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A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

dcisive
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

This cracks me up how some electronic shutter fanatics will rise up and attack anything that isnt' useing their precious new shutter tech. How do you think, over the last 25 years, photographers have captured amazing images of birds in flight? Hmmm yeah with poor old mechanical shutters. They have however come a LONG way and on the A7R5 it needs NO apologies. Proper adjustments of shutter speeds and some talent do a long way. The focus tracking alone on the A7R5 allows me and many others to just set up your focus system properly, and away a bird taking off or in flight and it nails them. Even with ONE measly shot, NOT burst mode or spraying and praying. So get over it. In the right hands a A7R5 is perfectly capable of flying bird flights with a minimum of fuss.

Jan 22, 2023 at 05:24 PM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Not a damn thing I can’t do with a mechanical shutter for the last 50 years. I agree

You may hear me though. Lol

Seriously this stuff is over the top. It’s not a religion it’s only a tool

Jan 22, 2023 at 08:19 PM

dclark
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

dcisive wrote:
.... some electronic shutter fanatics will rise up and attack anything that isnt' useing their precious new shutter tech.......
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GMPhotography wrote:
......Seriously this stuff is over the top......

Which posts are you referring to?

Jan 22, 2023 at 08:57 PM

dcisive
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

nobody23 wrote:
BIF with an A7rV results very likely in bended wings due to read out speed...

Referring to this BS because we ALL know using a A7R5 for such use would require MS not ES. And there would NOT be any deformation of wings.

Jan 22, 2023 at 10:06 PM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

That’s one for sure. You’re shooting a bird with a 600mm do actually think the damn thing can hear your shutter. It’s not a freaking canon going off . It’s getting silly no one had electronic shutters up until a few years ago so no BIF existed before that. Does anyone actually go shoot anymore. Let’s clear the air don’t shoot hummingbirds period. Case solved

I literally walked up to a bobcat the size of an Irish setter on the golf course today 10 ft. These animals know who the hell we are. It’s no secret we are there

Jan 22, 2023 at 10:31 PM

billsnature
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

I have both A1 and A7R V. Both great cameras. If I could own only one, it would be A1. I might feel differently if I owned the 600mm f4 GM, but owning only the 100-400 and 200-600 the performance of the A1 especially with 1.4X is just better.

Jan 22, 2023 at 11:28 PM

dclark
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

dcisive wrote:
Referring to this BS because we ALL know using a A7R5 for such use would require MS not ES. And there would NOT be any deformation of wings.

@nobody23's comment was in error and was quickly and politely corrected by three posts. It seems unlikely that @nobody23 is "some electronic shutter fanatic" who will "rise up and attack anything that isnt' useing their precious new shutter tech" since nobody23's profile shows they are using an A7R4.
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GMPhotography wrote:
That’s one for sure. You’re shooting a bird with a 600mm do actually think the damn thing can hear your shutter. It’s not a freaking canon going off . It’s getting silly no one had electronic shutters up until a few years ago so no BIF existed before that. Does anyone actually go shoot anymore. Let’s clear the air don’t shoot hummingbirds period. Case solved

I literally walked up to a bobcat the size of an Irish setter on the golf course today 10 ft. These animals know who the hell we are. It’s no secret we are there

I assume your comment about shutter noise scaring birds refers to @wordfool's comment "I wouldn't have thought a stacked sensor is necessary for BiF, unless those birds are very sensitive to noise (like hummingbirds at fairly close range perhaps). After all, people have been taking BiF photos for decades with mechanical shutters." That's "over the top"?

The only other post I see that references shutter noise is p.1 #13, who says "I like the silence but not always needed." and "I just might not be silent doing it". Other than that I see no posts about shutter noise.

Jan 22, 2023 at 11:48 PM

Isaacheus
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

billsnature wrote:
I have both A1 and A7R V. Both great cameras. If I could own only one, it would be A1. I might feel differently if I owned the 600mm f4 GM, but owning only the 100-400 and 200-600 the performance of the A1 especially with 1.4X is just better.

Do you find the a1 faster in operation outside of bif or are they fairly comparable there?

And taking the birding side out of the equation, would you still recommend the a1 or are there advantages for other things in the a7rv?

Thanks

Jan 23, 2023 at 01:55 AM

nobody23
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

@nobody23@'s comment was in error and was quickly and politely corrected by three posts. It seems unlikely that @nobody23@ is "some electronic shutter fanatic" who will "rise up and attack anything that isnt' useing their precious new shutter tech" since nobody23's profile shows they are using an A7R4.

Had an A7r4 and used it for Bird of Paradise and those are noticing shutter sounds...
So Im using e-shutter as the preffered way of shooting.
Only exception would be, when the birds are performing for a female, then they dont care.
However, I sold the A7r4 and got an A1 and difference is noticeable for BIF...
If you can afford, go with an A1...

Jan 23, 2023 at 02:52 AM

tsdevine
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

The a7R V will run circles around your a7R III, FWIW. The camera is super snappy in operation, has an improved IBIS over any other Sony camera, has a beautiful EVF (so does the a1), the new LCD which is super flexible, the AI based AF works really well, has true bulb mode, focus stacking...I'm sure I'm missing a few things.

But the a1 stacked sensor is like crack. For me though, I rarely felt I needed that feature based on what I shoot. But if you absolutely must have that, then it's the way to go. It does offer advantages, for me though the other features of the a7R V mapped better to my uses. The BiF example is a scenario where the a1 shines, and the a1 II will be killer once it picks up the AI features of the a7R V.

BTW, here's the right 70% of the frame of a 240 MP 16 shot pixel shift. Truly amazing.

Pixel Shift

It really comes down to which features fit well for what you shoot, both are great cameras.

Isaacheus wrote:
Do you find the a1 faster in operation outside of bif or are they fairly comparable there?

And taking the birding side out of the equation, would you still recommend the a1 or are there advantages for other things in the a7rv?

Thanks

Edited on Jan 23, 2023 at 09:11 AM · View previous versions

Jan 23, 2023 at 07:31 AM

tsdevine
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Congrats on picking up the a7R V Bill!

billsnature wrote:
I have both A1 and A7R V. Both great cameras. If I could own only one, it would be A1. I might feel differently if I owned the 600mm f4 GM, but owning only the 100-400 and 200-600 the performance of the A1 especially with 1.4X is just better.

Jan 23, 2023 at 07:44 AM

tuomkok
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

dcisive wrote:
This cracks me up how some electronic shutter fanatics will rise up and attack anything that isnt' useing their precious new shutter tech. How do you think, over the last 25 years, photographers have captured amazing images of birds in flight? Hmmm yeah with poor old mechanical shutters. They have however come a LONG way and on the A7R5 it needs NO apologies. Proper adjustments of shutter speeds and some talent do a long way. The focus tracking alone on the A7R5 allows me and many others to just set up your focus system properly, and away a bird taking...Show more →

Amazing BIF shots have also been captured with less resolution and image quality compared to A7r5, not to mention how much af has improved during the years. Following your logic something like A7iii or a7r3 would be perfectly adequate

My current action camera is A9 and I am hooked to benefits of usable electronic shutter. I use A9 also for journalistic work and documentary. Black out free EVF is a major usability improvement. Silent shooting is another. Last weekend I shot a couple of bird shots with A7r3, but my propable camera upgrade path is towards A1 or the forthcoming A9iii.

Jan 23, 2023 at 08:21 AM

jhapeman
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

For the type of shooting you describe the A7RV is perfect, and will seem like a huge upgrade. Just use the mechanical shutter for any kind of fast action.

Jan 23, 2023 at 09:05 AM

Daran
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

GMPhotography wrote:
That’s one for sure. You’re shooting a bird with a 600mm do actually think the damn thing can hear your shutter. It’s not a freaking canon going off . It’s getting silly no one had electronic shutters up until a few years ago so no BIF existed before that. Does anyone actually go shoot anymore. Let’s clear the air don’t shoot hummingbirds period. Case solved
So you never shoot small birds that aren't used to humans. Which is perfectly fine, of course. Not sure why you need to have an opinion, though. It should be obvious that a typical shutter at 5-15m distance and away from street noise is more than just audible even for us near deaf humans. The birds do hear that, full stop. Whether they care is a different question and varies a lot, but the more skittish sort will simply be gone.

Jan 23, 2023 at 09:52 AM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

jhapeman wrote:
For the type of shooting you describe the A7RV is perfect, and will seem like a huge upgrade. Just use the mechanical shutter for any kind of fast action.

Totally agree and that's exactly what I am doing after 2 months of this silly topic of what the A7RV e-shutter is not and not what this camera is really about. Very few topics on what it has and what it can do. There are a lot of nice features that can help us as shooters . Im enjoying it and so far it has exceeded my expectations. I seriously thought the floppy screen was a gimmick but turns out a huge asset for me when shooting long periods of time in vertical off a monopod. Huge benefit for me. Lots of other great features as well. Im not going over it all but it certainly has value in the Sony lineup

Jan 23, 2023 at 09:54 AM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Daran wrote:
So you never shoot small birds that aren't used to humans. Which is perfectly fine, of course. Not sure why you need to have an opinion, though. It should be obvious that a typical shutter at 5-15m distance and away from street noise is more than just audible even for us near deaf humans. The birds do hear that, full stop. Whether they care is a different question and varies a lot, but the more skittish sort will simply be gone.

Seriously I don't shoot birds very often but I never scared them off either with noise and if I cant have an opinion here then I will just leave, I don't need the help . Animals of almost all type are used to us humans unfortunately we probably bug the crap out of them. Unless its a very rare animal than we are part of the environment just like noise is. Point being we shot birds for decades with mechanical shutters what changed that we now have to have a e-shutter , honestly nothing. Just you being there is enough. Yes on a technical level we can have issues with slow readouts than just switch, where is the problem these shutters are not that loud. I work on a golf course I have many many breeds of animals and birds around all day long. They barely move when I pull up in a noisy golf cart . Yesterday alone 7 Mule deer, 2 Bob cats within 10 ft. More hawks , rabbits, cactus wren, Dove and Quail that I could ever count not to mention rattle snakes . The only things that move are rabbits and I had my share of Mountain Lions. Im not going near those bad boys ever. But one resides off the 6 green in a tree. He wonders a lot but he knows who the heck we are we just stay away. But these animals know we are around. BTW I love these animals but I leave them alone in whatever environment they are in. Hopefully they will leave me alone as well , some are very dangerous.

Jan 23, 2023 at 10:17 AM

Douglas L
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

GMPhotography wrote:
Seriously I don't shoot birds very often but I never scared them off either with noise and if I cant have an opinion here then I will just leave, I don't need the help . Animals of almost all type are used to us humans unfortunately we probably bug the crap out of them. Unless its a very rare animal than we are part of the environment just like noise is. Point being we shot birds for decades with mechanical shutters what changed that we now have to have a e-shutter , honestly nothing. Just you being there is enough....Show more →

Guy, given you have these kind of encounters daily, you should shoot some wildlife even though they don't pay!

Jan 23, 2023 at 10:35 AM

chez
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Speaking of hummingbirds, when I used to have feeders, they got so tame I could put my fingers out next to the feeder and the birds would land on my finger as they drank the nectar. First thing in the morning if I don’t fill their feeders the hummers would fly right up to me and bug me until I fill their feeders.

I highly doubt any noise I make would have scared them off.

Jan 23, 2023 at 10:43 AM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

Douglas L wrote:
Guy, given you have these kind of encounters daily, you should shoot some wildlife even though they don't pay!

I know I could have had an amazing shot of that Bob Cat yesterday. I was 10 ft away and these guys just don't move away that easily. They almost come up to golfers. They are not aggressive at all although I would not try to pet the dang thing. Gotta bring my 70-200 to work. They are so funny to watch go after a rabbit they lay flat on their belly than when they are ready to strike their ears start twitching. It's a hoot to watch. When I do go to work there I typically ride the whole course before any players start, first to make sure the course is okay but it's like a zen moment for me. Stress relief.

I need to shoot this stuff.

I need to buy a TC 1.4 anyway so I will get one soon here.

Jan 23, 2023 at 11:20 AM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · A7rV for BIF? More recent af vs stacked sensors

BTW sorry if I sounded grumpy the dang e shutter stuff has gotten annoying lately it's like the only thing this cam is about. Its not

Chez I read your post , I think it's time to get it. I think it will really help you over the A7RIII the damn focus is lighting fast

Jan 23, 2023 at 11:27 AM

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