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Archive 2023 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?

  
 
m1984
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


I`m looking for a new 27" monitor for my (hopefully soon arriving) mac mini m2 pro.
Since I work a lot in Adobe RGB (mainly when the images will get published in offset print) I`m looking for a wide gamut monitor.
Question is - since AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 are not that much different do you think it is still necessary to buy a (more expensive) RGB Monitor as a photographer? I mean color accuracy is important to me but I`m not a product photographer where color accuracy has to be on point 1000%.
What would you go for in my case: 27" 1440p full rgb monitor or a 4k 95% DCI-P3 monitor?




Jan 23, 2023 at 11:12 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


If it was me, and I do a lot of images as a retoucher/file prep/photographer, there's only one monitor worth looking at and that's the Eizo. An Eizo 27 inch at 2560x1440 is just about perfect resolution for that monitor size and they're surprisingly affordable particularly if you already have an i1Display Pro, but you can get them bundled with a Spyder 5 as well. Of course, the models with the built-in colorimeters are a bit more. Best monitors with the best service and support as well. No brainer.


Jan 23, 2023 at 11:42 AM
vallejo
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


BenQ SW270C Photographer 27" 16:9 HDR IPS Monitor.
I used a lot of monitors. Settled on this one and see no reason to change…



Jan 23, 2023 at 06:09 PM
Todd Warnke
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


I wouldn't do 4k on anything less than a 30-32" monitor. I have a 27" Eizo that is 2560 x 1440 and is perfect for the physical size. I tried the above referenced BenQ, and it's too small to get a menaingful use out of 4k. As for aRBG v P3, since aRBG leans more into the green and blue range, if your photography is based in nature, landscape and the outdoors, I'd stick with an aRGB monitor.


Jan 23, 2023 at 07:16 PM
vallejo
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


That one is a 27”…

Todd Warnke wrote:
I wouldn't do 4k on anything less than a 30-32" monitor. I have a 27" Eizo that is 2560 x 1440 and is perfect for the physical size. I tried the above referenced BenQ, and it's too small to get a menaingful use out of 4k. As for aRBG v P3, since aRBG leans more into the green and blue range, if your photography is based in nature, landscape and the outdoors, I'd stick with an aRGB monitor.




Jan 23, 2023 at 09:00 PM
Oscarsmadness
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


I moved from sRGB to P3 recently. All my clients use stuff digitally in either sRGB - P3 if they are fancy. And quite a few of them are fancy. If they print, they are making Christmas cards, brochures, posters, everything that is not color critical. I don't use aRGB because my clients do not or can not take advantage of it.

I use Dell Ultrasharp U2723QE. It's working very well for me. As much as I'd love to have an Eizo, I can't figure out how the Eizo will provide a product that my clients will appreciate more. Which is why I'm happy with Dell and the P3 space.

This is coming from someone who rarely does color critical printing. If you need to do color critical printing any more than occasionally, don't listen to me.



Jan 23, 2023 at 09:18 PM
m1984
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Thanks a lot, I think i will go for the mentioned BenQ SW270C as I already heard a lot of good things about it and its still in my price range.
Since i worked on an 5k 27" Imac the last years i will have to get used to 1440p, hopefully it will not be much of an issue.
I`m still not 100% sure if i "need" full rgb coverage but it won`t hurt either.



Jan 24, 2023 at 11:45 AM
eyal
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


I will disagree with monitor resolution (2k vs 4k). I purchased the Eizo CS2740 4k and my preferred resolution is 3008x(something - can't recall). I personally find 2560 font/screen elements too big and the native 4k too small. the 3008x is 'just right'

The one issue with use of a scaled resolution is that the Mac actually will output 2x that resolution so having multiple monitors in such a resolution can affect performance.



Jan 24, 2023 at 11:50 AM
m1984
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


My 5k Imac runs (pixel doubled) at a setting that looks like 2560x1440 by default. Thats the setting i actually use and it always worked fine for me.
The Benq SW270c runs native at 2560x1440 so everything should look the same size, just not as sharp/detailed.



Jan 24, 2023 at 01:45 PM
vallejo
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


2560 x 1440 really…

m1984 wrote:
Thanks a lot, I think i will go for the mentioned BenQ SW270C as I already heard a lot of good things about it and its still in my price range.
Since i worked on an 5k 27" Imac the last years i will have to get used to 1440p, hopefully it will not be much of an issue.
I`m still not 100% sure if i "need" full rgb coverage but it won`t hurt either.




Jan 24, 2023 at 03:51 PM
m1984
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


I just plugged in my old 23" NEC 1080p which I used for many years. The ppi / sharpness has to be only a bit less than 1440p on 27" right? To be honest, I`m not sure if i can go back to a ppi in that range.
Checking details at 100% is fine (maybe even better than on 4k/5k) but the whole workflow is very different.
Will have to zoom in and out of images a lot more. I guess i will borrow a 27" 1440p first before consider buying one...



Jan 24, 2023 at 04:47 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


m1984 wrote:
I just plugged in my old 23" NEC 1080p which I used for many years. The ppi / sharpness has to be only a bit less than 1440p on 27" right? To be honest, I`m not sure if i can go back to a ppi in that range.
Checking details at 100% is fine (maybe even better than on 4k/5k) but the whole workflow is very different.
Will have to zoom in and out of images a lot more. I guess i will borrow a 27" 1440p first before consider buying one...


The whole idea is that you want to have screen pixels that are small enough so you can just barely NOT see them with your eyes or with reading glasses from your normal viewing distance, but if your screen pixels are too small, like 4K on.a 24 inch screen (or 27) then you could easily miss critical detail when viewing at 100 percent because that fine fine detail is lost in those super fine pixels. You would have to zoom in to 200 or 300 percent. Higher resolution is not always the best solution. Optimal resolution, however, is.



Jan 24, 2023 at 05:37 PM
m1984
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Thanks, I just ordered the benq sw270c (1440p) online. Hope it will work for me.


Jan 25, 2023 at 04:19 AM
jhapeman
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Peter Figen wrote:
The whole idea is that you want to have screen pixels that are small enough so you can just barely NOT see them with your eyes or with reading glasses from your normal viewing distance, but if your screen pixels are too small, like 4K on.a 24 inch screen (or 27) then you could easily miss critical detail when viewing at 100 percent because that fine fine detail is lost in those super fine pixels. You would have to zoom in to 200 or 300 percent. Higher resolution is not always the best solution. Optimal resolution, however, is.


Care to explain the logic behind this, because I really don't follow this at all. I've only used high ppi monitors for the last decade precisely because it's *easier* to see critical sharpness when the pixel density is higher, and you can see more of the entire image on the screen.



Jan 25, 2023 at 10:10 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


jhapeman wrote:
Care to explain the logic behind this, because I really don't follow this at all. I've only used high ppi monitors for the last decade precisely because it's *easier* to see critical sharpness when the pixel density is higher, and you can see more of the entire image on the screen.


This is a good read. https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170107_1234-evaluating-images-pixel-density.html

Basically, because of your eyes IQ and the distance to the screen -- the best monitor is about 100dpi and for a 27" monitor that translates into 2560 x 1600. A 4k monitor results in > distance to view, and higher resolution than you can see. Otherwise you cannot see what sharpening / processing you are applying that will show up in print.



Jan 26, 2023 at 09:24 AM
sbay
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


jhapeman wrote:
Care to explain the logic behind this, because I really don't follow this at all. I've only used high ppi monitors for the last decade precisely because it's *easier* to see critical sharpness when the pixel density is higher, and you can see more of the entire image on the screen.


That is a good question. The conventional wisdom is certainly that it's easier to view critical sharpness on a low ppi (non-retina) screen but I've never seen any objective data for that. It's all anecdotal experience from individuals like the article on Diglloyd and even he is careful to make a long disclaimer and that his statements might not be universally true (everyone has different eyesight).

For me the ultimate test is a hard proof of the image. For most of my prints this is between 180-360 ppi. The lower end overlaps with the resolution for retina screens (around 220ppi). So it wouldn't surprise me if some people are better able to judge sharpness at that scale.



Jan 26, 2023 at 10:09 AM
jhapeman
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Scott Stoness wrote:
This is a good read. https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170107_1234-evaluating-images-pixel-density.html

Basically, because of your eyes IQ and the distance to the screen -- the best monitor is about 100dpi and for a 27" monitor that translates into 2560 x 1600. A 4k monitor results in > distance to view, and higher resolution than you can see. Otherwise you cannot see what sharpening / processing you are applying that will show up in print.


Right, so as I thought it's 100% his personal opinion. It's not based in any facts or a scientific analysis. So much depends on the size of the screen, your individual visual acuity and the distance at which you sit from your screen, whether your application or OS is doing any scaling/dithering vs. native output resolution. Personally I 100% disagree with this point; I find it vastly easier to assess critical sharpness at 100% with a high-DPI screen; you couldn't pay to go back to a lower resolution screen at this point.




Jan 26, 2023 at 11:33 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


It's not just based on opinion and conjecture. It's based on facts and actual numbers and how we see and perceive images. And one of the places I see it on a daily basis when shooting to a tethered laptop in the studio, tethering a Fuji GFX100s 100mp camera to Capture One on a 14 inch M1 MacBook Pro with the Retina screen. Because of the size of the screen pixels and our human inability to resolve that size natively (and if you can, kudos to you) you have to zoom the Capture One image to 200 percent in order to see all of the detail in the image. If the screen pixels were larger but just barely beyond our ability to resolve, the image would be larger on screen and you'd actually see more fine detail at 100 percent, not less, because that fine fine detail is being lost in your eye's inability to resolve it - y'know - until you zoom in to 200 percent.

Not unlike the fact that if you're sitting 15 feet across the room from your big screen tv, you cannot see the difference between 720P and 1080P or between 1080P and 4K until you're close enough to the screen to almost resolve the screen pixels with your own eyes.

You're being fooled into thinking the 4k display is sharper when it's just showing you smaller images. If you have an image with the actual detail and pixels are too small to resolve, you're going to be missing visible detail in your image that you can only see (like with the Retina MBP) by zooming to 200 percent or more.

It's all pretty simple really.



Jan 26, 2023 at 12:14 PM
Oscarsmadness
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Here's the point in one sentence: A lower ppi (lower rez display) can make pixel peeping easier because the pixels on your display are physically larger. People prefer larger sized pixels for the exact same reason people prefer large print books.

My personal experience:

I could not fix CA on a 5K iMac when I tried. And I tried. I had to view at 3:1 to catch everything, and it took me longer. And that wasn't the only thing. I missed a flyaway hair on multiple occasions, undersharpened all the time, messed up a panorama stitch, it was bad. Part of it was me not adjusting to the display and part of it was the display making things look "nicer" than what was actually there. I was making mistakes.

My favorite display size and resolution is 27 inches at 1440p. Everything is reasonably sharp during general office work, and I can pixel peep whatever I want at 1:1. Most of my editing is done at 1:2.

I upgraded to a 27 inch 4K display. Office work is simply lovely. It's so nice! I had to make some changes because of the resolution bump. I do need to pixel peep at 2:1. And all viewing and editing absolutely has to be done at 1:1. After adjusting my workflow for the higher resolution, I think the 4K is working well for me.

All things said, the reason the display's spec matters is because you need to know how that will affect your workflow.

No one cares what you use, certainly not your clients. Folks only care if you start making mistakes.



Jan 26, 2023 at 12:57 PM
jhapeman
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Wide Gamut Monitor, DCI-P3 or still Adobe RGB?


Peter Figen wrote:
It's not just based on opinion and conjecture. It's based on facts and actual numbers and how we see and perceive images. And one of the places I see it on a daily basis when shooting to a tethered laptop in the studio, tethering a Fuji GFX100s 100mp camera to Capture One on a 14 inch M1 MacBook Pro with the Retina screen. Because of the size of the screen pixels and our human inability to resolve that size natively (and if you can, kudos to you) you have to zoom the Capture One image to 200 percent in
...Show more

Except not really. I am fortunate and I have excellent vision and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I also prefer to see the entire image when culling, not only part of it, so the larger high-resolution screens are ideal for that function. As for zooming, of course that's required to do the final check but that is irrelevant of screen size and ppi; I personally cull bad compositions at full resolution and then zoom to 100% or 200% to check critical focus.

Not being able to see the difference between say 100-120 ppi and 218 ppi on an Apple Retina display is not the same as saying the extra resolution is not useful. The TV comparison is not really a valid one either, because they are completely different use cases. I'm not zooming to 100% and checking critical focus on a TV. I also think a lot of the confusion/difference of opinion on this topic is aggravated by differences in how people set things like display scaling, which will have an important effect, regardless of actual resolution and ppi and of course individual visual acuity.

Unless you are always culling images at 100%, pretty much every image is going to be resized in an application to fit in the window (Fit Image in Lightroom, for example). I personally use the Apple 32" ProDisplay XDR. It's 32" and 218ppi. When I view an image from my Sony A1 at full size it's only scaled down a tiny bit to fully fit on the screen. I can 100% tell how sharp it is at that size. The tiny difference between a very sharp image and absolute tack sharp is then very easy to see with a quick 100% zoom. Being able to see a larger portion of the image at 100% is also very useful for checking the plane of focus.

I think making a claim that the resolution is wasted is just too broad. Not everyone has the same use cases, eyesight, software, etc. In other words, your mileage may vary. Certainly if you don't have the visual acuity then it's not needed.



Jan 26, 2023 at 01:01 PM
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