p.1 #1 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
At the moment I‘m using a Sony A7III. Every once in a while I start thinking about Leica again.
Currently about the SL2-S (Reporter).
I am well aware of the fact that this Leica‘s auto focus is inferior compared to the one from Sony (maybe even my old A7III?).
I just learned that there has been a firmware update (3.0) for the SL2-S (and 4.0 for the SL2) which introduced eye focus for this camera. However, I haven‘t been able to find much information (if at all) about how reliable/capable this eye af works.
For the normal af: I came from Pentax (K-1) and I never had any issues with its af. I‘m mostly shooting when traveling. Street, portraits etc. so no action. However, for portraits I fell in love with my Sony‘s eye auto focus and would never want to do without again.
So what about the one Leica offers now? Capable enough or rather very limited?
p.1 #2 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
I switched from the Sony A7RIV. I find the Eye-AF / focus in general very good for AF-S. For AF-C, as long as there is not significant movement (someone running) it is fine, but Sony is clearly better for this.
p.1 #4 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
For images in which the subjects dont move much and you only have one or two subjects it has worked great. This in AFS and AFC. The issue is when they move very fast, or when you have many subjects, the eye detect starts to jump from one subject to another its just unsuable.... there is no way to tell the camera were eye detect should work, (like in the panasonic) or to lock the face, seems the software was design by not a photogrpaher.
p.1 #5 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
I use both - the AF-S is just more consistent and apparently AF-C only focuses on the first frame if you're using mid or high continuous.
My use case changed vs when I bought the A7RIV - I went from shooting mostly landscape to more friends and family. I felt like I was constantly working to get skintones right with the Sony. I picked up an M10 and loved how I could get something I was satisfied with very quickly. I found I was using the Sony less and wanted to try something else.
I've been quite satisfied so far - I picked up the bundle with the 24-70. The AF isn't quite as good as Sony, but is fine for my uses - primarily friends and family. The camera is larger, but not uncomfortably so. I can easily use my other Leica M lenses with coding. The file sizes are smaller, which also makes editing faster. The colors at high ISOs are also very good. I'd probably like something in the 30-40MP range if possible to have some flexibility, but 60 was overkill for me.
If I had stayed more with landscapes, I probably would have stuck with Sony for the 60MP sensor. The SL2 has 47, but is not a BSI - one of the reasons I wanted the SL2-S since I do a lot of low light. The SL3 will probably get that sensor though. There are generally more and cheaper lens options for the Sony. The L-mount has good options from Sigma and Panasonic, and incredible options from Leica. However, Sony has some lenses that are probably a tad better than Sigma and Panasonic, while smaller, and significantly less money than the Leica lenses (35 1.4 GM vs Sigma 35 1.4),
I would suggest visiting a store to try the SL or renting if you dont have a store nearby.
p.1 #6 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
@wdshuck: Thank you very much for your comprehensive reply. That helps me a lot!
Actually, my user case would be quite similar to yours most of the time (shooting friends, family etc.). I don‘t shoot landscape. Travel + people. That‘s bascially it. Sometimes food photography. As I said, I never complained about the autofocus of my Pentax cameras.
However, I have to say that from time to time I took pictures of children playing and it‘s fascinating how (even my old Sony A7III) managed to do the job. But then again, that‘s rather rarely the case and I could surely do without it.
I do have the Tamron 35-150mm f2.0 - 2.8 which will be hard to replace. And I own the Sigma 105 1.4 for Sony. I was thinking about the 24-90mm for travel photography, just not sure if the weight/size would be adequate. And: it‘s an older lens so I‘m also not sure if it can still be regarded as „state of the art“.
The thing is, I couldn‘t be more happy from a technical point of view since my Sony offers everything I need. And I still have the option of upgrading to a (way?) better i.e. more modern sony camera body.
However, one thing is missing since I left Pentax: The fun while shooting. The Sony doesn‘t make me take photos with it. When I had my Pentax it sometimes was fun just holding it in my hands.
Btw. I had the same when I had a Leica Q2 for a short time. Just sold it because I didn‘t feel like 28mm is the way to go for me.
p.1 #7 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
P.s. Since you mentioned the SL3. Are there any rumors about this next Leica SL? When can we expect it?
Of course I thought about waiting for this newer version of the SL. Maybe they make one more step away from just relying on contrast auto focus with the SL3 then?
p.1 #8 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
I'd guess it will depend on whenever Panasonic replaces the S1R.
Why limit your Sony replacement search to just Leica? All mirrorless have eye detection AF - so you could look at Canon, Nikon, Panasonic too, if you want to stay with full frame. IMO the reason I'd look at the Leica SL cameras is if I wanted to use the SL Summicron primes and have a semi-native solution for adapting M lenses to mirrorless via Leica's M to L mount adapter that reads the 6-bit codes on M lenses (though I believe now there is also something like this available for adapting M lenses to Sony).
Nikon has some really nice f/1.8 primes at reasonable prices. Canon's 28-70/2 while large, is probably similar in size to the Leica 24-90. Yes, you give up some useful zoom range, but it's like having a bunch of primes in one lens in the way it renders, meaning its bokeh isn't all messed up, particularly on the wide end, like most 24-70s I've used or tried. As you've touched on, the native mount lens selection for Sony is difficult to ignore, particularly some of the unique lenses, such as the Tamron 35-150.
At least for me, the Leica M240 and a few lenses scratch the 'fun to use' and 'make me think while photographing' itches. So, what about picking up an M240 or M10 and a couple Voigtlander lenses, say 35 and 75mm? No, your in-focus hit rate with moving subjects, particularly with a longer lens, won't be close to an eye-detection AF system. But you'll still get keepers and you'll have to work for them. Sometimes that challenge makes the process more rewarding (though potentially also more frustrating).
p.1 #9 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
Zeitlos, since the 2.0 update for the SL2-S, Leica AF improved A LOT. It went from subpar / unusable to decent. 3.0 added more refinements to eye af.
It's good in AF-S, not great but still ok-ish in AF-C.
If there are too many people in the frame, AF keeps jumping from one face to another, it doesn't stick. In those cases I just disable face detection and go with another focus mode like spot/crosshair.
Eye AF in general is good but occasionally focus lands on eyelashes, but that happens with Sony cameras too from what I remember.
You can also research about the Panasonic S5 autofocus if that helps. I had that camera for a while too, and I feel there's no difference in AF performance between the S5 and SL2-S, or at least nothing I could notice while shooting them side to side.
p.1 #10 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
Malabito wrote:
For images in which the subjects dont move much and you only have one or two subjects it has worked great. This in AFS and AFC. The issue is when they move very fast, or when you have many subjects, the eye detect starts to jump from one subject to another its just unsuable.... there is no way to tell the camera were eye detect should work, (like in the panasonic) or to lock the face, seems the software was design by not a photogrpaher.
You change subjects with the joystick. You may need to push the joystick to engage subject selection first.
p.1 #11 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
Malabito wrote:
For images in which the subjects dont move much and you only have one or two subjects it has worked great. This in AFS and AFC. The issue is when they move very fast, or when you have many subjects, the eye detect starts to jump from one subject to another its just unsuable.... there is no way to tell the camera were eye detect should work, (like in the panasonic) or to lock the face, seems the software was design by not a photogrpaher.
Just as Gordon said above, you use the joystick. If multiple faces are detected, there will be a yellow square around the faces and the one in focus has a green square. You can then select the face you want to focus on by moving the joystick left or right.
For eye autofocus, once a face is in focus, if you click the joystick, it will switch focus point from left to right eye.
This is assuming there aren't more than 3 people in the frame, or the system won't be able to cope with the amount of calculations necessary.
Maybe this will be fixed with the next camera iteration and a more powerful processor, we'll see.
p.1 #12 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
Apart from the eye AF, moving to Leica is an expensive proposition if your main reason is to have a camera that is fun to use. I share your feelings about Sony, so understand where you’re coming from, but there are a lot of other brands out there that may give you what the Leica can give you, for a much lower price (and less weight).
p.1 #13 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
flash wrote:
You change subjects with the joystick. You may need to push the joystick to engage subject selection first.
Gordon
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simonedf wrote:
Just as Gordon said above, you use the joystick. If multiple faces are detected, there will be a yellow square around the faces and the one in focus has a green square. You can then select the face you want to focus on by moving the joystick left or right.
For eye autofocus, once a face is in focus, if you click the joystick, it will switch focus point from left to right eye.
This is assuming there aren't more than 3 people in the frame, or the system won't be able to cope with the amount of calculations necessary.
Maybe this will be fixed with the next camera iteration and a more powerful processor, we'll see....Show more →
This is not the issue, the issue is that you cant lock on the face of the subject, therefore if you have multiple faces on the frame, you press the joystick to select the face and you press focus, as soon as you release the foucs button and press it again the focus box jumps in an aleatory way to any face he finds suitable. Quite unsubable when you have multipe faces in the frame.
p.1 #14 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
johnvanr wrote:
Apart from the eye AF, moving to Leica is an expensive proposition if your main reason is to have a camera that is fun to use. I share your feelings about Sony, so understand where you’re coming from, but there are a lot of other brands out there that may give you what the Leica can give you, for a much lower price (and less weight).
Yes, it's only the fun part while using it. From a technical and maybe also optical point of view there's no reason to think of anything else. My gear just doesn't trigger me to use it. I wouldn't blame the gear alone since so many people might feel otherwise with their Sony gear. But well, that's me. I loved my Pentax gear but unfortunately they have no working eye-af which was really a game changer.
Which brands do you have in mind? The only one I can think of would be Fuji. However, then I have to go back to APS-C (or keep Sony for Portrait shootings).
p.1 #15 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
zeitlos wrote:
Yes, it's only the fun part while using it. From a technical and maybe also optical point of view there's no reason to think of anything else. My gear just doesn't trigger me to use it. I wouldn't blame the gear alone since so many people might feel otherwise with their Sony gear. But well, that's me. I loved my Pentax gear but unfortunately they have no working eye-af which was really a game changer.
Which brands do you have in mind? The only one I can think of would be Fuji. However, then I have to go back to APS-C (or keep Sony for Portrait shootings).
The 'fun' is very personal. You and I don't have fun when using Sony, but plenty of people do.
So, purely speaking for myself and what I'm familiar with: the most fun I have is when I pick up the Olympus OM-1 because it fits perfectly in my hand, can do just about everything a camera should do and doesn't weigh me down.
But it's MFT, so not great in low light and for some its resolution is too low.
I started to dislike overly large lenses, so I'm trying Leica M at the moment. I have a used M10 and a bunch of Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses. With the thumb grip, that Leica is 'fun' too, but with my eye sight the lack of a good diopter adjustment makes it somewhat frustrating after a while. I bought a used SL2-S recently as well, only to use with small M lenses. That camera would be fun if it wasn't so heavy. I'm probably going to sell it, and hope Leica will one day bring out a smaller version of the SL series. Not sure yet whether the M10 is here to stay.
I'm still debating whether I'll keep my Canon gear (see 'dislike of overly large lenses'), but I do like the R5/R6 as cameras. Also fine with the Nikon Z series, which I don't have but tried. But these are not cameras I pick up for fun. They serve their purpose very well, but don't make me want to pick them up and go out.
At the moment, I have way too much stuff, so I can tell you that I also like the feel of my Olympus Pen f and the Fuji X100V (the latter with a thumb grip). Beautiful cameras and a joy to use. I'm extremely impressed by my Ricoh GRIII and GRIIIx, but miss a viewfinder. Their design for purpose is amazing, though.
But as I said, it's personal. A lot of people love Fuji for its looks and ergonomics, but I've never held a Fuji that didn't need some accessories to make it comfortable for me. And I fail to see enough of an IQ improvement between APS-C and MFT to warrant the larger Fuji lenses.
Finally, since your original question was about eye AF, Sony and Canon will beat Leica. One reason I hesitate to ditch my Canon gear is that I sometimes do studio work and it's liberating to know the camera will consistently focus on the model's eye and I can focus on the composition. It used to be fine to focus on the eye with the middle focus point and then move the camera to the right composition, but with today's high resolution cameras it's easier to screw up than before.
p.1 #16 · How capable is the Leica SL2-S eye auto focus?
Thank you very much for your comprehensive and helpful answer. I can relate to a lot you’ve said.
Also about the Fuji bodies (maybe not the H2S) that need something to fit perfectly in my hands as well.
What a shame that the company with the best body ergonomics for me didn’t go mirror less.
Well, see. A smaller SL with updated Eye-Focus would be a solid choice for me, I think. I’m about to buy the Voigtländer 75mm 1.5 (M-Mount), so in a way my first step into a new direction
Also with manual focusing. Maybe this also brings back the user experience a bit
Thanks again for your elaborated reply. It was really interesting. I appreciate it.
