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Archive 2023 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's

  
 
jaygould
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


I recently bought the R6 (mark I). I am really disappointed in how skin tones and portraits look when opening raws in Adobe. The standard Adobe profiles (Color/Portrait/Standard) look better than the camera specific profiles. But none actually look good. The problem with the camera profiles is that skin tones look too pink and/or red, and uneven on top of it. Applying these also tend to remove shadows in the face and flatten everything out.

DPP colors also look bad (too pink and red). The only one that seems to be working OK for me is Capture One, and JPEG straight out of camera. But since I don't like using Capture One, I have to open the raw there, save it as TIFF, and then re-open it with Photoshop. I wish I could have the in-camera JPEG as a starting point for my RAWs. I thought DPP would be able to do this.

Any suggestions? Sell camera and move to Sony or Panasonic? Having to use two separate software to process a single image takes a lot of time and makes me have second thoughts about the camera. My old Canon 6D never had this problem.



Jan 18, 2023 at 02:24 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


Canon RAW opened at default is on the warm side with over saturated reds and oranges. Why not adjust the color the way you like it and save it as a color profile?


Jan 18, 2023 at 04:38 PM
Mike_5D
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


I've always thought the portrait profiles were too red so I use Camera Faithful in Lightroom and go from there.


Jan 18, 2023 at 04:46 PM
jaygould
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


I just installed Colorfidelity's presets. Seems much better so far. Will continue testing with more photos later.


Jan 18, 2023 at 05:20 PM
StephenS_CP
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


I very seldom photograph people, and never portraits. But I don't often read about Canon shooters complaining about Canon skin tones here on FM Canon forum. One curious statement in your post:

The only one that seems to be working OK for me is ... JPEG straight out of camera.

It is my understanding that while camera settings don't influence RAW content, it is also my understanding that DPP knows your camera settings and applies them to the image presentation. So DPP's presentation of your image should be a pretty close approximation of the JPG.

One place I can imagine might help explain the difference between the RAW and JPG versions you are seeing is the color space. At least for the duration of this investigation, it might be worthwhile to make sure that you are using consistent color space settings across your entire workflow. Since LR works in wide-gamut, both aRGB and ProPhoto, and DPP should also be set to aRGB, your camera JPG setting should also be aRGB in order to ensure that you have consistent presentation.

Of course, the other variable could be monitor color accuracy. I've seen many monitor evaluations where the monitor calibrated very well for sRGB but not at all well for aRGB.

Just out of curiosity, do you have the same problem with your R10? You have already indicted you didn't have this problem with the 6D.

Interestingly, an internet search [eos r6 colors too warm] returned this possibly pertinent YouTube:







Jan 18, 2023 at 07:23 PM
koenkooi
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


jaygould wrote:
I just installed Colorfidelity's presets. Seems much better so far. Will continue testing with more photos later.


This can't be said enough, especially if you like the JPEGs straight out of the camera and you're using Adobe products. The builtin Adobe profiles were close JPEG/DPP4 output for Canon bodies before 2019, the M6II was the first body were the difference was not only large, but also looked bad. Zombie grey is not a good look for skintones outside of Halloween/Carnaval.



Jan 19, 2023 at 01:56 AM
Eyvind Ness
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


Another vote for Color Fidelity profiles. Incredibly, Adobe didn't bother to create Camera Matching profiles for the R5/R6 until quite recently. Some would argue they still haven't gotten it right. I'm still using my CF profiles, also.



Jan 19, 2023 at 04:37 AM
evertdoorn
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


Since Adobe has updated the canon profiles for the R5 I use these (used to use colorfidelity) for all my professional and wildlife work


Jan 19, 2023 at 06:07 AM
garyvot
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


jaygould wrote:
DPP colors also look bad (too pink and red). The only one that seems to be working OK for me is Capture One, and JPEG straight out of camera.


This statement is confusing to me. Colors out of DPP (using default settings) should nearly perfectly match the JPEG result.

Question: do you change the default in-camera color profile from sRGB to Adobe RGB? If you do this, you will find that JPEGs pick up additional saturation, which may be unwanted. This is the default look that Adobe's Camera Standard RAW profiles attempt to emulate. If you leave the JPEG profile at sRGB, you may feel like the RAW result in ACR is over-saturated (using Camera Standard).

If you are not aware, it is quite possible to fine tune the Adobe default conversions for any specific camera model. You can adjust the color response, saturation, gamma, etc. to match the JPEG output you prefer, and set that as the default for future conversions. I always calibrate my ACR workflow this way when picking up a new camera body.

Good luck.



Jan 19, 2023 at 09:13 AM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's



Eyvind Ness wrote:
Another vote for Color Fidelity profiles. Incredibly, Adobe didn't bother to create Camera Matching profiles for the R5/R6 until quite recently. Some would argue they still haven't gotten it right. I'm still using my CF profiles, also.


I’m not sure about not bothering. I tried to figure out why that happened. No one will say but it may have been a legal issue. You know what happens when two big corporations go head to head. Adobe had RAW support and colour profiles for the R3 the day it was released. Pretty fast with the other newer bodies.



Jan 19, 2023 at 09:16 AM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


evertdoorn wrote:
Since Adobe has updated the canon profiles for the R5 I use these (used to use colorfidelity) for all my professional and wildlife work


Me too. I start with Adobe Color and sometimes I don't mind it for wildlife. I find it is between Canon Standard and Faithful.



Jan 19, 2023 at 10:39 AM
Alan Kefauver
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


I have been using Tony Kyper's Linear Profiles (R5), then into DxO for NR, then to LrC as a DNG.


Jan 19, 2023 at 11:08 AM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


Alan Kefauver wrote:
I have been using Tony Kyper's Linear Profiles (R5), then into DxO for NR, then to LrC as a DNG.


I tried them but I didn't warm up to that approach. I used Color Fidelity while waiting for the R5 profiles.




Jan 19, 2023 at 11:18 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


I haven't shot R6, but one reason I use DPP is because I can get the lcd image and presumably jpeg as a starting point. Or really close.

Really annoying on the other raw processors I tried several years ago to often see them ruin the image and have to get it back. Tried DxO, RawTherapee, and Darktable. Mostly preferred DPP 3 output at the time, and use DPP4 for raw these days.




Jan 19, 2023 at 01:28 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


AmbientMike wrote:
I haven't shot R6, but one reason I use DPP is because I can get the lcd image and presumably jpeg as a starting point. Or really close.

Really annoying on the other raw processors I tried several years ago to often see them ruin the image and have to get it back. Tried DxO, RawTherapee, and Darktable. Mostly preferred DPP 3 output at the time, and use DPP4 for raw these days.



That would be a jpeg. It's why I always use Quick Check - Full Screen to cull before importing to DPP. DPP's downsizing algorithm for 'fit to screen' display is very good and contrasty, like a final jpeg. If I was a pro I'd something like photo mechanic but for what I do DPP is plenty.

It is s shame their Neural NR went cloud cased and is currently $5 a month to process 80 files.



Jan 19, 2023 at 02:12 PM
IndyFab
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's





Jan 20, 2023 at 11:34 AM
IndyFab
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


Zenon Char wrote:
I tried them but I didn't warm up to that approach. I used Color Fidelity while waiting for the R5 profiles.



Linear Profiles will look dull at first. Are you using the TK panel, if not, I suggest giving the TK panel a try in conjunction with Linear Profiles..

Its always recommended to use NR first prior to any processing including adding a Linear Profile






Jan 20, 2023 at 11:41 AM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


IndyFab wrote:
Linear Profiles will look dull at first. Are you using the TK panel, if not, I suggest giving the TK panel a try in conjunction with Linear Profiles..

Its always recommended to use NR first prior to any processing including adding a Linear Profile



No I haven't



Jan 20, 2023 at 12:51 PM
IndyFab
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


Zenon Char wrote:
No I haven't


If interested, get the TK8 plugin plus Video Guide, Easy to learn, Sean does a great job teaching you the panel. Plus every friday "The Joy of Editing" U-tube channel has a video using the panel on different edits, plus all the previous one's he has done. You'll be up an running in no time.

https://goodlight.us/panels-and-videos.html






Jan 21, 2023 at 02:37 PM
Benaff
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Adobe color profiles better than Canon's


Does anyone use Color Fidelity profiles for R6 Mark II?
Сan't find samples of exactly R6m2.



Jun 14, 2023 at 05:38 AM
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