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Archive 2022 · The controversy of 35mm

  
 
freaklikeme
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · The controversy of 35mm


I love English advertisements of Chinese lenses. I'm never sure if they're trying to attract or repel potential buyers. This one comes from 7artisans' website for their 35/1.4 WEN... https://7artisans.store/products/7artisans-m35mm-f1-4

I hope you can cope with it.

Screen Shot 2022-11-30 at 12.30.40 PM by 7artisans, on Flickr



Nov 30, 2022 at 03:22 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · The controversy of 35mm


All I know is their English is a lot better than my Chinese!


Nov 30, 2022 at 04:56 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · The controversy of 35mm


freaklikeme wrote:
I love English advertisements of Chinese lenses. I'm never sure if they're trying to attract or repel potential buyers. This one comes from 7artisans' website for their 35/1.4 WEN... https://7artisans.store/products/7artisans-m35mm-f1-4

I hope you can cope with it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52533792622_6612247c53_o.pngScreen Shot 2022-11-30 at 12.30.40 PM by 7artisans, on Flickr


You missed the best part!!







Nov 30, 2022 at 05:01 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · The controversy of 35mm


"Walk with the Light and Show the Strength between Reality and Fiction"

https://7artisans.store/products/m35mm-f-2-0-mark-ii-full-frame-lens-for-leica-m

Has anyone tested the new 35mm f2 lens from them? The old one was 7 elements in 5 groups, the new one is 8 elements in 7 groups.

$253 on sale from Pergear.



Nov 30, 2022 at 05:03 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · The controversy of 35mm





Nov 30, 2022 at 05:36 PM
bjhurley
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · The controversy of 35mm


Desmolicious wrote:
Has anyone tested the new 35mm f2 lens from them? The old one was 7 elements in 5 groups, the new one is 8 elements in 7 groups.


https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-7artisans-35mm-2-0-wen-m/



Nov 30, 2022 at 06:39 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · The controversy of 35mm


bjhurley wrote:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-7artisans-35mm-2-0-wen-m/


Thanks! Some crazy flare going on there! JJ Abrams would love this lens.



Nov 30, 2022 at 06:57 PM
d.s.
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · The controversy of 35mm




Desmolicious wrote:
Thanks! Some crazy flare going on there!


The macula must be bumpy.



Nov 30, 2022 at 10:08 PM
ytwong
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · The controversy of 35mm


I searched for their Chinese website and I 'm not sure what they are trying to say... (they seems try to throw every vague words in)

"Color is oily and transparent" I think they and trying to say color is rich and clear. "oily" is sort of a direct translation of lubricated, or moisturized (as in skin) (but I don't think we really like oily face)
"Viewing angle is excessively soft" ... they mean "3D pop" people discuss there (they use the term "layer", the transition is soft) . I don't know why "viewing angle" is mentioned(in Eng or Chin).

"linkage distance..." is about rf coupling.

"Macula" (i think) refer to color cast towards the corners, that common problem of RF wide angles on sensor.


If I want a boutique(-ish) lens I'd pick Voigtlander.





Nov 30, 2022 at 11:25 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · The controversy of 35mm


Fyi the 7a 35 f 2 mk2 ships w a lens hood. But it is that really crappy design where it attaches with a friction fit collar like the one on the 28 1.4.


Nov 30, 2022 at 11:26 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · The controversy of 35mm


ytwong wrote:
If I want a boutique(-ish) lens I'd pick Voigtlander.



To be fair the 7a lens is only $250, and I actually like the results. But I already have a bunch of 35s and $250 is a lot of film.

For some reason boutique-ish reminds me of the Kipon/Iberit/Handevision 35mm 2.4 lens I briefly had. Briefly because apparently they were all shipped with oily blades! Loved the results from that lens so it was a bit of a bummer:





Nov 30, 2022 at 11:39 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · The controversy of 35mm


Fred Miranda wrote:
You missed the best part!!


Hmm, oily and transparent. How can anyone refuse?



Dec 01, 2022 at 01:01 AM
zeroAska
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · The controversy of 35mm


Fred Miranda wrote:
You missed the best part!!


A more proper translation of "oily and transparent" from Chinese to English might be " subtle and crisp". Apparently there are quite some gaps between the two languages when it comes to photography terms. 7artisan could probably find some native marketing professionals to do the job

Edited on Dec 01, 2022 at 02:11 AM · View previous versions



Dec 01, 2022 at 01:24 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · The controversy of 35mm









I can live with the humorous English. I can't quite understand why they made the lens so wide in diameter. Look at the front and most of it is lens body relative to the small size of the optical elements. Plus it's 58mm long, which again for a 35/2 rangefinder lens is too long. And the large diameter just exacerbates whatever viewfinder blockage there is. Exceptions can potentially be made for high optical quality, such as the VM35 APO or ZM35/1.4, but even those are pushing it.

I read Bastian's review and have to say I agree that its rendering is pretty decent for 35mm... now it's got me thinking about it.

I have the older version 7A 35/2 that's based on the Sonnar design (apparently). Never really bonded with it in part due to poor veiling flare resistance that would suck the life out of the image. Some lenses can flare in a charming way, even veiling flare. But it doesn't, IMO. This new one has some pretty funky flare, which maybe could be used to effect in some instances. But I agree, why is it so difficult for these new lens companies to design even just normal flare resistance?



Dec 01, 2022 at 01:39 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · The controversy of 35mm


I sometimes wonder who can tell from a mid-size to large print in an exhibit if this was taken with a $4K Leica M lens or with a <$500 Chinese M-lens. The Chinese lenses are maybe not as "perfect" regarding flare and corner "sharpness", but for >90% of photos they are more than very good. Glad 7Artisans and TTArtisan give Leica, Zeiss, and also Voigtlander some run for the money!

Now I just wish they would make a much more affordable digital FF rangefinder M lens copy of Leica M. Wouldn't this be something



Dec 01, 2022 at 07:36 AM
Sauseschritt
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · The controversy of 35mm


Well ... many have tried to make a more affordable digital Leica M.

The problem is always the same: a Leica M sensor has to be able to handle steep angles of incidence of the light, especially for wide angle M lenses.

Steeper than regular sensors can handle.

And who hold the patents to create such sensors ? Why, yes. Leica.

Not to mention a small company would probably have to pay even higher prices for such a special sensor than Leica, because of even smaller series.

So the only doable way is really picking up a regular full frame mirrorless, possibly switch the sensor glas for something thinner, and avoid wide angle lenses.

Otherwise we'll be stuck with Leica for a while.



Dec 01, 2022 at 11:36 AM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · The controversy of 35mm


rscheffler wrote:
https://i.postimg.cc/RCT36gVX/Screen-Shot-2022-12-01-at-01-35-36.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/sxK1kg0t/Screen-Shot-2022-12-01-at-01-35-46.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/fTTVxYVZ/Screen-Shot-2022-12-01-at-01-36-51.jpg

I can live with the humorous English. I can't quite understand why they made the lens so wide in diameter. Look at the front and most of it is lens body relative to the small size of the optical elements. Plus it's 58mm long, which again for a 35/2 rangefinder lens is too long. And the large diameter just exacerbates whatever viewfinder blockage there is. Exceptions can potentially be made for high optical quality, such as the VM35 APO or ZM35/1.4, but even those are pushing it.

I read Bastian's review and have to say I agree that its rendering is
...Show more

The MrLeica review, to me, is more relevant. I really like the results but he does point out some really weird design flaws. The unnecessarily large body - perhaps big lenses seem more impressive? - results the lens in fouling the lens release button on a few Leica M bodies.
Such a bizarre oversight. You would think they would test an M mount lens on a variety of M mount bodies that they just keep to make sure the most basic stuff is ok.
Some of the flare patterns IMO are super! I have a bunch of 35s that already handle flare well, so this would be used for effect. Plus it ships with a hood if needed.

Only $250 on sale....



Dec 01, 2022 at 12:53 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · The controversy of 35mm


Sauseschritt wrote:
Well ... many have tried to make a more affordable digital Leica M.

The problem is always the same: a Leica M sensor has to be able to handle steep angles of incidence of the light, especially for wide angle M lenses.

Steeper than regular sensors can handle.

And who hold the patents to create such sensors ? Why, yes. Leica.

Not to mention a small company would probably have to pay even higher prices for such a special sensor than Leica, because of even smaller series.

So the only doable way is really picking up a regular full frame mirrorless, possibly switch the sensor
...Show more

The sensor thickness is a critical parameter, I agree. I am not so convinced that all this micro-lens sensor hype from Leica is so critical as well. The majority of f/2.0 or faster wide angle M lenses works very well for example on the much thicker Sony sensor glass from my own experience. Is it really so expensive to make a rangefinder array? Especially when assuming that parts can be assembled more with robotics and not by virgin hands . I still believe that > 50% of Leica camera price is just for the brand name.



Dec 01, 2022 at 01:14 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · The controversy of 35mm


To be clear, I didn't create this thread to mock the lens, just the marketing. I have the 35/1.4 WEN on loan currently to test drive on my bare-senor a7rII. I like the lens quite a bit and really like the bokeh in most scenarios, which is nicely balanced between foreground and aft. I do wish the aperture blades were rounder down to f/4 and I could live without the complex distortion, and those two things will probably have me looking elsewhere, but I'm impressed with what you get for the money.


Dec 01, 2022 at 11:19 PM
bjhurley
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · The controversy of 35mm


freaklikeme wrote:
To be clear, I didn't create this thread to mock the lens, just the marketing.


You might enjoy this example from the French national rail system, snapped at the Charles de Gaulle airport in 2014. I can only guess that whoever wrote this was transcribing text read by an incompetent translator over the phone; there's no other way you could mistranslate "écran" as "scream" instead of "screen." It was actually appropriate because I always want to scream when I try to navigate that horrible airport.

New scream by Brad Hurley, on Flickr



Dec 02, 2022 at 07:04 AM
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