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Archive 2023 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?

  
 
dclark
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Scott Stoness wrote:
Great post

- and I will summarize it for myself - an approximate 100 dpi monitor is optimal for those that sit at a normal distance from the screen editing and have normal eyesight. Those who lean in [so they are only seeing a portion of the screen] and have higher acuity (the young) might be able to use a higher dpi in editing.

[As you have said, photography is not about line pairs and the 100-150 dpi range is likely high for photography editing. Lets assume 80% resulting in 80-120dpi is optimal given most people do not have 20/20
...Show more

Thanks for your comment.

The formula is 286/distance(ft), so if normal viewing distance is about 2 feet, a normal eye can resolve 143 PPI, but somewhat less for photos. If your normal viewing distance is less than 2' that number is higher. For example I normally view from about 20" and for normal eye acuity that means I can resolve 172PPI. Dropping from 143-172 all the way to 100 is pretty far. I don't think I would go that far, and I would not go to 80PPI for normal vision.

A 2560x1440 27" delivers ~109PPI. For this discussion let's assume the normal eye can resolve 109PPI in a contone photographic image when viewed from 2'. That should be about right.

That assumption means if I use a 27" 2K display zoomed to 100% and view it at 2', it is a perfect match to my eye acuity for photos. But I am only viewing 3.7MP of the image. If I lean closer to the display I am not likely to see any additional detail. I just see the image pixelated. In this case the photographer needs to scan around the image, zooming to 100% to inspect detail (hit the Z key in LR).

Consider using a 27" 4K display, which has 166PPI. If I inspect an image zoomed to 100" I see 8.3MP of the image. It looks sharper because the image details are smaller. I can lean forward by a factor of 109/166 to 1.3' from the screen before I starting seeing pixelation of the image. The detail I see from 1.3' is the same as the detail I see at 2' with the 2K display, and the amount of the image I am able to see up close is probably the same I see from 2' with the 2K display. This requires less scanning around the image and zooming, but requires a lot of moving in and out. Many photographers prefer that way of operating. I don't. When I use a 4K display I set up to zoom 150-200% rather than moving in and out. One has to be a bit careful about how the zooming in samples the image since 200% does not mean the image is presented in 2x2 blocks. IMO any effect from sampling is negligible.

Also we need to consider that the 27" 4K display will probably look better than the 2K display for graphics and fonts, even at the normal viewing distance.

It's possible to do this kind of analysis for different pixel densities, screen sizes, viewing distances, and individual eyesight to decide what works best for each of us. I hope this discussion is helpful, not confusing.



Jan 30, 2023 at 08:44 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Thanks dclark.

As an aside:

I just went back to look at Mark Metternich

at about 1.55 minutes

Mark says that you should not edit on a 4k or 5k (30 or 27") monitor because editing a picture that is not around 100dpi results in not being able to see the results of your sharpening when printed. Eg you cannot tell when you oversharpen.

He recommends (elsewhere) that the best monitor for editing is 10bit, 30", 2560x1600 (~100dpi) and says the 27" version (~109dpi) of this is okay as well. In the video (indicated above) he says that a 4k/5k monitor is difficult to use to prepare an image for print.

I cannot say I understand this but I suspect it links to the maximum resolution you would be printing is 200-300ppi. I don't understand why 100 dpi (ppi) tells the most about over sharpening of something printed at say 200ppi, but he is a printing expert. Some day I will take his course to understand. I guess I could also edit on my 5k monitor vs my 2560 benq and see if I can spot the difference but I would have to print it to find out and I would rather just accept his informed opinion. Sometimes it pays to trust an expert.



Jan 31, 2023 at 01:12 PM
GiovanniAprea
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Hello,

interesting reading about screen size vs resolution, I am in the search of a decent monitor to replace my very cheap HP22" on an old MacMini which also will get replaced in the next few months, my aim is at the Benq 270c which, here in Italy, still sells in the 800 euros range and as such I am taking time to look for either option or better prices, no rush to buy now but I will have to sooner than later.

Benq has a refurbished store where I was tempted by a 4K 27" but after some reading and this long thread I convinced myself that 2K 27" is what I want to aim at even considering that a while ago I used to use an old iMac 27" whose res was 2K and got both plenty of space and not much zoom in and out to check details so since my desk is small and overpopulated and that finances are what they are (photography is a passion which once in a while brings in some $$$ but not enough to justify specific investments, at least not yet...), question being for those of you who own/use the 270C, is it still a good option for the money or is there some other manufacturer in the price range/quality which can compete?

Grazie



Feb 09, 2023 at 02:35 AM
davidl11
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


m1984 wrote:
Thanks, I just ordered the benq sw270c (1440p) online. Hope it will work for me.


I too just got the BenQ SW270C, yesterday in fact. YouTube videos by ArtisRight, a BenQ ambassador, were extremely helpful in setting up the monitor and, especially, in successfully using the BenQ software, Palette Master Element, for calibrating the monitor.




Feb 09, 2023 at 10:19 AM
m1984
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?



I tried the Benq SW270C but 1440p just didn`t work for me (anymore).
So I sent it back and ordered an Eizo CS2740.
The reason is that for me as an architectural photographer its just way easier to judge images on a high resolution monitor. On 4k/5k I can see all important details. For example when I edit interior images I can easily differ a dust spot from a smoke detector without zooming in. Not so on the 1440p.
Also I don`t care much about sharpening. I shoot every photo from a tripod with prime shift lenses, i know that my images are sharp, I do apply the same amount of sharpening for each photo and they come out fine in (offset)print. I`ve seen it a hundred times. Even if critical sharpening would be important to me I would rather place a second cheap 1080p 24“ monitor beside my 27“ 4k to exclusively use it for sharpening.




Feb 10, 2023 at 07:31 AM
strobeau
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


FYI, two other guys I don't consider "nobodies" have recommended against 4K and higher for editing — a few years ago, at least.

(1) www.squiver.com/blog/review-eizo-cg2730-monitor (2019)

(2) Andy Astbury somewhere on his YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/@AndyAstbury/videos

Also, some time ago I noticed sharpening edges were turning up more again, as if it was 2005. I suspect it's from people editing on 4K or higher who don't realize their edges are going to be very visible on the lower res monitors.



Apr 26, 2023 at 01:37 PM
Kaj E
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


I think that this whole discussion about monitor dpi (more or less) is mostly off the mark. It seems like people want to defend their choice.

First, let's consider images posted on the web (like here). People with high dpi monitors typically have set the browser (or system) to display at a larger magnification to make letters easily readable.

For print, you want to view your image at print size (for most people files at 300 ppi or 360 ppi dependent on the printer), particularly for sharpening, easily done in Photoshop. A larger dpi monitor will let you see more of or the whole image, even for larger prints.

Photoshop also lets you view the image at any magnification you want, no need to stay at 100%.

For correct perspective viewing images made with wide angle lenses, you want to view the image closer than the typical distances. For these types of images (for instance landscapes) you also often want to inspect details (view at a closer distance).

If you consider displayed image quality based on the above, a larger dpi is an advantage.

A lower dpi display gives you a faster response, for instance for gaming. Lower dpi monitors are also cheaper.



Apr 27, 2023 at 09:15 AM
static age
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


What are the general thoughts on the BenQ SW240? I’m looking for a 24” as my imac 27” 4k has been too big to be comfortable.


Apr 29, 2023 at 06:24 PM
bobby350z
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


I rarely feel the need for extra sharpening. If there was a nice 4:3 monitor, I would love to get it. So far 27 BenQ 2K and 32" BenQ 4k work fine for my needs.


Apr 30, 2023 at 11:27 AM
leethecam
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Here are my thoughts - worth what you paid for them...

I have an Eizo CG319X which is 31" and 4K. This gives a ppi almost exactly half of 300dpi, which is perfect for simulating print resolution. (Screen resolution needs only half the number as print needs an overlap of dots whereas screen don't).

I road tested several monitors from different manufacturers. Nothing came close to the Eizo.

Low IPS glow figures are essential when working at lower cd/m2 (I use the recommended 80cd/m2 for a dimmed environment). And the tonal reproduction in shadow areas is exceptional. (The NEC I tried failed miserably). Angle of view is as good as you good hope for and stability is beyond expectations. (It hardly drifts even after months of use). The built in calibrator is first class and compares nicely against my trusty i-1 DisplayPro, and the built in calibration system is much faster than anything else. Warm up is faster than any other monitor and with such a speedy calibration, there's no excuse not to calibrate for every project). Delta figures are excellent of course and as you'd expect it handles larger gamut ranges with ease. 10-bit of course. And it has multiple memories for different setups - so I have one set for my photography and two more for Rec-709 at gammas 2.2 and 2.4

Eizo were kind enough to actually bring a demo unit to my office for me to try. (Apparently the head of sales likes my work). When set to my usual 80cd/m2, the screen was like looking at a paper print. I'd never experienced anything like it. And comforting to know it imparted zero character - just accuracy. It took some persuading to let our Eizo chap take his monitor away whilst I waited for mine. I didn't want to go back to my old monitor - not even for a week.

Tech backup and after-service from Eizo is world class. In the UK, they're a phone call away and they're knowledgeable. No call centres, just direct to the office. And on the occasion where I had minor concerns about my monitor, a loaner arrived the next day and they picked up my monitor in-person. Return was in-person, even offering to let me keep the loaner for an extra couple of days - "just in case."

Yes there are cheaper monitors, and they pretty darn good. But a monitor is so much more than gamut range or resolution. And given that my 15 yr old Eizo CG211 is still performing as well as it did when new, I'm expecting a decade or two from my CG319X. It is an investment that has legs - worth considering when we budget.

So for me, the Eizo CG319X is about as perfect as it gets.



Apr 30, 2023 at 04:11 PM
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