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Archive 2023 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?

  
 
RustyBug
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


gdanmitchell wrote:
RustyBug wrote:
PC platform?

I don't disagree that you can get there from either side, having been on the PC side for a long time, and recently finding the Mac to my appeal. So, rather than debate the "which is better", the question can be shifted to "what's to gain for the switch".

I'm biased in that I have decades on the Mac side — though I've also used PCs and taught in labs that had both. But my point is that — obviously, just look around — that photographers can do everything they need to do on whichever platform they find themselves
...Show more

It sure is. We see the same pointless, endless arguments about My Camera Is The Very Best Camera and You Are a Cretin If You Don't Agree. Meanwhile, there are excellent photographers using every one of these brands to make outstanding photography, and you cannot tell which brand was used when you look at their work.

Occasion, rare "switching" or adding an additional system can make sense in some cases, but for the most part folks are better of sticking with what they have, resisting the siren song of "switching," and focusing on photography rather than cameras.

jhapeman wrote:
There was a fairly large study done on this about ten years ago, I believe it was actually IBM Consulting of all organizations that did it, and the data was pretty unequivocal--Macs had a longer-term lower TCO for corporations that were able to use them, in large part due to lower support costs.

At my last corporate job we sold very highly-specialized software designed for mathematical analysis of risk in financial portfolios. It was 100% PC-only, however, I implemented an open standards policy at work as many of the developers and others wanted to use Macs. Just as you pointed
...Show more

Given the ten-years-ago time frame of that study, I think that it came up in some of our discussions at the time, too.

There are some issues in this world where zealotry is perhaps a good thing. But those things aren't operating systems or computer brands. ;-)
...Show more

If you like using a tool (camera, lens, computer, wrench, pen, sewing machine, knife, chisel, etc) ... use the snot out of it.
If you don't like using it ... find something else that you do like using.
Then, use the snot out of that.

Which is why I'm hesitant about the OP switching to PC, if he really likes the Mac. His question of change is rooted in $$$, not in working with what he likes to work in. Penny wise ... or jumping from the frying pan to the fire





Jan 22, 2023 at 10:52 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


RustyBug wrote:
Which is why I'm hesitant about the OP switching to PC, if he really likes the Mac. His question of change is rooted in $$$, not in working with what he likes to work in. Penny wise ... or jumping from the frying pan to the fire



On this — and the beer — I'm on the same page with you. I didn't want to say it from a Mac perspective, because some folks will think I'm just promoting the Mac.

But I used to tell students in courses I taught using computer software, when they asked what platform to buy into, that either would work and that the most important factor was probably what the people they would likely go to for support were using.

Generally — with computer platforms and camera brands — switching turns out to be less advantageous that folks imagine it will be. There are exceptions, but they are... exceptions.



Jan 23, 2023 at 11:29 AM
jimmy462
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


ohsnaphappy wrote:
>snip< Looking at specs alone, PC's look like they would be a lot faster and they sure cost a lot less. >snip<


IMHO, the metric for changing OS platforms would be to conduct a personal UI speed and comfort test comparison between both OS's (where practicable) performing identical workflows (as best as possible between two systems) to see how one "gets on" with the UI's and systems as-a-whole. Processor speed for still imaging has been more than sufficient for quite some time now, again, IMHO. So the question is, "how efficient is one behind the keyboard with the OS's and interfaces?" If one is losing time based on operating the OS and getting their tasks accomplished then whatever perceived hardware time savings in milliseconds just doesn't equate...again, all in my humble opinion.

Specs, schmecs, does one's OS environment inspire one to be creative or does it make one's experience a drudgery?

Jimmy G




Jan 25, 2023 at 09:20 AM
mcbroomf
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


I kind of agree with this, but to someone who is very familiar with one of the OS's to try the other and expect to use "get" it quickly enough to make a valid comparison is less than likely. I'm battling this myself as a lifelong Win user but having switched (a year ago) to an M1 Macbook Pro from an HP laptop. I still use my Windows desktop and still fumble with the Mac (ie I'm still using both). And I don't think it's because the Mac OS is less capable in creating a fluid use. I think it's just that I have a way better memory of Windows. If course it could be that Mac really does not fit with me, or even I'm getting too old to learn new tricks (though I seem to still pick up new software quickly).

I have to plug away at it as my desktop is showing it's age and I need to decide if a well spec's Studio or Win is in it's future. I just hope it doesn't break before I'm ready to make that decision ...



Jan 25, 2023 at 09:31 AM
sbay
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


mcbroomf wrote:
I kind of agree with this, but to someone who is very familiar with one of the OS's to try the other and expect to use "get" it quickly enough to make a valid comparison is less than likely.


Given how much time people spend on their computers, I think it's well worth an experiment to try a different OS for a few weeks or even months. Yeah it will cost you some time but it could potentially payoff for years (and result in much less aggravation) if you find a better OS (for you). Spend the time to customize the OS and learn the ins and outs.

Sometimes it's very little things that can make a huge difference -- for example, on the trackpads on mac laptops were leaps and bounds ahead of the typical windows laptop at the time I switched (not sure if that's still the case, haven't had a win daily driver in nearly 10 years). Much better built, larger, more responsive, supports gestures etc. It made a huge difference to me. Now for my friend that does everything with keyboard shortcuts, it's wasn't an advantage at all. I'm sure there are many things about mac that would annoy some win or linux users too.



Jan 25, 2023 at 10:13 AM
bjhurley
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


sbay wrote:
Given how much time people spend on their computers, I think it's well worth an experiment to try a different OS for a few weeks or even months. Yeah it will cost you some time but it could potentially payoff for years (and result in much less aggravation) if you find a better OS (for you). Spend the time to customize the OS and learn the ins and outs.


I've made the switch back and forth a few times, and I think months are definitely in order because you have to get past the initial adjustment phase. I actually gave Windows two years last time before switching back to Mac. I also switched fulltime to Linux for a year before going back to the Mac.

I'm very experienced in Windows and Mac; I've been using Macs since the late 1980s and Windows since the late 1990s and most of my work is in Windows; I use Mac for my creative projects (photography, music, video), managing my finances, maintaining websites, etc. It would be more efficient if we could be a one-platform household (my spouse uses Windows but she also has an iPhone and iPad) so I've tried several times to switch fulltime to Windows and ditch the Mac but I always ended up going back to the Mac. I still need to keep Windows machines here due to my work so I'm resigned to keep both; each has its strengths and weaknesses, but I am more efficient on Mac for very specific reasons that are mostly unique to my particular needs. My brother is more efficient on Windows but also uses (and writes software for) both platforms.

I think it takes at least 4-5 months to get past the annoyance phase ("this works so much better on the other platform, why is it so cumbersome here"), which colours your thinking and prevents objective evaluation. Each time I switched I kept notes on problems I encountered for future reference, and I review those notes each time I'm tempted to switch again.




Jan 25, 2023 at 11:45 AM
RustyBug
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


sbay wrote:
Given how much time people spend on their computers, I think it's well worth an experiment to try a different OS for a few weeks or even months. Yeah it will cost you some time but it could potentially payoff for years (and result in much less aggravation) if you find a better OS (for you). Spend the time to customize the OS and learn the ins and outs.

Sometimes it's very little things that can make a huge difference -- for example, on the trackpads on mac laptops were leaps and bounds ahead of the typical windows laptop at the
...Show more

I rented a MBP for a week, to see how I'd get along with it. Sure, a week isn't enough time to get proficient with a different OS.

But, it was enough time to notice how smooth certain operations were. And, enough time to go "hmmm, maybe there is something to this OS (if I can learn a new trick)". Next step, bought a 16" M1 with a given configuration. Returned it bought a different configuration (Max 64GB vs. Pro 32GB). Learned the the 16" might be too big for me (ergonomics), decide to return and wait for the M2's to come out. Holding pattern right now.

So, +1 at the expense / time to explore the realm of a different OS. If it calls to you (Mac's smoothness and heat signature are calling), great. If it doesn't ... then, you can put that bed to rest, and carry on with your present direction.

Change is expensive (time / money / learning), etc. Sometimes, it IS WORTH the endeavor. Other times, you might as well invest that same expense (time / money / learning) into your present scenario. While the OP has gone MIA, I can't help but wonder if the "sticker shock" he's having with the new Studio wouldn't be offset by the cost of change, anyway ... so, might as well stay put with Mac, and invest there vs. investing in change.

Maybe he looks at the M2 Pro Mini instead of the Studio (upgrade to Studio in out year) because of the peripherals $$$. Maybe he looks at the MBP instead of the Studio. Maybe he finances the "sticker shock". But, I do think he has not looked into his Mac OS options well enough (i.e. hasn't even tried out a new M1 / M2 chip), but is already thinking (on spec) that the move to the Windows platform looks (financially) attractive on spec.

Simply put, if he's been happy with Mac's OS and performance ... but, he's only "not happy" about the $$$ for future Mac endeavors. Well, frying pan / fire. They can both get ya cookin', they can both get ya burnt. Go with the one that you cook best with.



Jan 25, 2023 at 12:50 PM
MRomine
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


Anyone Switched from Mac to PC? ~ Heresy!


Jan 25, 2023 at 02:33 PM
jaygould
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


I have a PC as my main computer and a few Macbooks as portable solutions. Two things to note is that DXO Photolab/PureRAW is extremely slow on PC, since it cannot use the GPU (at least it cannot use Nvidia). Mac on the other hand is really slow with Canon's DPP.


Feb 01, 2023 at 12:52 PM
CanadaMark
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


jaygould wrote:
I have a PC as my main computer and a few Macbooks as portable solutions. Two things to note is that DXO Photolab/PureRAW is extremely slow on PC, since it cannot use the GPU (at least it cannot use Nvidia). Mac on the other hand is really slow with Canon's DPP.


This is not true, DXO Pure Raw uses Nvidia GPU acceleration just fine just FYI - it is in fact specifically optimized for it. I send thousands of files through it and it's extremely quick. 45MP RAWs are processed in a matter of seconds per image. DXO even has a writeup on their website about how it's heavily optimized for GPU acceleration. They rate the processing speed at around 2 megapixels per second using entry-level GPUs from 3 generations ago - if you have something newer/better, it will be much faster.

Run some monitoring software and you will see it is using your GPU - if it's not, something is wrong.



Feb 01, 2023 at 01:27 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


MRomine wrote:
Anyone Switched from Mac to PC? ~ Heresy!


crickets?



Feb 02, 2023 at 11:53 AM
Ho1972
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


jaygould wrote:
I have a PC as my main computer and a few Macbooks as portable solutions. Two things to note is that DXO Photolab/PureRAW is extremely slow on PC, since it cannot use the GPU (at least it cannot use Nvidia).


Seriously? Have a look at the DxO DeepPrime benchmark spreadsheet. The top 13 places are all held by Win machines before an M1 Max finally breaks the drought.



Feb 02, 2023 at 12:14 PM
CanadaMark
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


Ho1972 wrote:
Seriously? Have a look at the DxO DeepPrime benchmark spreadsheet. The top 13 places are all held by Win machines before an M1 Max finally breaks the drought.


Yeah I am not sure what is going on with his results, but something is wrong if he's not getting GPU acceleration.

The GPU side of a M1 MAX performs roughly in line with a midrange Nvidia GPU from 2 generations ago or an entry level GPU from the previous generation.

There are a couple suspicious results in that spreadsheet though, unless I am misunderstanding something, it is showing a 3700X/2070 combo beating a 5950X/3090 combo.



Feb 02, 2023 at 01:09 PM
CanadaMark
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


gdanmitchell wrote:
crickets?


I know many who have made the switch for a variety of reasons both on the software and hardware side of things. Is it really worth discussing? Just buy what works best for your specific usage and in the specific applications you use.

For example, someone who decides they want to play games is going to be in the Windows ecosystem. Someone who was trained on Final Cut Pro rather than Davinci Resolve for video editing is going to want a Mac. There are endless reasons for both.




Feb 02, 2023 at 01:12 PM
dclark
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


gdanmitchell wrote:
On this — and the beer — I'm on the same page with you. I didn't want to say it from a Mac perspective, because some folks will think I'm just promoting the Mac.

But I used to tell students in courses I taught using computer software, when they asked what platform to buy into, that either would work and that the most important factor was probably what the people they would likely go to for support were using.

Generally — with computer platforms and camera brands — switching turns out to be less advantageous that folks imagine it will be. There are exceptions, but they
...Show more

---------------------------------------------

MRomine wrote:
Anyone Switched from Mac to PC? ~ Heresy!


---------------------------------------------

gdanmitchell wrote:
crickets?


Although some get pretty excited, the debate between Mac and PC is boring. The computers we use are hardly enabling, they are more a matter of convenience and personal preference. For many years I kept 3 or 4 systems, a mix of Mac's and PC's, for my personal use. It was useful for business reasons. When I retired a few years ago I narrowed down to a couple of Windows based systems. I chose to go with Windows for two reasons.

1. I like to configure and build my own computers and upgrade them continuously. That is not possible with Mac's. In addition to being a personal preference, it saves me money since I don't keep replacing stuff that is still working well. Rather than pay thousands of dollars every few years to buy an all new system, I spend less every few months and upgrade and experiment with different components. Although this suits my personal preference,it does not enable me to get better photos than I would get if I used a different computer. Also, I understand that for most photographers this is a very bad idea. If they opened up their computer and started fiddling around in there it would be a disaster.

2. I like to experiment with and use a lot of third party software, some if from small software developers. Mac's are more prone to break stuff with OS upgrades. Apple stuff all works but if you operate outside the Apple ecosystem you are at risk. That's why many of my Mac based photographer friends are using older versions of the Mac OS. Windows OS upgrades break stuff too, but, in my experience, less often.

Regardless, which system is better is largely a matter of personal preference and does not enable better photography.

Cameras can be enabling. I have been shooting with a variety of brands for over five decades, but mostly Canon until 2017. In 2017 I got an A9. I shoot a lot of wildlife, including birds in flight. I recall the first day I took the A9 to Torrey Pines to try it out. Amazing!! The high frame rate, fast AF, and no blackout EVF transformed my photography. I was getting shots I could not have gotten before. The technology in that camera was enabling. I switched and I'm glad I did. Otherwise I would have missed a lot of my favorite shots.

Most photographers don't stress camera technology with what they like to photograph, so they might not find enabling technology in other cameras. But the advice that it's not worth changing brands would have been bad advice for me in 2017, and I believe there are good reasons to change brands today. Advising stasis is in my opinion not good advice.

Maybe this will generate enough commentary to drown out the crickets.



Feb 03, 2023 at 10:43 PM
LCPete
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


dclark wrote:
---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

Although some get pretty excited, the debate between Mac and PC is boring. The computers we use are hardly enabling, they are more a matter of convenience and personal preference. For many years I kept 3 or 4 systems, a mix of Mac's and PC's, for my personal use. It was useful for business reasons. When I retired a few years ago I narrowed down to a couple of Windows based systems. I chose to go with Windows for two reasons.

1. I like to configure and build my own computers and upgrade them continuously. That is not possible with Mac's.
...Show more

I kept my Dell desktop windows PC going for years with upgrading components but also used a MacBook for trips away as I prefer the Apple laptops
When it came to get a new laptop and desktop recently I went for a reasonable spec MacBook Pro laptop and use it at home and away , it didn’t seem worth getting a desktop as well the apple laptop can now easily do everything I need

Agree that camera bodies can be enabling, I went mirrorless my Canon R5 has transformed my macro photography, the focus bracketing means that I can do things I never could before




Feb 04, 2023 at 01:40 AM
jaygould
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


CanadaMark wrote:
This is not true, DXO Pure Raw uses Nvidia GPU acceleration just fine just FYI - it is in fact specifically optimized for it. I send thousands of files through it and it's extremely quick. 45MP RAWs are processed in a matter of seconds per image. DXO even has a writeup on their website about how it's heavily optimized for GPU acceleration. They rate the processing speed at around 2 megapixels per second using entry-level GPUs from 3 generations ago - if you have something newer/better, it will be much faster.

Run some monitoring software and you will see it is
...Show more

That's strange, because processing a single raw file on my PC (Nvidia 3060 12GB, 64 GB Ram, 8-core CPU) takes 30-35 seconds. On my older Macbook laptop (with no dedicated GPU, 8GB Ram) it takes at most 5 seconds.

When I look at the settings in DXO, it says that my GPU is only "partially" supported, and has an asterix next to it.




Feb 05, 2023 at 03:43 PM
chiron
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


Part of the issue in choosing between Windows and Mac for graphics-intensive use is the degree of knowledge and interest in computers that is required to configure each system.

As @dclark@ points out above, Windows systems can be extensively configured with a wide range of CPU, graphics cards, memory, and other options. Mac computers are not configurable and come in a set of flavors in a mostly sealed casing. Apple's specialty has always been making elegant technology that is easy to use.

This is an advantage for Windows but only if one is interested and capable of designing one's own system. The Mac is a much simpler high-powered option for people who want the power but aren't interested in computers per se.

I am not interested in computers per se. I have a good Dell system, which was great for writing a book and articles on Word, but I couldn't tell you what graphics card I chose. Same with my Lenovo laptop. But neither system was a wiz with photographs. Lightroom often crashed and I could make coffee while waiting for DXO to load.

By buying a Macbook Pro, I got the trouble of learning a new interface but I also got a well-speced machine for photography which handles Lightroom, DXO, and multiple other photography software with great speed and ease. And I didn't have to try to learn things I am not interested in, like which graphics card is best.

I agree with dclark. If you really like computers, configuring a system, and experimenting with software, then Windows gives you more range to operate. But you better get it right for the purposes for which you are using the system. If you want a powerful, elegant machine to do graphics-intensive work at a very high level, and you don't want to learn how to spec and configure a system, it is easy to choose a very potent and fun-to-use Mac off the shelf.




Feb 06, 2023 at 08:38 AM
chez
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


chiron wrote:
Part of the issue in choosing between Windows and Mac for graphics-intensive use is the degree of knowledge and interest in computers that is required to configure each system.

As @dclark@@ points out above, Windows systems can be extensively configured with a wide range of CPU, graphics cards, memory, and other options. Mac computers are not configurable and come in a set of flavors in a mostly sealed casing. Apple's specialty has always been making elegant technology that is easy to use.

This is an advantage for Windows but only if one is interested and capable of designing one's own system.
...Show more

The other big difference between PC and Mac is the ability to upgrade components with the PC as your needs change. With the Mac, you need to purchase today a system you think you'll need 5 years from now. With the PC, you can morph the system to your needs as your needs ( or your software requirements ) change.

For example, today I shoot stills...but who knows if in 5 years I might be shooting more video which requires different demands on a computer.



Feb 06, 2023 at 10:29 AM
bjhurley
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Anyone Switched from Mac to PC?


chez wrote:
The other big difference between PC and Mac is the ability to upgrade components with the PC as your needs change. With the Mac, you need to purchase today a system you think you'll need 5 years from now. With the PC, you can morph the system to your needs as your needs ( or your software requirements ) change.


To some extent, yes. But if you need to upgrade the RAM, GPU, and CPU basically you're just keeping the box...kind of like the proverbial Davy Crockett's axe ("this is Davy Crockett's axe: it has had five new heads and six new handles, but it's still his axe.")

I've occasionally added more RAM and replaced hard discs or SSDs in my Windows machines, but usually what makes them obsolete is the CPU (or in the case of Windows 11, TPM requirements).

Same goes for the Mac, really: my two Macs are from 2013 and 2014 and are on MacOS Monterey but can't be upgraded to Ventura...once Apple stops supporting Monterey I'll either have to retire them or cut them off from the internet.



Feb 06, 2023 at 10:44 AM
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