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Archive 2023 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

I'm posting this for someone else — the other photographer in our household. (I barely use Lightroom. I'm still stubbornly stuck in the past and using an ACR/Photoshop workflow.)

The other photographer here uses a bunch of custom paper sizes and layouts in Lightroom. With the most recent Lightroom updates and the most recent Apple OS version (Ventura 13.1) the began to encounter a range of fatal printing problems with both of her Epson printers, and when using two different recent Mac OS computers. Selecting custom page sizes or trying to create new ones crashes the program.

These are page sizes that she has been using without problems for quite a while.

She has been in contact with a bunch of other Lightroom/Apple users who are having the same problem, and they have apparently gotten the attention of Adobe now, where an official incident number has apparently been created. But despite at least one more recent OS update and (I think) at least one Lightroom update, the problem persists for her and others.

Is anyone else using both the most current versions of Ventura and Lightroom on Intel-processor Macs successfully with custom paper sizes? Is anyone else here encountering the problem?

Thanks.

Edited on Feb 08, 2023 at 11:37 AM · View previous versions

Jan 16, 2023 at 05:37 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Has anyone actually copped to the problem. Usually you get a three way circular firing squad between Apple, Epson and Adobe. I have a slightly different issue where printing from Monterey and Ps 2022 gave washed out skin tones on the Epson 9900. The question to Apple went way over their collective heads and trying to talk to Adobe resulted in incoherent gibberish from their end and their CSR treating me like I was a brand new user even after telling him I've been doing high end printing and color work for a quarter century. Ugh.

Now begins the process of testing different operating systems and different Ps versions but I did discover last Friday that Ps 2023 actually prints correctly from 12.6.1 Monterey. Well, that's progress. I bought a cheap 2TB USB drive, partitioned it and have put Big Sur on one partition and will put Ventura on the other. Then comes the process of seeing what actually works. Double ugh.

I'm only mentioning this because this is all basic troubleshooting 101 and might be necessary on your end to track down exactly what combination is triggering the crashing, or in my case, the wonky color.

A quarter century into this, it's supposed to get easier, not more difficult.

Jan 16, 2023 at 08:39 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Peter Figen wrote:
Has anyone actually copped to the problem. Usually you get a three way circular firing squad between Apple, Epson and Adobe. I have a slightly different issue where printing from Monterey and Ps 2022 gave washed out skin tones on the Epson 9900. The question to Apple went way over their collective heads and trying to talk to Adobe resulted in incoherent gibberish from their end and their CSR treating me like I was a brand new user even after telling him I've been doing high end printing and color work for a quarter century. Ugh.

Now begins the...Show more →

Your "three way circular firing squad" description is pretty apt. As a person who has long used Epson printers, Adobe software, and Apple computers, I've had plenty of opportunities to run into this occasionally. (I also like the products from all three companies, which I suppose makes it even more exasperating.)

My wife — also a photographer and printer — relies on Lightroom (like most photographers there days), and because I rely on Photoshop I'm not as conversant with the precise issue she is having. But she's been on a bunch of adobe supported (and adobe-centric non-adobe) discussions that have made it clear that there is a real problem with printing on Ventura out of the current version of LR.

She's already been through the usual first stage of "first try this thing that probably won't help, then try this other thing that won't help, and then try yet another irrelevant thing..." She has it on fairly good authority that Adobe has now recognized internally that there is an actual problem, but whether it is an Apple thing or an Adobe thing isn't clear. And — of course! — no one at Adobe will say anything official about it.

So I suspect they are not at the finger-pointing stage where Adobe points and Apple and says, "Your update made this happen!" To which Apple — like accurately — replaces, "We told you last year that you had to update your software in anticipation of this change and you didn't do it!"

Given the number of people discussing it where my wife hangs out, I was just surprised that no one had mentioned it here.

Dan

Jan 17, 2023 at 05:25 PM

sbay
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Assuming you mean lightroom classic, I haven't had problems although I mostly run standard sizes. Just did a custom size and it worked fine. Adobe lightroom 12.1, Ventura 13.1, not sure what epson driver but it says it's up to date, Epson P800 on a 2017 intel iMac i7.

Jan 17, 2023 at 06:50 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Indeed, "Classic."

Jan 17, 2023 at 08:02 PM

schlotz
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Until Adobe figures it out I would suggest looking at Qimage to do the printing. Very powerful app.

Jan 18, 2023 at 08:17 AM

Bernie
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

I had washed out colors and color shifts with Monterey using Epson P7000 via PS. Colors came back to normal with Ventura (and associated Epson driver).

Jan 18, 2023 at 11:35 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Bernie wrote:
I had washed out colors and color shifts with Monterey using Epson P7000 via PS. Colors came back to normal with Ventura (and associated Epson driver).

That's an odd one. Had not heard of that issue.

Jan 20, 2023 at 12:39 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Still no resolution to the issue. It seems like it is more likely at Adobe's door than at Apples. For example, the problem doesn't occur when printing from Photoshop... just in Lightroom.

I'll update at such time as we see a solution.

One thing is interesting: While my wife is aware of a number of users who are having the problem described here, so far no one else on FM seems to have encountered it.

Jan 20, 2023 at 11:55 PM

Camperjim
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

gdanmitchell wrote:
[

Given the number of people discussing it where my wife hangs out, I was just surprised that no one had mentioned it here.

Dan

I am not surprised. There is very minimal discussion of printing on this forum. For printing discussions I typically look at the printer forum on DPR. I use PCs so I have no idea about the details, but there are countless printing issues mentioned with MACs. There are many examples were printers have stopped working properly because of an OS upgrade for MACs. Sometimes that is a temporary issue. Other times, the driver is not updated and the printer fails to work properly forever. Perhaps your issue is different but I am certainly not surprised to see that a MAC computer is involved. I am using an older printer so there is no way I would consider a change from PC to MAC.

Jan 22, 2023 at 09:46 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Camperjim wrote:
I am not surprised. There is very minimal discussion of printing on this forum. For printing discussions I typically look at the printer forum on DPR. I use PCs so I have no idea about the details, but there are countless printing issues mentioned with MACs. There are many examples were printers have stopped working properly because of an OS upgrade for MACs. Sometimes that is a temporary issue. Other times, the driver is not updated and the printer fails to work properly forever. Perhaps your issue is different but I am certainly not surprised to see that a MAC...Show more →

I am surprised. I've used Macs since, well, a year after they were introduced. I've used them for image processing since, believe it or not, the mid-1990s. I started doing serious inkjet printing a few years into the 2000s. Almost all of the photographers and printers I know — including a few heavy hitters — are on the Mac platform.

Over the years we've had exactly two problems. In one case it was Epson abandoning a printer that we had. We were caught by surprise, and it was time to get something better — and I had a huge sale that more than funded a new printer — so we moved on.

The latest issue we are having — which apparently affects a small number of Lightroom users — is only the second.

Over the years — I've used computers professionally since 1972 (when I was involved at a workshop at a lab the was one of the nodes on the original arpanet, but I digress...) and one thing that I've learned over the years is that partisans of one brand, platform, operating system, application, piece of hardware all too often have a ready list of all of the flaws in the platform that they don't use but somehow seem blind to the flaws in the platform that they do use.

Eventually this becomes a source of some amusement.

One other (little) thing. I'm unfamiliar with the odd construction, "MAC." Everyone I know writes "Mac," as in the shortened form of the name of the computer line. (I think that "MAC" could work for the PC kit building crowd, where perhaps it could stand for "Made A Computer..." ;-)

Thanks for the point about the DPR forum. I'll take a look.

Jan 22, 2023 at 01:34 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

MAC was always an acronym for Mamiya America Corporation. Mac is the shortened version of Macintosh which I don't think is used anymore but Mac lives on. It's a small but important distinction that reminds me of when certain people refer to the Democratic Party as the Democrat Party.

The problem with printing is that as improvements are made in the operating system sometimes just a few lines of code are changed which affects the data path and how things like output profiles are applied or when they are applied. Apple makes an overall improvement in the OS which forces Epson and Adobe to follow suit. But they don't always get it right and they don't always cooperate with each other, and sometimes it's really hard to pinpoint where the problem lies, and sometimes the problem is not consistent.

I mean, what the hell changed between Photoshop 2022 and Photoshop 2023 (and eff Adobe for having dual numbering systems for the same product) when v 2022 when printing from Monterey 12.6.1 prints washed out and 2023 prints perfectly with the same OS and the same driver. That has to be an Adobe issue and not and Apple or Epson issue but when you call Adobe all you find out is that they've outsourced their tech support to South Asia and no one there understands a damned thing about this stuff, which is only exacerbated by severe language issues. It takes a long time to test all the different configurations to determine exactly what works with what, and there may be other unknown factors as well.

Jan 22, 2023 at 03:35 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Jan 22, 2023 at 03:59 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

On my recent call with them, and after spending a few minutes outlining the troubleshooting steps I had already gone through, plus being very careful to convey my level of expertise in using the software for 28 years and making my own custom profiles for 25, their CSR still treated me like I was a first grade Photoshop newbie who had never printed before. I hung up after less than a minute of being insulted and not listened to, which was equally insulting. I've got a lot going on in the studio this week but hopefully I can get to more detailed testing in the next couple of weeks to try and drill down to the bottom of these issues. Keep y'all posted.

Jan 22, 2023 at 07:20 PM

melcat
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

In computing, a MAC address or media access control address is the unique number assigned to every Ethernet network device. This is used to identify the device on a LAN until it has been assigned an IP address. It’s sometimes just referred to as “the MAC” for short.

Rightly or wrongly, when I see an Apple Mac referred to as a “MAC”, I am on the alert for an end user who collects computing jargon without understanding it. Apple’s marketing is so ubiquitous it’s hard to imagine anyone (in a rich country at least) not knowing the iPhone, Mac etc. trademarks.

I’ve been lurking over at the DPR Printing and MacOS forums for a couple of weeks in anticipation of replacing my dead printer. It was after all there and not here that I read about the black ink switch valve failure that eventually gets all R3000 printers and claimed mine – knowing what had failed saved me from wasting money and time in a fruitless attempt to get it fixed. There is much more traffic over there, but I have noticed some utterly incorrect answers posted and sometimes accepted, so mine it for theories rather than truths.

Jan 22, 2023 at 08:50 PM

Camperjim
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

Peter Figen wrote:
MAC was always an acronym for Mamiya America Corporation. Mac is the shortened version of Macintosh which I don't think is used anymore but Mac lives on. It's a small but important distinction that reminds me of when certain people refer to the Democratic Party as the Democrat Party.

The problem with printing is that as improvements are made in the operating system sometimes just a few lines of code are changed which affects the data path and how things like output profiles are applied or when they are applied. Apple makes an overall improvement in the OS which...Show more →

I have not had to change my printer driver with Windows updates. That has included countless upgrades and O/S changes from Windows 7, to 10 and at least for others to Windows 11. The driver and printer functions still work the same. It seems like this is an Apple problem and expecting Epson or Adobe or countless other software vendors to "get it right" should not be necessary. Certainly Microsoft has more than enough issues but at least this is not one of them.

Jan 22, 2023 at 10:38 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

UPDATE 2/7/22:

In the original post in this thread I described a printing problem that my wife was having with the newest Adobe LR and the newest Apple OS Ventura, and I mentioned that others were having similar issues and reporting them on an Adobe board.

Because she is very diligent about tracking and recording the nature of the problem, Adobe eventually seemed to "get it" that the problem was real and that she could provide accurate reports on the issue. Basically, there was some question of where the "blame" for the issue lay — and I think that it still may be a bit unclear, regardless of what I'm about to share. Perhaps it was something in Apple's OS update. Perhaps it was something in the most recent update of LR, which happened exactly when the problem began. Perhaps it was even something else.

Anyway, she became part of a beta testing program at Adobe, and the problem persisted (with partial improvement) when using the betas. Everyone seemed stumped. (Her's wasn't the only problem, and some of those with slightly different issues managed to resolve them.)

During the past week we realized that the issue was only affecting LR, only cropping up with custom paper sizes, and only happening on Epson "P" printers, of which she has two. It did not occur if she printed to our little non-photo printer/scanner from Epson. At this point, she was put in touch with someone at Epson who gave her a link to some new (?) software for fully uninstalling Epson printer drivers and reinstalling them from scratch.

And...

problem solved.

It is still not possible to say whose "fault" the issue was. It is tempting to say that it was a primer driver issue. However, the drivers did not change — it was LR and the OS that changed and brought on the problem.

Dan

Feb 08, 2023 at 11:37 AM

zuru
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

gdanmitchell wrote:
I'm posting this for someone else — the other photographer in our household. (I barely use Lightroom. I'm still stubbornly stuck in the past and using an ACR/Photoshop workflow.)

The other photographer here uses a bunch of custom paper sizes and layouts in Lightroom. With the most recent Lightroom updates and the most recent Apple OS version (Ventura 13.1) the began to encounter a range of fatal printing problems with both of her Epson printers, and when using two different recent Mac OS computers. Selecting custom page sizes or trying to create new ones crashes the program.

These are page sizes that she...Show more →

Dan,

I found your post more or less randomly after spending hours searching the internet for problems I have with Ventura and printing to my Canon pro-10, when things worked fine for years until Monterrey. It turns out that Apple destroyed the printing flow with Ventura and I confirmed this with a whole bunch of people that also talked to Apple. So the problem is not just with Epson printers but with other brands too. The behavior is that printer settings are reset every time you go to print, which is a royal PITA. In my case, the choice of color management is chosen randomly at the Print settings point which is not good since PS/LR should tell the driver to let PS/LR manage color.

I found a workaround to set the defaults for the printer which includes paper size, quality, etc. The issue with color management remains.I can post here if you are interested.

Last word is that Apple knows about this and it's not fixed. Why this happens to some and not others is a mystery. I think most people are just happy printing to defaults and never swapping every setting like what we do for printing photos.

Feb 20, 2023 at 10:21 PM

Maggiotto
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

At this point, she was put in touch with someone at Epson who gave her a link to some new (?) software for fully uninstalling Epson printer drivers and reinstalling them from scratch.

Can you share this link so we might try to repair our same issue? Thank you.

Mar 07, 2023 at 05:28 PM

Camperjim
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · SOLVED (Printing problem with Mac OS Ventura and Lightroom?)

gdanmitchell wrote:
It is still not possible to say whose "fault" the issue was. It is tempting to say that it was a primer driver issue. However, the drivers did not change — it was LR and the OS that changed and brought on the problem.

Dan

I have heard the same sort of issue with Mac OS upgrades and various printers over many years. I am not sure why this seems to happen with Mac computers and not PCs. At least you can be happy the issue was resolved.

Mar 07, 2023 at 05:59 PM

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