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Archive 2022 · Z9 firmware 3.01

Eric214
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Z9 firmware 3.01

CKrueger wrote:
2.11 - All is well
3.0 - Cool new features, but a bug forced me to flip my AF-ON and Fn1 button assignments for a while
3.01 - All is well again

My favorite new features in the v3 firmware were the 60fps DX pre-capture and ability to have exposure simulation turn off only when using flash. I'm really happy that I can now get those without the focus button issue!

I wonder what the odds of a v4 firmware with RAW pre-capture is? That's the last feature that would make a significant difference for my Z9 shooting.

Last few NPS zoom calls they have mentioned that the engineers have heard that everyone wants the pre capture in raw and are looking into it. No confirmation that it's coming but they are looking at that. So certainly a chance

Dec 20, 2022 at 05:41 PM

CanadaMark
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Z9 firmware 3.01

Eric214 wrote:
Last few NPS zoom calls they have mentioned that the engineers have heard that everyone wants the pre capture in raw and are looking into it. No confirmation that it's coming but they are looking at that. So certainly a chance

If they can add it even just for HE* RAWs that would be a leg-up on the competition and a feather in Nikon's cap. Either that or they will have to add a 12bit option. I am assuming they can't do it at 14bit lossless compressed or they would have from the get go, but I'd love to be wrong.

Dec 20, 2022 at 06:08 PM

bernardl
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Z9 firmware 3.01

Indeed, this would be fine in HE* only, same for 30 fps raw btw.

As support for HE* is expanding in raw converters (only DxO is still missing it but it should be coming soon), this is becoming a real added value of the camera.

I still hope that Nikon would release an hybrid raw mode where high fps sequences start in lossless compressed and then switch automatically to HE* when the buffer gets close to full. I had discussed this with Ricci early 2022 and he conveyed it to Nikon engineers here in Tokyo, but no news yet.

As far as 3.01 goes, not tested yet but I had seen some slight tracking inaccuracies (nothing major) with the 70-200mm f2.8 in C1 and C2 mode with eye AF activated, which is part of the enhancements, so need to confirm that.

Dec 20, 2022 at 09:28 PM

RoamingScott
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Z9 firmware 3.01

I’ve shot nothing but HE* since day 1 and have zero complaints with the files.

Dec 20, 2022 at 09:44 PM

CKrueger
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Z9 firmware 3.01

HE* is great! I know many photographers refuse to lose a single bit of precision across a single pixel, and some even are frightened of lossless compression, but I've happily taken the lossy RAW plunge. At least with LRC, I have no issues with lossy with my Z9, GFX100S, or XT5.

I shot test photos of feathers, fur, hair, skin, trees, and any other texture I could think of, at low and high ISO. I've shot the smooth gradients of sunsets. And I've recovered highlights and pulled shadows. I've even overlaid layers of RAW files to see the actual different pixels to see where the lossy algorithm would hurt me.

Without having a lossless and lossy RAW side-by-side at 100%, there's no noticeable difference in the vast majority of cases. Even when you can detect the difference, the difference is so minor that you have to A/B test to find it. You'd find a bigger image quality difference by going from ISO400 to ISO320.

Lossy RAW is the best choice of image format available for any RAW-appropriate photographic use. At this point the only reason to avoid it is a lack of software support. And hopefully that will be a non-issue in a year or two as manufacturers update their processors.

(Hopefully HEIF support also rolls out quickly, so our forensic and press compatriots can similarly dump JPEG!)

Dec 21, 2022 at 09:18 AM

lukemeup
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Z9 firmware 3.01

On a side note - the AF seems indeed improved. While I can't do any side-by-side the initial acquisition is more snappy & there's a tangible improvement overall. I'm hoping it's not a placebo effect and others will see a difference as well.

Dec 21, 2022 at 10:39 AM

CanadaMark
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Z9 firmware 3.01

CKrueger wrote:
HE* is great! I know many photographers refuse to lose a single bit of precision across a single pixel, and some even are frightened of lossless compression, but I've happily taken the lossy RAW plunge. At least with LRC, I have no issues with lossy with my Z9, GFX100S, or XT5.

I shot test photos of feathers, fur, hair, skin, trees, and any other texture I could think of, at low and high ISO. I've shot the smooth gradients of sunsets. And I've recovered highlights and pulled shadows. I've even overlaid layers of RAW files to see the actual different pixels...Show more →

You are correct.

There is no real difference between HE* and Lossless Compressed. You might be able to see the most minute difference in the most extreme testing (I.e. a shadow push beyond what anyone would do in practice) and a lab inspection, but absolutely nobody would be able to tell them apart in a blind test or under any normal circumstances, and it would never affect your final result. When a good RAW converter supports it, I will be switching to HE* for everything. HE (no star) is a noticeable step down when you push the file but would still be fine for the vast majority of situations. The nice thing is it's all 14bit still, so HE* is a better file than a 12bit.

Lossy compressed / 12bit is only really noticeable at low ISOs with a shadow push - at higher ISOs the difference all but disappears. Other brands force you into these file types when using electronic shutter or higher frame rates, which is fine for action but not optimal for landscape type work where you are more likely to be manipulating the shadows.

Lossless compression is literally and mathematically identical to uncompressed, and the only reason to ever shoot fully uncompressed would be if your preferred editing software did not support anything else. Good to have the option though I suppose.

Dec 21, 2022 at 12:16 PM

Eric214
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Z9 firmware 3.01

I have compared the lossless files to the HE* and i honestly can not see any difference in IQ till a zoom in to about 300%. I have LG 27" 4k HDR10 99% color accurate monitors that I'm viewing these images on as well.

I have been shooting HE* file format since the day LR had support for them. I have a huge buffer, about 480 frames with the cards i have at 20fps. Totally happy with this and storage isn't an issue with a Synology NAS with 24TB of storage.

Dec 21, 2022 at 12:20 PM

CKrueger
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Z9 firmware 3.01

CanadaMark wrote:
You are correct.

There is no real difference between HE* and Lossless Compressed. You might be able to see the most minute difference in the most extreme testing (I.e. a shadow push beyond what anyone would do in practice) and a lab inspection, but absolutely nobody would be able to tell them apart in a blind test or under any normal circumstances, and it would never affect your final result. When a good RAW converter supports it, I will be switching to HE* for everything. HE (no star) is a noticeable step down when you push the file but would still...Show more →

Agreed on all counts. I generally shoot HE*, but sometimes use HE if I'm going to be shooting long sequences. I never shoot Lossless Compressed, and uncompressed is a waste, as you've outlined.

Dec 21, 2022 at 02:06 PM

RoamingScott
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Z9 firmware 3.01

I've been poking my head out to see if any pelicans are cruising by today since it's the first sunny day in a week, but they must be huddled up for warmth somewhere

Interested to test BB AF-On with 3D tracking like I used to use before 3.0

Dec 21, 2022 at 02:10 PM

1bwana1
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Z9 firmware 3.01

RoamingScott wrote:
I've been poking my head out to see if any pelicans are cruising by today since it's the first sunny day in a week, but they must be huddled up for warmth somewhere

Interested to test BB AF-On with 3D tracking like I used to use before 3.0

Well we have plenty of extra Pelicans here in La Jolla if you get desperate. They are in their breeding colors right now as well.

Dec 21, 2022 at 07:00 PM

Alistair1
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Z9 firmware 3.01

Even Steve Perry seems to have reluctantly conceded that AF has improved.

Dec 21, 2022 at 08:06 PM

lukemeup
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Z9 firmware 3.01

Alistair1 wrote:
Even Steve Perry seems to have reluctantly conceded that AF has improved.

Looks like he also just replaced 500PF with 400 4.5.

Dec 21, 2022 at 09:23 PM

suteetat
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Z9 firmware 3.01

Went out to the same location as last week for kingfishers. My impression is that when the bird is closer, say, 10-12m or closer, AF seemed a bit faster at picking up bird in flight. At longer distance, 20m+,
I did not notice any improvement from before and Z9 still lost focus on tracking birds coming toward me but
I can still pick up the birds when it got closer sometimes. A friend was using A1 next tome and this is probably the only instance where A1 still beats Z9 often enough ie birds flying toward camera where it fills around 10% of the frame or less. Mind you, A1 also misses in this situation but keeper rate seems better. When the birds fill the frame more or going sideway, I have not notice any difference in hit rate between the two camera.

Dec 22, 2022 at 07:38 AM

Nikon1960
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Z9 firmware 3.01

Did the update. I need to test out the AF a bit more, but I will say that I was having great difficulty in focusing on squinty Long Eared Owls (the eye-AF was struggling to find the eyes). Sample image posted (full frame) of my target species, one of the shots which was sharp after I switched to single point focusing. Maybe not enough eye visible? Ended up ordering a Sony A7R V and the new "AI system" and a 400 GM to do a little comparison testing, we'll see how that goes. Have not tried birds in flight yet.

Also, found that the playback button frequently acts like a shutter button, that has been a persistent issue with the multiple different Z9s I've taken into the field. The problem seems to be popping up far more frequently than with firmware 3.0 and older. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong...?

I'm certainly extending quite a bit more patience to the Z9 this go-around, just because I like the built in TC of the 600mm so much. However, there is certainly a time where I'll have to consider going back to the systems that have better developed AF systems!

In the meantime, I'm completely resetting my Z9 and starting the setup again from scratch.

NIKON Z 9 NIKKOR Z 600mm f/4 TC VR S lens 600mm f/5.6 1/400s 2500 ISO 0.0 EV

Dec 29, 2022 at 04:44 AM

suteetat
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Z9 firmware 3.01

Nikon1960 wrote:
Did the update. I need to test out the AF a bit more, but I will say that I was having great difficulty in focusing on squinty Long Eared Owls (the eye-AF was struggling to find the eyes). Sample image posted (full frame) of my target species, one of the shots which was sharp after I switched to single point focusing. Maybe not enough eye visible? Ended up ordering a Sony A7R V and the new "AI system" and a 400 GM to do a little comparison testing, we'll see how that goes. Have not tried birds in flight yet.

Also,...Show more →

I don't know about other brand but I would not be surprised that Z9 struggled with eye focus in this case.
Basically, Z9 eye focus is looking for something round or circular for eyes. It is improving but with original firmware, I had a friend standing in front of a train with human face/eye detection on and sometimes the camera would focus on the train's headlight instead as it is a nice big round thing.

Also Nikon has a library of different birdshapes to help the camera detects various kinds of faces. The original firmware's library was not so extensive and I remembered Z9 was really struggling to find spotted owlet and it often focus on the spots rather than the eyes. Nikon has been expanding its library of bird shapes and is improving significantly but I was told that Canon still has the most extensive library of bird shapes in its AF AI. If I remember correctly photographylife has a article where someone was shooting in Equador with a few friends and mentioned that for Andean Cock of the Rock, R3 (may be R5?) was the only camera that identified the bird's face readily where as Z9 and A1 struggled to find the face.

Dec 29, 2022 at 06:33 AM

RoamingScott
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Z9 firmware 3.01

The playback button issue sounds like the vertical grip shutter is not locked. You squeeze it while pressing play.

Nikon1960 wrote:
Did the update. I need to test out the AF a bit more, but I will say that I was having great difficulty in focusing on squinty Long Eared Owls (the eye-AF was struggling to find the eyes). Sample image posted (full frame) of my target species, one of the shots which was sharp after I switched to single point focusing. Maybe not enough eye visible? Ended up ordering a Sony A7R V and the new "AI system" and a 400 GM to do a little comparison testing, we'll see how that goes. Have not tried birds in flight yet.

Also,...Show more →

Dec 29, 2022 at 08:26 AM

Nikon1960
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Z9 firmware 3.01

RoamingScott wrote:
The playback button issue sounds like the vertical grip shutter is not locked. You squeeze it while pressing play.

That may be the case. I'll disable it.

Dec 29, 2022 at 04:06 PM

Nikon1960
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Z9 firmware 3.01

suteetat wrote:
I don't know about other brand but I would not be surprised that Z9 struggled with eye focus in this case.
Basically, Z9 eye focus is looking for something round or circular for eyes. It is improving but with original firmware, I had a friend standing in front of a train with human face/eye detection on and sometimes the camera would focus on the train's headlight instead as it is a nice big round thing.

Also Nikon has a library of different birdshapes to help the camera detects various kinds of faces. The original firmware's library was not so extensive and...Show more →

I did see that article. I sold my Canon R3 and R5 before switching to the Z9, so I have gotten accustomed to the excellent eye focus of that ecosystem.

Dec 29, 2022 at 04:07 PM

arbitrage
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Z9 firmware 3.01

IME the Canon system has the most extensive database of birds/shapes/whatever and can detect the most amount of bird subjects.

I haven't tried the A7RV to see if the new system has brought it up to Canon level yet. I'm planning on picking up an A7RV to test it sometime soon.

I didn't have Z9 long enough (2 weeks) to test it on as many birds as I did the R5/R3 (7months) or the A1 (since release) but I felt the Z9 and A1 were similar in what they were detecting.

Jan 06, 2023 at 08:05 AM

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