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Tell Me Why

  
 
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Tell Me Why


If you ...

o don't have any issues keeping eyes of birds, animals and athletes in focus in action/movement during any shoot (ie. > 80% keeper rate of eyes/faces in focus as you desired) without having to resort to keeping the DOF very deep for error

o you are happy with your prefocus and then recompose for composition on subjects, or you like shooting more loosely and cropping for composition later, or your off-center AF points always get the job done with good focus on your shots with the composition you were striving for

o don't need 20, or even a faster 30fps for anything

o don't need completely silent shutter while still doing bursts

o don't need more DR at the lowest of ISO settings

o cannot come up with any reason that a tilt/touch LCD could really help in some shooting situations

o don't do macro shooting where focus peaking and 5x loupe can help

o don't have any lenses without IS, or do but wish they were stabilized

o always get your exposure settings correct (ie. don't care to see your exposure before you snap the shutter)

o don't shoot low light situations where the OVF is hard to see what is in the scene

o are completely happy with the resolution you have now and don't need more for either cropping ability or better IQ/detail capture

o never worry about long term service and support for your gear

o are never really bothered by midday sun or bright lighting reducing your ability to use that rear LCD

o don't see any compelling RF lenses that would really solve some issues, while still being able to use all of your EF and EFS glass at the same time

o don't need the newest video features, modes, and framerates

o don't need the latest fun features like focus bracketing, etc

...
then you don't need an R series body.

(for someone that is an avid landscape photographer, there are likely only about 5-6 of these that might be enticing, IMO)

----------


Hint, put these into a spreadsheet, put a 1-5 ranking of "couldn't care less" to "that would be very handy day to day", rank each one, take an average and if it is under 3, just forget about the R series until newer models come out. 3 and up means you likely should keep tabs on the R market and maybe even think about acquiring one.

1-couldn't care less
2-meh
3-that's pretty neat, I am curious
4-that could help with some of what I shoot
5-that would help me very often or I really like that feature

You did ask!



Jan 25, 2023 at 12:17 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Tell Me Why


OntheRez wrote:
I'd like an opinion on the inverse question. If I have a 1Dx II in excellent condition why would I want any of the R cameras? (Also have 5D IV, 80D + 7 lenses.)


You already have very capable gear. If you already have an R6 like the op or a 1Dx series, you probably don't need a new camera.

If I shot portraits at 1.2 a lot maybe I'd be looking more. But I don't. I filled up a card at 3fps or less recently and find 30fps probably more likely to fill up my card.

And I doubt the 1Dx2 has poor af or fps. Even on relatively infinite focus points I found it less irritating to get the af point close then focus and recompose. I'd think that the 1Dx2 has mirrorless features in LV, even the SL2 did



Jan 25, 2023 at 12:51 PM
CCoppola82
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Tell Me Why


I don’t have an r6 but I have an R. I do some extensive road trip/trailer camping and “boondocking” (off grid camping) with my family and while I love certain things about the R…the 1dx goes with me. I just trust it more. It’s durable as hell, can handle just about any shooting situation or environment, and maybe even more importantly I don’t have a subconscious fear of breaking the thing. I can grab a new 1dx for 8-900$. Breaking an R6 or R5 I believe is far more likely and far more costly. Also, battery life matters to me a lot. I can probably shoot almost an entire week with 2 batteries. My R I use for a couple hours and lose 50% capacity. In MY personal situation, the 1dxiii actually makes sense because it shoots 3k shots per charge and I don’t always have access to power. I’m at a point in photography where I have a few different kits that are specific to different situations. FWIW….i love shooting the 1d bodies and prefer the heft of the body to be closer my core and the moderate size of older EF glass, whereas the lighter weight R camera and bulky RF L series just feel off balance.


Jan 25, 2023 at 04:06 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Tell Me Why


The R isn’t really a good representative of the current R lineup. It was a stop gap offering to get into the mirrorless FF space, and to introduce the RF lens lineup.

Many of the R gripes and shortcomings have been addressed in subsequent offerings.

Battery life is pretty good now, but let’s face it, the larger lpe4 is basically 1.5 lpe6 batteries, so 3 lpe6 batteries are easily good for a week of shooting, or maybe something like 1500 shots anyways.

I got tired of the R after about three months and sold it, it was just not quite at the level I was hoping for.



Jan 25, 2023 at 04:15 PM
Gochugogi
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Tell Me Why


Most of us don't buy new cameras out of need or push these toys to the bleeding edge of their imaging abilities or auto focus performance. No spreadsheet zombies here. We buy them to play with: have fun dabbling in a hobby which can be both artistic and relaxing. Plus, cameras and associated accessories are luxury items like fancy firearms, motorcycles, airplanes, sailboats—but cheaper than a mistress—so no we buy them to do happy stuff. Cameras are also a great excuse to travel and hike that trail you may otherwise never venture.

As for the R, I really like my mine. IQ is head and shoulders is above my R7 but about as good as my new R6 MKII. Yes, the R6 MKII 6X oversampled 4K is amazingly for guitar videos and kicks the R's ancient video impaired arse. But for stills and feel in the hand the R6 MKII offers little improvement for what I do—landscape, macro and travel. R6 MK II focus stacking is the big standout but otherwise the tiny gain in dynamic range is underwhelming. If I was into BIF or sports I'm sure I'd think differently...



Jan 25, 2023 at 08:23 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Tell Me Why


The R evf refresh rate is terrible for sports, eye AF is first gen and also not good for sports, and battery life was worse than the R6. There wasn’t much of an improvement over my 5d4 other than the eye af, thus why I sold it. I ran a couple rugby games through it and my keeper rate was lower than my prior gear.

For any other kind of photography, it would be great.

Edited on Jan 25, 2023 at 10:25 PM · View previous versions



Jan 25, 2023 at 10:14 PM
Gochugogi
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Tell Me Why


My hit rate with the R for macro and landscape was much higher than meh prior EOS 6D and 5D MKII, so I figured it was a keeper. I'm not sure what rugby is—a senior citizen board game?—but I don't do sports so it's all good.


Jan 25, 2023 at 10:20 PM
Bassat
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Tell Me Why


OntheRez wrote:
I'd like an opinion on the inverse question. If I have a 1Dx II in excellent condition why would I want any of the R cameras? (Also have 5D IV, 80D + 7 lenses.)


You may be better off to make this question a new thread.

That said, I'll play. I can't answer the question for you. But the answer for me is, "I have no use for an RF-mount camera." I am currently using a 6DII, 90D, & 80D, and 5 different EF-mount film bodies (650, 7S, 1, 1n, 1v). Still have but don't frequently use a YaschicaMat TLR, also. At least twice, I have dug deep into what RF cameras/lenses can do. I can't find anything I need. If I can do everything I NEED to do with a camera, with an EOS 650 (not 650D), and I can't find anything in the feature list of RF bodies I WANT, why bother? Yes, I do realize I am firmly in the minority on this.





Jan 26, 2023 at 04:08 AM
 


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TeamSpeed
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Tell Me Why


I don't NEED the R6 I have, the 5D4 has served my many sports and action needs for years. However, I always try to find the tools and changes to make my life a bit easier and so that I spend less time on the computer, and the R6 has done that for me. I now get images composed correctly in the frame during the shot while the camera maintains focus on someone's eyes as they move around. How does this save me time?

Scenario 1: When I take 300+ shots of an athlete on my 5D4, I have to shoot more loosely and then crop during post for the composition I want, vs now being able to shoot a bit more tightly and not having to crop many of the images for composition later. That is just one example, and I figure this saves me about 5sec a file = about 10-20 minutes a shoot.

Scenario 2: High ISO is cleaner on the R6 as well beyond 12800, than the 5D4, so that saves me some post processing of low light fast shutter shots. For marching band, I will also end up with several hundred shots per event for our school, and less cleanup = less time spent. When I can take the images right out of the camera now and not have to run the raw through DPP for some typical tweaks I used to perform, coupled with running the resulting JPG through a bulk NR custom action I have created = quite a bit of saved time.

Savings (Scenarios 1 and 2 could be inclusive): I figure from just one night of shooting an event, I have saved over an hour of work (maybe closer to 2 depending on conditions and event) from the old days from the 7D2 (which the R6 replaced) per event and that adds up. The savings over the 5D4 is a bit less, but there is still a noticeable savings.

So like SO MANY other things in life, sure we can make due with older, or lesser, or less capable devices, than what may be on the market, we just have to decide on our priorities. Can I get to the grocery store with my toyota? Sure. Do I need a Model 3 Performance to get me there? No. But one is WAY more fun (and faster) than the other, and sometimes I want the fun more than the function.



Jan 26, 2023 at 11:13 AM
OntheRez
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Tell Me Why


I appreciate all the comments on my question and the pro/con lists are useful. I'm a partial pro though with the death of both HS sports and galleries during the pandemic things have gotten even more partial. In considering what I shoot and the results, I can't see that the 1Dx II with its 14 fps needs greater speed. The 5DIV with proper development yields superb results even when printed 20x60 on canvas.

So given that my professional work has drastically dropped off, I'll stick with the gear I have. I guess it's that old saying, "Just because they introduced a new camera doesn't mean all the old ones don't work anymore."



Jan 27, 2023 at 10:02 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Tell Me Why


It is always good to know one's needs and objectively consider the options and whether it is worth any kind of financial outlay to move. That is the best approach to the whole DSLR vs mirrorless move.

Sometimes we still get DSLR zealots that somehow think that there is nothing that mirrorless offers over DSLRs, and that simply isn't true. There are advantages, however each person has to consider "how much of an advantage" each difference is really worth to what and how they shoot.


Just for giggles, for those that use google docs, you can access this and then make a copy to your own account, then have go at playing around with the "scorecard". It isn't perfect, but I tried to weight the scores a bit based on your input. It could use some help I am sure. Could throw out the "value to me" column, and just go with 1-5 values, then make a decision on that, but eh, in the end it is just a rudimentary tool at best.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fC7nJAtuIHu1-h41EpAoz6kxV7zSt0weNNzpgNVENR0/edit?usp=sharing



Jan 27, 2023 at 10:30 AM
Bernie_King
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Tell Me Why


Whisle wrote:
Thanks for the answer. Don't really shoot in weather and never do video. Why would AF be better?



It's not. There are some situations where getting an initial lock may be harder due to a lack of cross points (Think a large bird flying at you head on) but other than that, the new AI systems will out track any DSLR. I had the 1DX and 1DX II. When the R5 and R6 were announced, I ordered both, but because of the crazy supply chain problems of the time (and to a lesser extent now) I got the R6 first and the R5 5 months later. So for a while I had the 1DX II and the R6. After the first shot the 1DX II was a backup camera that only got used if I was on a portrait shoot and I wanted to run two different focal lengths. I never took it out for Wildlife, which is something I do a lot. When the R5 came, the 1DX II was sold. I don't think I put more that 100 frames on it after the R6 came. The R6 has been replaced by the R3 now in my bag, but it was a fantastic camera. DSLR's are the past. If I were you and you need a 2nd camera, maybe pick up an R6 II (or R5 if you can afford it) or a 2nd hand R6 if you're on a budget. Honestly the only thing a 1DX can give you that the R6 can't is the heavy weather sealing/durability and longer battery life



Jan 30, 2023 at 07:47 AM
tkbslc
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Tell Me Why


Whisle wrote:
If I have a R6 why would I want a 1DX also?


If you can't answer this yourself, you don't want one. Simple as that.



Jan 30, 2023 at 11:32 AM
Whisle
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Tell Me Why


Now that I have totally forgotten the maybe I wanted one thought from my memory you guys are still whipping this thread. , please stop.


Jan 31, 2023 at 09:05 AM
Dragonfire
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Tell Me Why


The 1D series is a lethal weapon if attacked


Jan 31, 2023 at 10:57 AM
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