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Archive 2022 · Sunday in the park.

  
 
Majestictone
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sunday in the park.


Good Day,

Portraiture's is a field of work that I don't normally do, but friends and family call on me to take some photos of them from time to time. I am curious to hear some thoughts on this set of images I took this past weekend. I would love to get better at this since I starting to enjoy doing these sessions....

Best Regards,

Albert




  ILCE-7RM2    Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 50mm F2 Aspherical lens    50mm    f/2.0    1/800s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-7RM2    Voigtlander MACRO APO-LANTHAR 65mm F2 Aspherical lens    65mm    f/4.0    1/125s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-7RM2    Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 50mm F2 Aspherical lens    50mm    f/4.0    1/160s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-7RM2    Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 50mm F2 Aspherical lens    50mm    f/3.5    1/100s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-7RM2    Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 50mm F2 Aspherical lens    50mm    f/2.0    1/640s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  




Nov 29, 2022 at 09:50 AM
Camperjim
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sunday in the park.


Parts of two photos stand out. The boy resting his head on the women in #2 has a natural expression and smile. The girl in #4 also stands out with a nice pose and smile. The rest are more of a documentary nature with not much expression and the subjects staring straight at the camera. You may disagree and have other goals for these photos but I greatly favor portraits that are less documentary and show more natural expression and something of the personality of the subjects.

The exposures are technically good; however, there is an unnatural feel to most of the images. Some appear to be composites. Either that or the lighting on the subjects seems inconsistent with the background lighting.



Nov 29, 2022 at 10:20 AM
EverLearning
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sunday in the park.


Majesticone, I don't normally take portraits either (unless it is a bird or (non-human) mammal), so take this with a grain of salt.

With the exception of the last photo, you captured the family with pleasing, happy expressions. I would say the biggest issue is the selection of setting for the photo session. You have poles out of shoulders, tree trunks out of heads and branches out of ears. Despite having a very fast lens that should produce soft backgrounds, for the most part there isn't enough separation from the subjects and the b/g. The first and last photos would benefit from fill flash to address the high contrast areas and all photos would probably benefit from fill flash in order to produce catch lights in the eyes. Fill flash would also make the subjects a little brighter without brightening the b/g, which is another way of creating separation from the b/g.

The first three photos have hot spots in the b/g that pull the eye away from the family. Looking at the second photo in particular, I wonder if changing your position by 90 degrees or so to the left wouldn't have cured two problems (the chairs around the table would also need to be changed by 90 degrees or so). First, it would have eliminated the tree coming out of the girl's head and second, it would have done away with the very bright spot in the b/g. Perhaps you considered this though, and there were even bigger challenges with changing the position like this.

A good ROT (Rule of Thumb) somebody once told me is that the more people in a group, the more photos you need to take in each arrangement/position; and not just linearly more. The chances of somebody having their eyes closed, their mouth open, scratching their nose, turning to say something to somebody, etc goes up exponentially. I don't see any of these issues in your photos, so all good there!

Taking posed, formal photos of people is more difficult than it might seem at first glance. As somebody into nature/wildlife, it is something I never found great joy in. I remember years ago in a camera club, a fellow who did a lot of wildlife and landscape was asked (in the context of wedding photography and portrait photography) if he ever shot people. His response was "only if they really annoy me."!

Don

BTW, I really like the pose in the fourth photo; especially that of the young girl. She is joyfully, lovingly hugging her mother (?). Very touching.



Nov 29, 2022 at 10:33 AM
sbeme
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sunday in the park.


Not a portrait guy either (hopefully Karen, aka Auntipode) will chime in.
I think Don has summarized the key issue: attention to background crop.
It's easy, when caught in the moment, trying to get everyone still and looking at the camera, to miss framing issues: trees from the head, inconveniently located poles, cut off feet.
The first almost offers the option of using those two poles to frame the family, although i would prefer a more natural background. The wider crop accentuates the space outside of the family and the poles and the image can be improved by cropping tighter.
Moving the couple a bit to the side in the third image might have eliminated the pole and kept a non-distracting background. Cropping a bit from the bottom, might help a bit with the cut-off of their legs/feet, but it is still a compromise.

Scott



Nov 29, 2022 at 11:54 AM
Shasoc
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sunday in the park.


I am like you. Portraiture's is a field of work that I don't normally do, as well. However, there are some “principles” that can be applied to most genres of photography.

I think the photos are all well taken, but there are some areas where they could be improved.
First is lighting. If you decide to do some portraiture outside, you may want to choose a time of the day when the lighting is not harsh. Golden hours offer the best quality of light.

Another area for improvement would be the bg. The bg can add or subtract to an image. As said buildings and poles tend to be distracting and taking away from the subject(s) and you should look at ways to leave them out of the frame. Blurring the bg will make the subject stand out more and the bg less intrusive when not supportive.

In some images, the third and fourth, the feet are cut out. Not big deal, but if you want to leave the feet out make it clear to the viewer you want them out the frame, otherwise he may think you just missed them.

Framing, or cropping, is a personal matter. As I see it in your images there is some space where the images can be cropped tighter. That would get rid of some of the distracting bg, while at the same time getting the viewer closer to the subject.

If I had to pick one would be the second image. Tighter frame, some bg blur. The hot spot on the top right can be reduced in PP. You can do more in PP, like blur, darkening and de-sat the bg according to your like.

Here is an idea that may improve an image in PP. Just a quick edit hoping that this will help. At the end will be always your taste and preferences that will guide you to the final decision.

Socrate








Nov 29, 2022 at 01:04 PM
grandmas
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sunday in the park.


You have been given some very good advise. Picking the background is the first thing you want to think about doing portraits, the simpler the better.

If these are the images I had to work with, this is what a couple of them might look like.

Edited on Apr 18, 2023 at 12:22 AM · View previous versions



Nov 29, 2022 at 03:26 PM
beavens
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sunday in the park.


I've noticed in portraiture that you want pop and separation from the background. If you don't put yourself in a place to succeed in this regard then you just end up with high-res snapshots. Don't get me wrong - the family still might love them, but I assume you want to try to make some real standout photos.

Try to place your subjects so that there is significant distance from the background. This will allow you to choose an aperture that will deliver enough of a focal plane where *every* subject is in focus (a must for group pics IMO) while still providing punch from the blurred/pleasing scene behind them. This will also minimize the "stuff" you sometimes get growing out of the heads of your subjects.

Life will be easier if you have some ideas that you want to use for poses before you meet up with the subjects. If you can, arrive ahead of time to scope out the area and make things for FOR you instead of AGAINST you. You might also find that the subjects have a few ideas that they really want to try to capture.

Do your best to make the subjects feel natural, comfortable and at-ease. This can be tricky is it really depends on the personality of both the photographer and the subjects, but practice makes perfect. If you can lighten the mood then it'll show in the pics.

I wouldn't suggest shooting high-speed continuous, but don't be afraid to rally off bursts. With these kind of sessions you can't magically make more photos appear, so best to cover your bases.

The last pic if the most successful IMO in almost all aspects.

Socrate does a great job is illustrating more of the look you want to achieve in-camera, and also gives you an idea of how you can massage some things to your advantage in post.

The reworked crop by grandmas is crazy awkward, both in terms of where the bodies are cut off and because of dad/kids being at different heights. When working with people you always need to be cognizant of limbs when cropping - cutting things off at joints almost always come off strange.

My $0.02!

Jeff




Nov 29, 2022 at 06:40 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sunday in the park.


Portraiture ... a discipline that is never as easy as the good ones make it look. Plenty of good points already.

Background separation ... +1 for getting some "space" between the subjects and the BG. Unless you're shooting with some fast glass and shooting "along the wall", it is kinda tough to get the separation when folks are backed up against stuff. Background selection is part of this overall.

Mood / Engagement ... +1 for getting folks to relax. Facial muscle tension reveals itself in pics. Getting folks to relax their facial muscle tension is helpful. Humor and laughing, etc. has a way of changing that muscle tension. Not the only way, some folks are more prone to get the subject to talk about something that they are comfortable with, etc. as a means of "relaxing" them. Probably one of the most under-rated aspects of those new to portraiture, imo. I tend to think this is the Achille's Heel of portraiture that makes / breaks it for folks. I say that, because I never could get a grip on this part of portraiture very well. Kids and dogs ... all day long. Tense adults ... I stink at it. Happy go lucky folks are easy, but those tense ones take a special touch, again, imo.

Lighting ... lighting that doesn't make the subjects "fight" with the light to get their facial expression relaxed.

As to posing / positioning. Lots of ways to go about. I'll defer that to others / books / articles etc.

So ... yeah, there are a few pieces to the puzzle all going on at once. And the wild card is "people" Gotta be careful not to "wear them out" (re-insert facial tension), and get folks on the same page, yet keep 'em relaxed. Hey ... if it was easy, everyone could do it.

That said, I think that the overall set (cherry picking different aspects) shows evidence of you being able to get comfortable with this kind of shooting. Keep at it, and you're confidence will rise, and that will let you get relaxed and smoother working with folks. That smooth workflow thing is another piece of keeping that facial tension at bay, and everyone on the same page.

Like anything ... there's more to it than meets the eye at first blush. But if you got these just flying by the seat of your pants ... I figure you'll do just fine going forward, too.




Nov 29, 2022 at 08:26 PM
Majestictone
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sunday in the park.


Camperjim wrote:
Parts of two photos stand out. The boy resting his head on the women in #2 has a natural expression and smile. The girl in #4 also stands out with a nice pose and smile. The rest are more of a documentary nature with not much expression and the subjects staring straight at the camera. You may disagree and have other goals for these photos but I greatly favor portraits that are less documentary and show more natural expression and something of the personality of the subjects.

The exposures are technically good; however, there is an unnatural feel to most of
...Show more

Hey CJ

I truly appreciate the feedback.



Dec 02, 2022 at 10:19 AM
Majestictone
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sunday in the park.


EverLearning wrote:
Majesticone, I don't normally take portraits either (unless it is a bird or (non-human) mammal), so take this with a grain of salt.

With the exception of the last photo, you captured the family with pleasing, happy expressions. I would say the biggest issue is the selection of setting for the photo session. You have poles out of shoulders, tree trunks out of heads and branches out of ears. Despite having a very fast lens that should produce soft backgrounds, for the most part there isn't enough separation from the subjects and the b/g. The first and last photos would benefit
...Show more

Thank You Don,

Normally when these types of sessions, I rather take candid and non assuming captures and I did manage to get those as well, I am in the process of still editing this session,,

Thanks
Albert



Dec 02, 2022 at 10:22 AM
Majestictone
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Sunday in the park.


sbeme wrote:
Not a portrait guy either (hopefully Karen, aka Auntipode) will chime in.
I think Don has summarized the key issue: attention to background crop.
It's easy, when caught in the moment, trying to get everyone still and looking at the camera, to miss framing issues: trees from the head, inconveniently located poles, cut off feet.
The first almost offers the option of using those two poles to frame the family, although i would prefer a more natural background. The wider crop accentuates the space outside of the family and the poles and the image can be improved by cropping tighter.
Moving the couple a
...Show more

Thank you for the feedback Scott, I truly appreciate it. I am still in the process of editing this session and will post the final images for further CC

Thanks
Albert



Dec 02, 2022 at 10:24 AM
Majestictone
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Sunday in the park.


grandmas wrote:
You have been given some very good advise. Picking the background is the first thing you want to think about doing portraits, the simpler the better.

If these are the images I had to work with, this is what a couple of them might look like.


Thank You



Dec 02, 2022 at 10:25 AM
Majestictone
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Sunday in the park.


beavens wrote:
I've noticed in portraiture that you want pop and separation from the background. If you don't put yourself in a place to succeed in this regard then you just end up with high-res snapshots. Don't get me wrong - the family still might love them, but I assume you want to try to make some real standout photos.

Try to place your subjects so that there is significant distance from the background. This will allow you to choose an aperture that will deliver enough of a focal plane where *every* subject is in focus (a must for group pics IMO) while
...Show more

Thank You Jeff,

I was a bit torn between what lens I wanted to use, I did use my 85 1.8 at this same location for a Senior session earlier this year and I do feel I got the ideal BG separation I was looking for but I wanted to put my new C/V 50 2.0 APO to the test, I do feel like I nailed some of what I was trying achieve and I'm still in the process of PP and will post some of the final images for some more CC.


Thanks
Albert



Dec 02, 2022 at 10:41 AM
Majestictone
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Sunday in the park.


RustyBug wrote:
Portraiture ... a discipline that is never as easy as the good ones make it look. Plenty of good points already.

Background separation ... +1 for getting some "space" between the subjects and the BG. Unless you're shooting with some fast glass and shooting "along the wall", it is kinda tough to get the separation when folks are backed up against stuff. Background selection is part of this overall.

Mood / Engagement ... +1 for getting folks to relax. Facial muscle tension reveals itself in pics. Getting folks to relax their facial muscle tension is helpful. Humor and laughing, etc. has a
...Show more

Thanks RB,

When I do these sessions, quite few of the images I capture are of candid moments which turn out the best. I truly agree with you on the "everyone could do it"

What aspect I often wonder about is when I see some collections of let's say wedding or family reunion sessions and there is SO MUCH space between the sky and the subjects which to me baffles me and not mention that Instagram effect which really doesn't do it for me... Different strokes for different folks...

For some odd reason, I don't know why I get a kick on doing these sessions but there is just some many sunrises and sunsets I can do out here in West Texas.

Time will tell if I continue down this path but I truly do appreciate your input.

Thanks
Albert



Dec 02, 2022 at 10:52 AM
beavens
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Sunday in the park.


Majestictone wrote:
Thank You Jeff,

I was a bit torn between what lens I wanted to use, I did use my 85 1.8 at this same location for a Senior session earlier this year and I do feel I got the ideal BG separation I was looking for but I wanted to put my new C/V 50 2.0 APO to the test, I do feel like I nailed some of what I was trying achieve and I'm still in the process of PP and will post some of the final images for some more CC.


Thanks
Albert


It can be a fine line to walk! Group shots always add more difficulty/variables than if you're just looking at 1-3 people. Nailing focus across the group is more important than bg separation IMO, and Socrate provided an example of how you can use some added PP to nudge your shots in whichever direction you're trying to go.

If you feel like you're getting into this aspect of photography and want more practice then I've found that between friends/family/neighbors that there are no shortage of volunteers when it comes to subjects.

The more you start shooting people the more you'll subconsciously be running through "prechecks" before finally pressing the shutter. You will start catching stray hairs, wardrobe issues, posing corrections and background competition/distractions. This will eventually make your life in post much easier!

Jeff



Dec 02, 2022 at 11:24 AM
Majestictone
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Sunday in the park.


beavens wrote:
It can be a fine line to walk! Group shots always add more difficulty/variables than if you're just looking at 1-3 people. Nailing focus across the group is more important than bg separation IMO, and Socrate provided an example of how you can use some added PP to nudge your shots in whichever direction you're trying to go.

If you feel like you're getting into this aspect of photography and want more practice then I've found that between friends/family/neighbors that there are no shortage of volunteers when it comes to subjects.

The more you start shooting people the more you'll subconsciously be
...Show more


Thank You Jeff

Great insight... I'm always scouting for new test subjects



Dec 02, 2022 at 02:24 PM





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