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Archive 2022 · R5 mkII rumors, questions

  
 
Jeff
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


patotts wrote:
Canon needs a R5ii to address some of the R5 short-comings like ... the inexplicably complicated switch between photo and video...


I don't know if it's as much complicated as it is inane. I still can't quickly remember how to get out of video mode when I accidentally enable it (I rarely shoot video, and I'm often shooting in the dark), and there is no visual indication on the switches on the back of the camera. And yet, we still have a Rate button (which, ironically, after 20 years of using Canon digital cameras, I've finally found a use for!).

I'd remove the video in my R5 if I could, and hope the R5II solves the overheating issues by paring the video capabilities of the camera. With the R5C, I just can't see how having cutting edge video that negatively affects other areas of operation of the R5 (II) makes any sense whatsoever.

What we really need is the mirrorless successor to the 5Ds (no, the R5 wasn't it), and I'm left scratching my head as to why Canon would update the R5 before releasing a high-MP R variant. The 5Ds proved there was a market for it.



Nov 30, 2022 at 11:14 AM
Dilemma
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


patotts wrote:
the inexplicably complicated switch between photo and video


Assign it a button. Any button. You can switch between photo and video with taking your eye away from the viewfinder.



Dec 01, 2022 at 08:02 PM
garyvot
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


mdees88 wrote:
According to Duades video, the readout speed of the R6 was 19.7ms, not 30.6ms. It showed the R7 at 31.3ms, and the R5 at 15.5ms.

If the R6II is 18ms, it's only 9% faster than the R6.

Duades video showed the R3 at 5.5ms. I'm not sure where exactly he got this info from though...


I'm not sure where Duade gets his numbers, honestly, even though I quoted one of them. The full frame redout speed I quoted for the R6 came from a reputable cinema test site:

https://www.cined.com/canon-eos-r6-lab-test-rolling-shutter-dynamic-range-and-latitude/

However--the readout speed for still photos using electronic shutter mode may in fact be different, possibly faster.

I think it would be helpful for manufacturers to start quoting this specification, as they do other metrics of camera performance.




Dec 01, 2022 at 09:09 PM
patotts
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


Dilemma wrote:
Assign it a button. Any button. You can switch between photo and video with taking your eye away from the viewfinder.


I no longer have the camera so it is moot, but regardless, the way it was designed was a real headscratcher. How on earth did that get through user testing?




Dec 01, 2022 at 09:45 PM
JaimitoFrog
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


Standard HDMI port

Sounds like a fake rumor. lol.



Dec 01, 2022 at 11:48 PM
EB-1
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


Standard HDMI, 2x USB-C,2x CFe is going to fit in R5 form factor

EBH



Dec 02, 2022 at 12:46 AM
EB-1
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · R5 mkII rumors, questions



EverLearning wrote:
I don’t have a 500mm; v II or otherwise. At this point it makes sense for me to wait for the better, shorter and substantially lighter RF500mm. I like hiking and i like hand-holding my camera for wildlife. I use a mrjangear lens carrier to carry my gear when I’m not actively shooting. A light(ish) 500mm could be handholdsble for me for many years to come before i settle into the rocking chair.


I'm too old to wait, and have been using 500/4 IS and IS IIs 18 years. I prefer a tripod and gimbal where possible, but I do organized trips in various places, not the states. Have you used the 500/5.6 PF or new 400/4.5 Z Nikkor? They present great options if you are weight limited.

Waiting for any lens or camera is not the best plan. There will usually be better equipment, but sometimes a generation should be skipped. I hope that is not the case with the R5 II. Everyone is crazy about the ES speed, but no mention of bit depth.

EBH



Dec 02, 2022 at 01:44 AM
EverLearning
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


EBH, i shoot canon so, no, I haven’t tried the lenses you mentioned.

Waiting can be (and is in this case) a frustrating game but the potential reward is great enough that i will do that. That was my plan when I bought the R5 and it still makes sense (for me) today.



Dec 02, 2022 at 04:16 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


jedibrain wrote:
Saw this today https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-eos-r5-mark-ii-coming-in-q2-2023-cr2/

New 61MP CMOS BSI sensor
Dual DIGIC X processor
30 FPS electronic shutter with tracking / 12 FPS mechanical shutter
Same 8-stop IBIS
New High Resolution mode similar to pixel shift shooting found on Sony/Fujifilm
2x/4x/8x digital tele-convertor
Same Dual Pixel CMOS AF II from EOS R3 and EOS R6 Mark II
Internal 8K 60p video recording (8K RAW video spec to be confirmed)
Internal 4K 30p/60p/120p video recording (all by oversampling)
FHD 240p video recording
Focus breathing correction for video
New overheat prevention design similar to EOS R6 Mark II, at least 40min for 8K video, and over
60 min for 4K video
Dual CFexpress type B card slot
Standard
...Show more

I am primarily focussed on landscape and big animals (bears, wolf, moose).

For my landscape:
- 60 mpx without AA would cause ~15% more ability to crop or print bigger vs R5 - that's good.
- it will again be a disappointment if they put the AA in it - but they likely will because of its video features. With the AA it will likely just be 5% more resolution than the 5DSR - let's hope for no aa. Combining 60v45 and no AA would increase the resolution by more than 15%.
- Weight matters - the R5 is about 750g. For hiking /backpacking, I want this low. If they increase I would not buy it.
- The high resolution mode has the prospect of being handy but I doubt it will help me. In order to be useful for me it will have to turn the multiple shots into a 16b tiff in camera and save them. I rarely am satisfied with the dynamic range and always shoot AEB and blend. Thus I need high resolution tiff x 3. I know I can do this in software but I am already spending too much time processing. So, it has promise but it will likely not deliver (like Nikon and Sony) because of poor implementation (just like Sony).
- Higher screen resolution is good if they fix the software to make it useful. Eg live view focussing x 16x.
- It would be nice if they had a native iso 50 or 25 - not likely - easy to do but they have lost their way on video
- It would be nice if they had a >30s exposure that did not require bulb - not likely - easy to do but they have lost their way on video

For Big Animals:
- Bears are usually early or late. And when I find them in day, dynamic range is essential. BSI could be good to give more dynamic range at iso6400 (so I don't blow out sky when exposing for dark animals) but in the past BSI has not done much (Sony) for iso6400. Currently Canon is pretty close to Sony at iso 6400 without BSI. Let's hope Canon has a better outcome.
- 12 fps is as much as I need. I have never used the 20fps.
- 1 cfexpress card is as much as I need. And the sd I have is fast enough that I barely notice it being slower on R5
- 60mpx is better than 45mpx but not much (15%). This is okay but does not move my dial.
- the digital zoom already exists re 1.6x mode - don't see what more I get from what is described.
- I am not likely to buy R5II for my big animals unless IBIS really delivers at iso 6400.

Let's hope the next iteration puts some attention to still photography. That said the R5 that I have on balance is the best camera I have seen (d850 was good but it does not do af nearly as well, 5dsr for strictly still is /was better but heavy and it did not do wildlife as well). So my R5 whining is just whining. I am happy to stick with it until R5III or if I am surprised by R5II.

Edited on Dec 03, 2022 at 01:30 PM · View previous versions



Dec 03, 2022 at 09:49 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


Regarding AA filtering and image detail: Back with Canon introduced the 5Ds and 5DsR, folks were still very concerned about the prospects for aliasing if AA filtering were to be eliminated. For this reason, as Nikon did with their D800, Canon did with the 5Ds bodies providing the 5Ds with the familiar AA filtering (to assuage concerns about aliasing) and the 5DsR that cancelled the AA filtering (to assuage concerns of less-than-maximum sharpness).

At the time I was trying to decide whether to get the 5DsR or the 5Ds. I got my hands on some carefully shot raw test images from both camera and put them to the test. It was true that if I began with raw files at the same default settings and looked really, really closely... the 5DsR files appeared to be a tiny bit sharper.

However, that is a pretty meaningless test, since that's not how we use post-processing workflow. Instead we optimize our workflow for whatever camera we us, working to get the best result possible from its files. So I did just that, ending up with somewhat different optimized sharpening settings for the 5Ds and the 5DsR. (Basically, I had to sharpen the 5Ds files just a little bit "more.")

Once I did this, the difference was so tiny as to be meaningless. If I looked at 100% and larger files side by side on a large computer screen I could sometimes convince myself that the 5DsR files were maybe, possibly, arguably, sort of a tiny, tiny be sharper on the screen... but completely indistinguishable in real world prints.

In the end, I decided it didn't really matter. Basically both were excellent, and any differences in the finished images were meaningless. I went with the 5DsR since, well, I had to pick something.

So, as much as I feel that AA filtering is pretty much unnecessary on high resolution cameras, if Canon decides to apply minimal AA filtering that improves video... I don't really care. :-)



Dec 03, 2022 at 11:05 AM
Jesse Evans
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · R5 mkII rumors, questions



Scott Stoness wrote:
I am primarily focussed on landscape and big animals (bears, wolf, moose).

For my landscape:
- 60 mpx without AA would cause ~15% more ability to crop or print bigger vs R5 - that's good.
- it will again be a disappointment if they put the AA in it - but they likely will because of its video features. With the AA it will likely just be 5% more resolution than the 5DSR - let's hope for no aa. Combining 60v45 and no AA would increase the resolution by more than 15%.
- Weight matters - the R5 is about 750g. For hiking
...Show more

Have you actually used an R5? You think it doesn’t have focus magnification or a 2 second timer?

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART178135

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART178267

The R5 is much better for manual focus landscapes as you can magnify to 15x IN THE EVF, which is extraordinarily helpful in bright situations.



Dec 03, 2022 at 12:56 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


Jesse Evans wrote:
Have you actually used an R5? You think it doesn’t have focus magnification or a 2 second time?

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART178135

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART178267

The R5 is much better for manual focus landscapes as you can magnify to 15x IN THE EVF, which is extraordinarily helpful in bright situations.


Okay after posting this I went back and fiddled with my R5 (of 2 years) and found the 2 s time delay and realized I could shut off the 2s beep and blink. I take that back. I normally use the wired / tried it quickly and could not find and gave up. I fixed in my post so I don't get corrected a bunch more times - thanks.

I also flipped back and forth between 5DSR and R5 for a while this AM and found that the 5dsr features were just in different spots and I was used to them at the time. Now that I am used to R5, they are pretty even and when I went back to 5DSR, it was hard to remember again. Familiarity! is the key.



Dec 03, 2022 at 01:26 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


gdanmitchell wrote:
Regarding AA filtering and image detail: Back with Canon introduced the 5Ds and 5DsR, folks were still very concerned about the prospects for aliasing if AA filtering were to be eliminated. For this reason, as Nikon did with their D800, Canon did with the 5Ds bodies providing the 5Ds with the familiar AA filtering (to assuage concerns about aliasing) and the 5DsR that cancelled the AA filtering (to assuage concerns of less-than-maximum sharpness).

At the time I was trying to decide whether to get the 5DsR or the 5Ds. I got my hands on some carefully shot raw test images
...Show more

I would rather sharpen less and have to sharpen less. It's just easier. And most measurements I have seen indicate no aa is achieves more resolution - but this is on straight lines so as you say its hard to notice.



Dec 03, 2022 at 01:34 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


Scott Stoness wrote:
I would rather sharpen less and have to sharpen less. It's just easier. And most measurements I have seen indicate no aa is achieves more resolution - but this is on straight lines so as you say its hard to notice.


Unless you don't sharpen in one case and do in the other (not likely with raw files, right?) how "much" you sharpen in immaterial if the end result is the same. I don't recall the specific settings I used with the two cameras, but my recollection is that it was just a matter of slightly different settings for amount, radius, and perhaps details. This is analogous to the way I use different settings with different types and brands of cameras — for example, I used to use different settings back in the 5D era, and I use different settings now when I shoot my Fujifilm system.

In any case, my point was that if Canon applies a small amount of AA filtering to a hypothetical R5II, in the end I don't think it would make a consequential difference.

By the way, back when we had a choice between versions of cameras that did and did not apply AA filtering, after I realized that it didn't make any significant difference in the photographic end result I ended up getting the camera...

... that doesn't apply AA filtering.

Given a choice, I didn't think it made sense to apply a process to the images that wasn't adding anything of value. That's also in line with my belief that, at least for stills photography, there's hardly any good reason to apply AA filtering on today's high resolution sensor cameras.

Bottom line: While I'd prefer no AA filtering, I don't see that weak AA filtering degrades the images in a meaningful way.

Edited on Dec 05, 2022 at 11:03 AM · View previous versions



Dec 03, 2022 at 04:37 PM
jedibrain
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


Scott Stoness wrote:
- The high resolution mode has the prospect of being handy but I doubt it will help me. In order to be useful for me it will have to turn the multiple shots into a 16b tiff in camera and save them. I rarely am satisfied with the dynamic range and always shoot AEB and blend. Thus I need high resolution tiff x 3. I know I can do this in software but I am already spending too much time processing. So, it has promise but it will likely not deliver (like Nikon and Sony) because of poor implementation
...Show more

I have not heard much about this feature. One video only mentioned it was a gimick. But it is NOT the same as crop mode. On the R5/R6, you get an APSc crop and resulting loss of MP. On The R6II, it seems that it is actually trying to upres the optical crop back to a full size/full frame image, and JPG only. So possibly like canon's own gigapixel AI in there? We'll see. I think it was Duade on Youtube who mentioned it as a gimmick. I assume for most of us it would be better to retain the Raw, crop and upres in post. But if you need a jpg in a hurry, maybe useful in that case.

-Brian



Dec 05, 2022 at 08:01 AM
rscheffler
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


I just tried the digital TC on the R6II. Yes, it scales the crop back up to 24MP. I guess it'll depend on the subject content but it wasn't as bad as I expected. Viewing the full 4x TC image on a Retina display looks good. Yes, when zoomed in at pixel level the image lacks fine details, which is no surprise. It's definitely usable in a pinch. And yes, it's a Jpeg-only feature (didn't check if it's available in HEIC). As you suggest, I think this is intended for those who have to deliver Jpegs without time for post production. Or have no inclination to further process their images.

The 1.6x crop mode gives you a straight ~9MP crop. No image scaling.



Dec 05, 2022 at 10:54 AM
koenkooi
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


rscheffler wrote:
I just tried the digital TC on the R6II. Yes, it scales the crop back up to 24MP. I guess it'll depend on the subject content but it wasn't as bad as I expected. Viewing the full 4x TC image on a Retina display looks good. Yes, when zoomed in at pixel level the image lacks fine details, which is no surprise. It's definitely usable in a pinch. And yes, it's a Jpeg-only feature (didn't check if it's available in HEIC). As you suggest, I think this is intended for those who have to deliver Jpegs without time for post
...Show more

I think the virtual TC mode is useful when using the camera as a spotting scope, it's way too easy to exit the magnification mode on current bodies.
I use the 1.6x crop mode with the 100-500L to show the distant points of interest to my kids when visiting outlook points.



Dec 06, 2022 at 03:09 AM
hsiunghsiung
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


My wishlist would mainly be:

Internal 8K 60p video recording (in case I really want to capture scenes in high quality, but will prob rarely use)
Internal 4k 60p downsampled from 8k 60p like the R5c
Dual CFexpress type B card slot (so both my cards can be at the same capacity vs my 512gb+128gb combo atm)
better dynamic range like r5c
better low light vid/stills if possible

Already satisfied with R5 for:
45mp
IBIS
4k 60p isnt bad
body size / ergonomics



Jan 06, 2023 at 05:44 PM
Imagemaster
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


For what it is worth from petapixel.com:

The Canon R5 II was originally speculated to arrive this year, but a new report claims that isn’t happening. In lieu of a new camera body, Canon will instead be bringing new functionality to the original R5 via a “major” firmware update.

PetaPixel sources originally indicated that the R5 II would be coming at the beginning of this year, but that launch got pushed back. One source went so far as to claim the launch of the R6 II was actually meant to include the R5 II as well, but timelines at Canon Inc. changed late in 2022.

A new report from
...Show more



Mar 07, 2023 at 01:23 AM
EB-1
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · R5 mkII rumors, questions


It will be rather pathetic if by the end of Canon has not one camera newer than 2020 with more than 24 MP. Hopefully Canon will lose enough customers to Nikon to rethink their future strategy, especially if the Z8 is very good.

EBH



Mar 07, 2023 at 01:37 AM
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