick up a refurb EOS R (or r6) and adapt your current lenses, replacing them as you see fit. The RF 35 is pretty small and nice, and I imagine the 24 is similar. The 50 is also really tiny. The cheaper 85 isn’t huge, and you won’t need an adapter. I actually prefer the Samyang RF AF 85, but good luck finding one.

All that said, I actually get by with just a 35mm when I travel, so I usually just grab my Sony RX1rii with its fixed 35. It’s a great (and tiny) travel combo. I want to enjoy traveling, and I find carrying anything larger to just feel like work.



Jan 25, 2023 at 02:26 PM
jay w
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 3rd party lenses


I've looked at a bunch of cameras. I started with the Sony RX1 and Fuji X100 as a digital replacement for my Rollei 35S (my travel camera of the 80s). Then an X-S10 didn't seem much bigger, then the Sony A7c was about the same size but full frame, hell, get the A7iv, but I'm buying into a new system. So I'll tread water a while and see what happens. I figure I can always take the 5Div and the pancake 40 for a small setup (leaving the zooms in the hotel).

Thanks all for the ideas.



Jan 26, 2023 at 06:04 PM
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