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Archive 2022 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Juha Kannisto
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

JCH have removed their listing for the lens at some point, probably they are no longer expecting to get more stock. MKDirect might be the best bet for getting it in the future by making e-mail queries about availability since they note on their website that lenses that are marked as sold out might still be possible to be produced in the future based on requests... That store is also most directly associated with Miyazaki-san so if any further production takes place they should be well positioned to get more stock.

Aug 17, 2023 at 02:53 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

My MS Optics 36/1.3 Apollon copy is great optically and it is well-centered, but its alignment for the rangefinder was off. Adjusting my other MS Optics lenses was simple, but this one gave me a lot of trouble. I reached out to @yukosteel for help because of his experience and patience in dealing with intricate lens mechanics.

He managed to take it apart and figured out a method to align the lens with the rangefinder. It wasn't an easy job due to MS Optics decision to secure RF couple ring on focusing core with strong glue. However, after a lot of experimenting, he succeeded.

For more details about the disassembly of the MS Optics 36/1.3 Apollon lens, you can check out this article:
https://www.yukosteel.com/2023/08/disassembly-ms-optics-apollon-36mm-f13.html

Aug 17, 2023 at 08:02 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

I put the Leica 35/1.4 Steel Rim, Voigtlander 35/1.4, LLL 35/2 8-Element, and MS Optics 36/1.3 Apollon to a rendering test. I covered various distances, ranging from 0.7 meters to 3-5 meters. I even tried capturing scenes with backlight to see how these lenses handle flare.

The Apollon is one of my favorite 35mm lenses with classic rendering:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1824082

Sep 09, 2023 at 01:45 PM

j.liam
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Fred Miranda wrote:
My MS Optics 36/1.3 Apollon copy is great optically and it is well-centered, but its alignment for the rangefinder was off. Adjusting my other MS Optics lenses was simple, but this one gave me a lot of trouble. I reached out to @yukosteel@ for help because of his experience and patience in dealing with intricate lens mechanics.

He managed to take it apart and figured out a method to align the lens with the rangefinder. It wasn't an easy job due to MS Optics decision to secure RF couple ring on focusing core with strong glue. However, after a lot...Show more →

Seems like a lot of effort and cost. Is it worth it?

Sep 09, 2023 at 03:24 PM

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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

j.liam wrote:
Seems like a lot of effort and cost. Is it worth it?

I'm unsure if it's specific to my lens. Maybe they used excessive glue when attaching the RF cylinder ring to the helicoid. After Yuri separated both components, it's quite straightforward to fine-tune the lens for precise RF focusing. Essentially, you rotate the outer ring either counterclockwise (CCW) or clockwise (CW) based on the required adjustment.

Sep 09, 2023 at 05:20 PM

Juha Kannisto
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

I took my Apollon out for a long walk with my new Sony A7CII today, from Ebisu to Shimomeguro and back. It seems to work pretty well with A7CII as well.

Samples with A7CII, mostly wide open at f1.3 and f8, there might be a small number at f2 as well:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kzMFVZ3GU1vZiAbJ8

Since C1 Pro doesn't support A7CII yet, I can't process the Raw files for the time being and all shots are SOOC JPEGs from camera, but I used some Creative Styles while shooting to get some different looks as well.

Oct 14, 2023 at 07:55 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Juha Kannisto wrote:
I took my Apollon out for a long walk with my new Sony A7CII today, from Ebisu to Shimomeguro and back. It seems to work pretty well with A7CII as well.

Samples with A7CII, mostly wide open at f1.3 and f8, there might be a small number at f2 as well:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kzMFVZ3GU1vZiAbJ8

Since C1 Pro doesn't support A7CII yet, I can't process the Raw files for the time being and all shots are SOOC JPEGs from camera, but I used some Creative Styles while shooting to get some different looks as well.

Great samples Juha. So much personality in the rendering.

The Apollon 36/1.3 is becoming one of my preferred lenses from MS Optics. When you shoot it wide open, it provides an even more pronounced glow than my Leica 35/1.4 SR. So, when I'm looking for that special character in soft lighting conditions, this lens is my top choice. However, for most of my shots, I prefer to stop it down to around f/1.6. At that point, the lens shows slightly better correction for SA. It's remarkable how the lens can deliver various looks depending on the aperture you choose.

It looks like Nehemiah was able to find one in Japan!

Oct 14, 2023 at 11:52 AM

Sonnar-7
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Juha Kannisto wrote:
I took my Apollon out for a long walk with my new Sony A7CII today, from Ebisu to Shimomeguro and back. It seems to work pretty well with A7CII as well.

Samples with A7CII, mostly wide open at f1.3 and f8, there might be a small number at f2 as well:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kzMFVZ3GU1vZiAbJ8

Since C1 Pro doesn't support A7CII yet, I can't process the Raw files for the time being and all shots are SOOC JPEGs from camera, but I used some Creative Styles while shooting to get some different looks as well.

I am quite mesmerized by the rendering of that lens, that is quite delightful as Fred also said.
Is it somehow similar to the Sonnetar 50mm 1.3 in some regards? It feels quite different but I might be mistaken, the glow and the bokeh look like something else.
Are there lenses that match somehow that kind of rendering besides the Ms-Optics ones as it is such a challenge to find one.

I wish I could 3d print their lenses.

Oct 14, 2023 at 12:30 PM

tommmi
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Oh damn, now I want one

Oct 14, 2023 at 12:31 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Just a tripod test showing the 36/1.3 show very similar performance regarding FC on both a Leica thickness or Sony stock sensor stack. Bush was about 8 feet away. Crop is taken from the top right quadrant.

Really with CV, Zeiss or Leica could make an equally performance fast 35mm to accommodate either sensor stack. Then again, maybe with high performance demands it's not so easy.

Oct 14, 2023 at 01:35 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Sonnar-7 wrote:
I am quite mesmerized by the rendering of that lens, that is quite delightful as Fred also said.
Is it somehow similar to the Sonnetar 50mm 1.3 in some regards? It feels quite different but I might be mistaken, the glow and the bokeh look like something else.
Are there lenses that match somehow that kind of rendering besides the Ms-Optics ones as it is such a challenge to find one.

I wish I could 3d print their lenses.

I've posted a comparison showing lenses with similar rendering but I believe it's most similar to the 35/1.4 Lux.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1824082

The Apollon at f/1.6 is even more similar to the lux. What's great about the Apollon is that the aperture remains circular when stopping the lens down. Great aperture design!

Oct 14, 2023 at 01:42 PM

Juha Kannisto
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

I wish I could 3d print their lenses.

Since you asked about Sonnetar 50/1.3, I decided to go out with that one today

It was raining a lot in the morning but the rain subsided in the afternoon so I went to the nearby Arisugawa park and I took a bunch of shots with my A7CII & Sonnetar 50/1.3 mostly at wide open f1.3 and a few at f2. Sometimes the aperture on the Sonnetar moves a little bit when I'm focusing the lens so some might have also been taken at f1.4-1.5 or so.

New Sonnetar 50/1.3 samples (SOOC JPEGs from A7CII but I used VV2 Creative Look in-camera to add a lot of vibrancy and brightness to them (they would have looked rather dull with today's weather with Standard JPEG look):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XuYPfFXux2oUdZ4A8

I think Apollon has more glow and the image gets pretty soft towards the edges and outside of focus area wide open pretty fast, which looks quite nice in some scenes. Sonnetar 50/1.3 is not that extreme but I think it has its own charming rendering. The downside of Sonnetar 50/1.3 for me is that it never gets corner-to-corner sharp even when stopped down a lot whereas Apollon does get much better in the edges too by f8, so I usually use Sonnetar mostly for bokeh shots and for close to mid-range, but I think it really shines for certain types of photography too. From build style I think Apollon and Sonnetar have a lot in common. Sonnetar 50/1.3 is the lens that started my 2nd round of interest in MS-Optics lenses in 2022. I had got 4 of them back in 2014-2017 but gave up on them after some disappointments and from 2022 I got really exctited about them again after picking up the Sonnetar and giving it a go, so after that I picked up a lot more of them again.

Oct 15, 2023 at 07:47 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Fred Miranda wrote:
Great samples Juha. So much personality in the rendering.

The Apollon 36/1.3 is becoming one of my preferred lenses from MS Optics. When you shoot it wide open, it provides an even more pronounced glow than my Leica 35/1.4 SR. So, when I'm looking for that special character in soft lighting conditions, this lens is my top choice. However, for most of my shots, I prefer to stop it down to around f/1.6. At that point, the lens shows slightly better correction for SA. It's remarkable how the lens can deliver various looks depending on the aperture you choose.

It looks...Show more →

Thanks very much Fred! Apollon is probably my #1 favorite among my MS-Optics lenses as it's a good focal length for general walk-around use and the lens is so versatile from having lots of character at widest apertures to being quite well-behaved when stopped down, and the ability to focus pretty close is very useful. Also the handling is much better than with some of the MS-Optics lenses. I'm always happy with the results I'm getting with the lens

I'm now enjoying trying out all my favorite small & light FF lenses on my new A7CII one by one. Just wishing that I can start editing the Raw files soon enough too.

I am aware that Nehemiah managed to buy the Apollon after a long search

Oct 15, 2023 at 09:46 AM

Sonnar-7
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Juha Kannisto wrote:
Since you asked about Sonnetar 50/1.3, I decided to go out with that one today

It was raining a lot in the morning but the rain subsided in the afternoon so I went to the nearby Arisugawa park and I took a bunch of shots with my A7CII & Sonnetar 50/1.3 mostly at wide open f1.3 and a few at f2. Sometimes the aperture on the Sonnetar moves a little bit when I'm focusing the lens so some might have also been taken at f1.4-1.5 or so.

New Sonnetar 50/1.3 samples (SOOC JPEGs from A7CII but I used VV2...Show more →

Thank you so much Juha for these samples and explanations. The Sonnetar hits a lot a things I like in a lens, it’s a 50mm with fast aperture, glow, bubble bokeh sonnar type, swirl(not so common with sonnars), outlines and I was surprised by how sharp it is in the center.
I observe quite a different rendering with the 36mm 1.3, the glow is quite something else and the falloff so interesting. I lately discovered that I tend to prefer the bubble bokeh of some double gauss formula(I will need to change my name to double-gauss-7), the proliferation of little round bubbles that that lens has such as the Panchro or the Ms-Optics Petzval.
I do fancy the Sonnetar but the 36mm is a discovering.
I do like its rendering a bit better than the Sonnetar that I still consider like a strong performer to my taste adding to my Zeiss ZM Sonnar the glow and the swirl.
Now there is the Petz…
And also the hope of the coming LLL 35mm 1.4.

Oct 15, 2023 at 01:24 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

I did find a copy Juha! So far, I haven't really gotten the hang of the lens--I've not glued with it as much as I had though I would right away. But I have barely shot it, the light has been awful, and it's a character lens of high variability, which can take some time to learn.

Oct 16, 2023 at 09:10 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

@nehemiah,
How are you liking the 36/1.3 Apollon so far?

Oct 26, 2023 at 09:41 AM

nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

@fred

So far, I actually haven't really bonded with it. Wide open, the disparity from the center 2/3rds of the frame to the out 1/3 is pretty pronounced depending on subject and distance. I like the images a lot from .3 about a meter.

Images haven't really spoken to me so far, though I have liked some of them.

How are you finding yours? Will you be keeping it?

Oct 26, 2023 at 01:11 PM

j.liam
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

nehemiahphoto wrote:
@fred@

So far, I actually haven't really bonded with it. Wide open, the disparity from the center 2/3rds of the frame to the out 1/3 is pretty pronounced depending on subject and distance. I like the images a lot from .3 about a meter.

Images haven't really spoken to me so far, though I have liked some of them.

That’s a shame. Does seem that the MS lenses require great effort to understand their behavior. But is it worth it? As appealing as the tiny lenses are, I’ve hesitated getting one on account of that unpredictability and QC issues. They’re not cheap like the proliferating disposables out of the PRC.

Oct 26, 2023 at 03:01 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

Hmm, not really sure. I mean, depends on each shooters budget and preferences. It's a character lens...so it's just kind of if you like it/if you don't type vibe to me.

What are you tastes? What kind of character 35mm's or 50mm's do you like?

Oct 26, 2023 at 03:20 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · MS-Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 (Leica M-mount)

I like it a lot, but I often find myself using the 35/1.4 SR lens more frequently. The Apollon is considerably lighter though.
I particularly enjoy the Apollon when it's stopped down to around f/1.6. The great thing is that the aperture mechanism remains relatively rounded across the entire aperture range. I recommend giving it a try and seeing if you like the images it produces.

Oct 26, 2023 at 03:28 PM

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