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Archive 2023 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

  
 
Fboss
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


jhapeman wrote:
For the type of shooting you describe the A7RV is perfect, and will seem like a huge upgrade. Just use the mechanical shutter for any kind of fast action.

I agree.
The A7RV is a very responsive camera overall, very enjoyable to use. A significant upgrade for me, from the A7RIII that I used for ~ 4 years. Just assign a button for ES/MS, and use MS for fast actions. Wildlife, landscapes, macro (focus bracketing), street photo, portraits, etc. It does everything very well.
Jan 23, 2023 at 08:17 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


aboutthelight wrote:
If your main goal is BIF then I would get the A1 without hesitation. You can shoot at 20 FPS full raw or 30 FPS with compressed raw. With the A7RV you are getting 7 with electronic shutter and 10 with mechanical. So best case you are getting half of the photos that you would get with the A1. Worst case you are getting 1/3 of the photos. With BIF shooting split second differences can make or break the shot. Often times in a burst there is one shot with the wing position I am after or sometimes none. I...Show more →


I am with you on the many advantages of stacked sensors and electronic shutters. Not just for BIF which I rarely do. Except for my manual Leica M cameras which I shoot for other experience based photography, I am done with non stacked sensor cameras going forward.

That doesn't change the discussion I had about the capabilities of the A7RV in this thread.


Edited on Jan 23, 2023 at 08:30 PM · View previous versions
Jan 23, 2023 at 08:19 PM
chez
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors




Fboss wrote:
I agree.
The A7RV is a very responsive camera overall, very enjoyable to use. A significant upgrade for me, from the A7RIII that I used for ~ 4 years. Just assign a button for ES/MS, and use MS for fast actions. Wildlife, landscapes, macro (focus bracketing), street photo, portraits, etc. It does everything very well.

Let’s also not forget there is a $2600 price difference between the A1 and A7R5…that could get you some fine glass.

Except for a few extreme situations, both cameras can get you great images…one just needs to know how to get those great images.😲
Jan 23, 2023 at 08:26 PM
aboutthelight
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


chez wrote:
Let’s also not forget there is a $2600 price difference between the A1 and A7R5…that could get you some fine glass.

Except for a few extreme situations, both cameras can get you great images…one just needs to know how to get those great images.😲

Sorry this is simply not true. In every situation the A7R5 has a distinct disadvantage as it is way way slower. If you are looking for a full banking BIF shot or a wings fully extended shot the chances of capturing the peak action are greatly increased if you are able to get more frames per second. Many people shoot the A1 at 30FPs for flight shots. So if someone used the A7rv with the electronic shutter then they are getting less than 25% of the images that someone shooting an A1 can get. This is not an extreme situation. This is every situation. Every time you shoot with the A1 you have greatly increased your odds of capturing peak action. Of course with enough opportunities you can get a photo with any camera. Often with BIF the peak action is a fraction of a second. And very often you only get one chance. I would never ever recommend having 7 shots in a second when you can have 20 or 30.


Jan 23, 2023 at 08:39 PM
chez
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors




aboutthelight wrote:
Sorry this is simply not true. In every situation the A7R5 has a distinct disadvantage as it is way way slower. If you are looking for a full banking BIF shot or a wings fully extended shot the chances of capturing the peak action are greatly increased if you are able to get more frames per second. Many people shoot the A1 at 30FPs for flight shots. So if someone used the A7rv with the electronic shutter then they are getting less than 25% of the images that someone shooting an A1 can get. This is not an extreme situation....Show more →

I’ve looked through a lot of images posted in the nature board here and I see very few that benefit 30fps shooting.

If fps is the be all to end all, then I suggest you take a look at Olympus as they put the A1 to shame.
Jan 23, 2023 at 08:51 PM
Douglas L
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


chez wrote:
I’ve looked through a lot of images posted in the nature board here and I see very few that benefit 30fps shooting.

If fps is the be all to end all, then I suggest you take a look at Olympus as they put the A1 to shame.

High frame rate does increase the odd of getting certain shots. One of the very rare occasions I shoot 30 FPS is for opposing passes like these, which I posted in another thread when someone said all you need is 7 or 8 FPS. All things equal, my odds of getting these type of shots is 200% higher than shooting 10 FPS. It's not the end of it all, it just makes things easier, regardless one's skill.




  ILCE-1    FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS lens    376mm    f/6.3    1/4000s    200 ISO    -1.0 EV  






  ILCE-1    FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS lens    512mm    f/6.3    1/5000s    500 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-1    FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS lens    489mm    f/6.3    1/5000s    500 ISO    -0.3 EV  
Jan 23, 2023 at 09:01 PM
aboutthelight
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors




chez wrote:
I’ve looked through a lot of images posted in the nature board here and I see very few that benefit 30fps shooting.

If fps is the be all to end all, then I suggest you take a look at Olympus as they put the A1 to shame.

OP didn’t ask about Olympus so whatever you think about them is irrelevant.

As expected I find your statement re added fps simply false. Are you telling me that if you had a one chance to get a shot, one chance to capture peak action that you would pick a much slower camera


Jan 23, 2023 at 09:05 PM
chez
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors




aboutthelight wrote:
OP didn’t ask about Olympus so whatever you think about them is irrelevant.

As expected I find your statement re added fps simply false. Are you telling me that if you had a one chance to get a shot, one chance to capture peak action that you would pick a much slower camera

Yeh, I would pick the slower and $2600 cheaper camera since I and more importantly the OP shoots all sorts of other subjects, all of which can be handled with the A7R5…so I guess the extra $2600 to maybe get that shot is questionable at least and a total waste of money if BIF is not one’s life.
Jan 23, 2023 at 09:20 PM
chez
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors



Douglas L wrote:
High frame rate does increase the odd of getting certain shots. One of the very rare occasions I shoot 30 FPS is for opposing passes like these, which I posted in another thread when someone said all you need is 7 or 8 FPS. All things equal, my odds of getting these type of shots is 200% higher than shooting 10 FPS. It's not the end of it all, it just makes things easier, regardless one's skill.

Right…I did say there were extreme cases, but vast majority of images do not need 30fps. In fact I’ve heard many times on these boards that people don’t shoot their A1 at 30fps…many down size to a much slower rate.

Going back and looking at your images, ( all great ) with the first image bang on capture, but the 2nd and 3rd are a bit late as the nose tips have already passed by. So even 30fps does not guarantee the exact optimum image.
Jan 23, 2023 at 09:23 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


Better to have the high FPS capability in times you don't need it and don't turn it on, then not have that capability in times when you do.
Jan 23, 2023 at 09:38 PM
chez
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors




1bwana1 wrote:
Better to have the high FPS capability in times you don't need it and don't turn it on, then not have that capability in times when you do.

Right, but you pay for that 30fps…$2600, and if you don’t make use of it, kind of a waste.

From what the OP appears to shoot, I’d recommend the A7R5 or even the A7R4 and put the extra money towards more glass. You can still shoot BIF with the R5 and you can definitely shoot everything else the OP wants with the R5…I’d say even better in situations.
Jan 23, 2023 at 09:47 PM
Douglas L
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


chez wrote:
Right…I did say there were extreme cases, but vast majority of images do not need 30fps. In fact I’ve heard many times on these boards that people don’t shoot their A1 at 30fps…many down size to a much slower rate.

Going back and looking at your images, ( all great ) with the first image bang on capture, but the 2nd and 3rd are a bit late as the nose tips have already passed by. So even 30fps does not guarantee the exact optimum image.

Thanks Chez. For BIF I shoot 20 FPS usually, even at 30 FPS I haven't had the luck of capturing the exact moment of an osprey's talons touching the water. I haven't shot osprey much though. You made good points on the last two shots missing a bit. If I couldn't get it exactly right even at 30 FPS, what are the odds of me getting it right at 10 FPS? The point is, all things equal, higher FPS increases the odds of getting the shots you are after in some situations. The OP's question is A7RV vs stacked sensor for BIF, sure the A7RV can be used for BIF, and may excel in it too, it sure beats the older generations of DSLRs and mirrorless. But strictly BIF speaking, A1 is still the king. If BIF is not a priority, then there is no need to waste the money. If I shot 80% landscape, portraits, 20% BIF, I would pick the A7RV myself. The A7RV is a Mercedes S Class, the A1 is a Ferrari, first world problem.


Jan 23, 2023 at 09:47 PM
aboutthelight
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors




chez wrote:
Right, but you pay for that 30fps…$2600, and if you don’t make use of it, kind of a waste.

From what the OP appears to shoot, I’d recommend the A7R5 or even the A7R4 and put the extra money towards more glass. You can still shoot BIF with the R5 and you can definitely shoot everything else the OP wants with the R5…I’d say even better in situations.

Do you shoot any BIF? If so with what camera and lens? And have any examples you can point us to? Do you have first hand experience with the A1 or R5 for BIF? If so what species? I just think these threads are over run with people who love to talk about stuff but don’t actually know enough about what they are talking about. I’d love to be wrong about this topic but man do I have little hope.


Jan 23, 2023 at 10:57 PM
Donzo98
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


chez wrote:
Yeh, I would pick the slower and $2600 cheaper camera since I and more importantly the OP shoots all sorts of other subjects, all of which can be handled with the A7R5…so I guess the extra $2600 to maybe get that shot is questionable at least and a total waste of money if BIF is not one’s life.

The 2600.00 is also simply wrong…. a used LNIB A1 is currently selling for 45-4700.00. The R5 is 34-3600.00.

Have you looked at Isaac’s @aboutthelight images?? They are insanely good. He sent me a few recently, and I’m blown away.

Your argument is ridiculous honestly. Of course higher FPS, and ES is better.

I would never have the patience to shoot birds like many of you, but I respect the skill it takes.

For birds… how can you even debate how useful the A1’s features are? For many subjects… the R5 is perfect.

I’ve seen this same attitude in my career as a neurosurgeon as well. The newest tech comes out…and the old school guys say… “We don’t need this, we’ve done without it for years.” Yeah… well the newer tech makes things easier and better. Just the way it is.

Of course you can get the the shot with lesser tech… but you don’t have to!!!
Jan 23, 2023 at 11:00 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors



chez wrote:
Right, but you pay for that 30fps…$2600, and if you don’t make use of it, kind of a waste.

From what the OP appears to shoot, I’d recommend the A7R5 or even the A7R4 and put the extra money towards more glass. You can still shoot BIF with the R5 and you can definitely shoot everything else the OP wants with the R5…I’d say even better in situations.


Honestly Chez I think you way overestimate how important the money is to many people. It is not a great deal of money in today's World. Less than the cost of a single trip to many places to shoot birds.

The cost difference is easily known even by new photographers. They can easily decide this issue for themselves with little guidance. The impact of different camera specifications on capabilities in specific circumstances is more difficult to understand and worthy of detailed discussions in forums such as this.

Money, not so much...
Jan 23, 2023 at 11:39 PM
Fboss
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


chez wrote:
Right, but you pay for that 30fps…$2600, and if you don’t make use of it, kind of a waste.

From what the OP appears to shoot, I’d recommend the A7R5 or even the A7R4 and put the extra money towards more glass. You can still shoot BIF with the R5 and you can definitely shoot everything else the OP wants with the R5…I’d say even better in situations.

On top of that you need expensive CFexpress A cards (and a reader) to use 30fps. This adds up quickly.
The A7RV handles the buffers very well with SDXC V90 cards.
Jan 24, 2023 at 10:28 AM
Douglas L
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


Fboss wrote:
On top of that you need expensive CFexpress A cards (and a reader) to use 30fps. This adds up quickly.
The A7RV handles the buffers very well with SDXC V90 cards.

I don't think you have to use Type card to shoot 30 FPS, but 30 FPS or even 20 FPS will fill up the buffer really quickly, Type A cards clears very fast so if one shoots at high FPS for more than 5 seconds often, then Type A card helps clear the buffer much faster.
Jan 24, 2023 at 10:37 AM
naturephoto1
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


Fboss wrote:
On top of that you need expensive CFexpress A cards (and a reader) to use 30fps. This adds up quickly.
The A7RV handles the buffers very well with SDXC V90 cards.

Actually you are incorrect. According to the test on Alpha Shooters, they found that the fastest UHS II micro SD cards were the Kingston Canvas React Plus UHS-II and that with these cards that the camera could write 30 fps in compressed RAW form for 150 shots before reaching the buffer.

https://www.alphashooters.com/cameras/a1/memory-cards/

Rich
Jan 24, 2023 at 10:42 AM
1bwana1
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors




Fboss wrote:
On top of that you need expensive CFexpress A cards (and a reader) to use 30fps. This adds up quickly.
The A7RV handles the buffers very well with SDXC V90 cards.

Nope I have shot a good deal of 20 and 30 fps on v90 SD cards.
Jan 24, 2023 at 10:55 AM
j4nu
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors


naturephoto1 wrote:
Actually you are incorrect. According to the test on Alpha Shooters, they found that the fastest UHS II micro SD cards were the Kingston Canvas React Plus UHS-II and that with these cards that the camera could write 30 fps in compressed RAW form for 150 shots before reaching the buffer.

https://www.alphashooters.com/cameras/a1/memory-cards/

Rich


Whaaaat? I use those Canvas cards as they are dirt cheap compared to Sonys ...
Jan 24, 2023 at 11:20 AM
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