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A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Daran
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

naturephoto1 wrote:
According to the test on Alpha Shooters, they found that the fastest UHS II micro SD cards were the Kingston Canvas React Plus UHS-II and that with these cards that the camera could write 30 fps in compressed RAW form for 150 shots before reaching the buffer.
Those 150 frames are hardly surprising since the A1 can keep 155 frames in it's internal buffer. So, yes, slow SD cards can be used for 30fps. Last time I filled all my fast cards on hand I also noticed the drawback: with my slowest & biggest SD card it took minutes (note the plural) to clear the buffer...

Jan 24, 2023 at 11:32 AM

aboutthelight
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Daran wrote:
Those 150 frames are hardly surprising since the A1 can keep 155 frames in it's internal buffer. So, yes, slow SD cards can be used for 30fps. Last time I filled all my fast cards on hand I also noticed the drawback: with my slowest & biggest SD card it took minutes (note the plural) to clear the buffer...

Yes this is exactly why I will not use the SD cards on the A1 anymore. Getting to the buffer is one thing, clearing the buffer is another. It takes longer and often that is the difference between getting a shot and losing it. I had it happen to me on a trip once. I went to a spot to shoot hummingbirds and had my 256gb card in camera because I figured I may take loads of pics. Well I had a few bursts of action/interaction moments between birds and held down the shutter. Problem came when the one and only Rufous Hummingbird came in to the flowers and started fighting with Broad-tailed. Well my buffer took to long to clear and the camera slowed down and I missed peak action while the buffer cleared. The SD V90 UHS-ii cards are awesome and much better value than the type A for all other shooting except peak action where you hold down the shutter.

Jan 24, 2023 at 11:40 AM

j4nu
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Jan 24, 2023 at 11:47 AM

Fboss
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

naturephoto1 wrote:
Actually you are incorrect. According to the test on Alpha Shooters, they found that the fastest UHS II micro SD cards were the Kingston Canvas React Plus UHS-II and that with these cards that the camera could write 30 fps in compressed RAW form for 150 shots before reaching the buffer.

https://www.alphashooters.com/cameras/a1/memory-cards/

Rich

I know you can also use V90 cards in the A1. What I meant was with CFexpress A you maximize the full A1's ability and can use 30fps without penalty (compared to A7RV with V90 that doesn't need ultra fast cards for a perfect shooting experience). I wouldn't consider an A1 without CFexpress cards, that's just me.

Jan 24, 2023 at 11:55 AM

dclark
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

The in-camera buffer is 127 frames. The number of frames before the buffer is full depends on how fast you are putting frames into the buffer and how fast the camera can move files from the buffer onto the memory card.
This post, A1 CFE-a, gives details and includes a link to a prior post that gives some measurements for UHS-II cards.

Dave

Jan 24, 2023 at 11:55 AM

1bwana1
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Fboss wrote:
I know you can also use V90 cards in the A1. What I meant was with CFexpress A you maximize the full A1's ability and can use 30fps without penalty (compared to A7RV with V90 that doesn't need ultra fast cards for a perfect shooting experience). I wouldn't consider an A1 without CFexpress cards, that's just me.

The A7RV uses the same card technology as the A1. It also allows you to use either CFexpress-A or SD V90 Cards. With either camera in order to acheive the maximum performance of the camera you should use the same CFexpress-A cards. But whichever card you put in your camera you will get higher performance from the A1 than you will from the A7RV.

To achieve the best performance offered by either camera you need the same cards. In fact, you will get better performance with an A1 using SD V90 cards, than you will with the A7RV using CFexpress-A cards, for a less expensive per performance card cost. So, your claim is a false economy. No savings in that regard.

Jan 24, 2023 at 12:40 PM

GMPhotography
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

I use 2 Pro Grade 160 CF cards in my A7RV. 1 Prograde 160 and a V90 in my A7IV. Ready for bear.

Both cams I write Raws to both cards. Killed the jpegs . Don’t use them anyway

Jan 24, 2023 at 03:25 PM

1bwana1
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

GMPhotography wrote:
I use 2 Pro Grade 160 CF cards in my A7RV. 1 Prograde 160 and a V90 in my A7IV. Ready for bear.

Both cams I write Raws to both cards. Killed the jpegs . Don’t use them anyway

I have a pair of CFExpress-A cards for my A1 which I save for only the most extreme use cases. The vast majority of time I am using SD V90 cards and suffer no ill effects except longer time to download my files to my computer. Truth be told, I have never filled the buffer either way. I guess I am a stingy shooter.

Jan 24, 2023 at 04:08 PM

Fboss
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

1bwana1 wrote:
In fact, you will get better performance with an A1 using SD V90 cards, than you will with the A7RV using CFexpress-A cards, for a less expensive per performance card cost. So, your claim is a false economy. No savings in that regard.

I don't undertand the logic and what "performance" means in this context. But I don't think the A1 writes faster in a V90 card than the A7RV using a CFexpress-A.

Jan 24, 2023 at 05:00 PM

tctmp
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Fboss wrote:
I don't undertand the logic and what "performance" means in this context. But I don't think the A1 writes faster in a V90 card than the A7RV using a CFexpress-A.

He means fps and number of shots before stalling, if i'm not mistaken.

Jan 24, 2023 at 05:17 PM

Dr Al
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

As a duck hunter for many years I see the whole argument over silent vs mechanical very differently. I've launched boats at accesses and had ducks that were fed by the locals come right up to us. I have a wild turkey that feeds on the seed dropped from the feeder that will follow me around like a pet hoping I spill seeds while filling the feeders. But when out in the wild both sounds and motion will spook animals.
Sure a bobcat at a golf course is going to not be bothered by humans, it's what they are use to.

I've seen ducks flare away simply because of a noise deep inside a blind 100 yards away. Yes, people have been shooting BIF (if that's your thing) for a very long time. Back in the day it took an expert with a little luck. But with each generation of camera it has allowed people who may not be as skilled to get shots they other wise would never get.

As for the OP, a used A1 for about the same price as a new A7RV? I can't answer that. But if action/ BIF is just something you dabble in then the 5 would most likely make for a great camera. Otherwise the A1 is probably the camera you want. I've already made up my mind. I'm not going to upgrade my A7RIVa for a V or A1. I'll wait for the A1ii (or what ever they call it). I expect it'll cost $7k (or more) but it'll do pretty much everything the A1 and the A7V can do plus stuff neither can. It'll most likely be the last body I buy.

Jan 24, 2023 at 07:09 PM

1bwana1
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

tctmp wrote:
He means fps and number of shots before stalling, if i'm not mistaken.

Exactly, as that is what really matters in this discussion.

Jan 24, 2023 at 07:33 PM

chez
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Dr Al wrote:
As a duck hunter for many years I see the whole argument over silent vs mechanical very differently. I've launched boats at accesses and had ducks that were fed by the locals come right up to us. I have a wild turkey that feeds on the seed dropped from the feeder that will follow me around like a pet hoping I spill seeds while filling the feeders. But when out in the wild both sounds and motion will spook animals.
Sure a bobcat at a golf course is going to not be bothered by humans, it's what they...Show more →

But isn’t the concept of shooting BIF…the bird is already flying so the mechanical shutter won’t really scare them? And if the bird is perched, you can switch to silent shutter as the bird is not moving very fast.

I actually do a lot of hiking and can definitely say animals of all types are much more sensitive to motion than sound. Many use smell as their primary sensory detection as well.

Jan 24, 2023 at 08:05 PM

Photosection
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Why are Sony insisting on limiting their 7 series cameras electronic shutters to 1/8000th though. Just the simple task of shooting a very fast lens wide-open like the 50GM/1.2 (for visual effect) becomes problematic on a 7 series body on say a sunny beach (think fashion).

Jan 24, 2023 at 08:12 PM

GMPhotography
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

I’m more after download speed than worrying about hitting buffer. CF cards are nice and fast. In truth I like the construction of them as well. Just seem more durable not sure if it really is just like them better over SD cards. But it’s not exactly cheap either , I’m over a grand in cards alone.

Jan 24, 2023 at 08:18 PM

Donzo98
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Jan 24, 2023 at 09:16 PM

dclark
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Photosection wrote:
Why are Sony insisting on limiting their 7 series cameras electronic shutters to 1/8000th though. Just the simple task of shooting a very fast lens wide-open like the 50GM/1.2 (for visual effect) becomes problematic on a 7 series body on say a sunny beach (think fashion).

The reason for the limitation may be that the width of the exposure slit between the first curtain and second curtain gets to be too narrow. The A7R4 (and presumably the A7R5) second electronic curtain can traverse the sensor in about 108 msec = 1/9.25 sec (see page 1 and 4 of this thread, https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1663827/0). Since the cameras have ~6336 rows that means the shutter moves at a rate of ~58,600 rows/sec. So for a shutter speed of 1/8000 sec the number of rows between the first and second curtain is about 7 rows. For the A1, the second electronic curtain traverses the sensor in about 1/237 sec. There are 5760 rows, so that is 1,343,790 rows/sec. The fastest shutter is 1/32000 sec, which means the width of the shutter slit is about 42 rows. The A1 reads out rows in groups of 12, so I assume it is actually 48 with the first and second curtain steps offset by half the step interval.

7 rows is a pretty narrow shutter slit, so any slight timing variation will cause exposure variation. My guess is Sony does not want to run a narrower shutter slit.

Edited on Jan 25, 2023 at 10:35 AM · View previous versions

Jan 25, 2023 at 01:04 AM

mogul
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Except for Turkey vultures, birds have no sense of smell.

Jan 25, 2023 at 06:12 AM

Photosection
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Thanks for the link Dave, do you know if Fuji suffer from this too? Has this electronic shutter issue ever been noticed on the A1, if not, that for my money is the main reason I'd opt for the A1, and the faster flash sync speed.

Jan 25, 2023 at 06:54 AM

1bwana1
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

chez wrote:
I actually do a lot of hiking and can definitely say animals of all types are much more sensitive to motion than sound. Many use smell as their primary sensory detection as well.

Just try stalking an animal, almost any animal, concealed and from down wind, step on a twig and the noise will ruin your stalk as the animal bolts away. Why do you think they have such big ears, and the muscles to turn them directionally. I have found this to be true in all environments.

Jan 25, 2023 at 10:21 AM

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