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Archive 2022 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

johnld
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

We did a recent rehearsal shoot for a couple with requests to not use lighting for an evening wedding rehearsal. Low light in this church and a wood frame construction had us shooting from 3200 to 8000 ISO. We had the RF 50mm 1.2, but there were many setups with guests not aligned on the same plane, so DOF @ f/1.2 was not ideal. Shooting up to f/4 with slower speeds was the order of the day. I was curious what programs others use to clean up high ISO grain? The Canon R6 is actually incredible at high ISO with very clean images made nicer after cleaning up the WB, but we'd like to clean these up more if possible. Thanks for any input.

Nov 20, 2022 at 10:35 AM

formula4speed
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

I've read a lot of good things about DXO Deep Prime, but haven't needed it bad enough to spend the cash on it yet.

It's probably worth mentioning that while it seems to do a great job reducing noise, it can be time consuming if you have to run it on a lot of images. Might be worth doing the free trial to see if it would work for you.

Nov 20, 2022 at 03:41 PM

keepclicking
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

Topaz has a product that I have heard many on FM use. I have not used it and I believe it’s called Topaz DeNoise.

Nov 22, 2022 at 10:55 AM

CharleyL
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

What is the ISO limit of your camera? Are you able to set the ISO on "Automatic" and also set an "ISO limit?" In situations like this, I have set my camera for "Automatic", but then set an ISO limit to two stops from the camera maximum ISO. Noise, even at higher ISOs has not been a significant problem for me, if I take the time to set my Canon 90D camera up this way.

Charley

Nov 22, 2022 at 01:58 PM

JRobertson
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

johnld wrote:
We did a recent rehearsal shoot for a couple with requests to not use lighting for an evening wedding rehearsal. Low light in this church and a wood frame construction had us shooting from 3200 to 8000 ISO. We had the RF 50mm 1.2, but there were many setups with guests not aligned on the same plane, so DOF @ f/1.2 was not ideal. Shooting up to f/4 with slower speeds was the order of the day. I was curious what programs others use to clean up high ISO grain? The Canon R6 is actually incredible at high ISO with...Show more →

What was your shutter speed? I can hand hold an R6 w/IBIS only down to 1/80th without motion blur, and have usable images as high as 12,6k. That's pretty darn dark too. You can also under expose and bring it up in your editing in post as well.

Nov 22, 2022 at 04:32 PM

johnld
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

JRobertson wrote:
What was your shutter speed? I can hand hold an R6 w/IBIS only down to 1/80th without motion blur, and have usable images as high as 12,6k. That's pretty darn dark too. You can also under expose and bring it up in your editing in post as well.

Yes, 1/80th is about my limit with the R6, but like to keep the highest ISO no more than 6400 for our style of work, but had to go to 8000 ISO. You're right about under exposing and pushing it in editing as the R6 has great latitude.

Nov 22, 2022 at 06:42 PM

Sauseschritt
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

The best way to shoot high ISO photos with low noise is to shoot at low ISO ...

So - Flash ? Long exposure ?

I never had much problems with high ISO noise, so I've never gotten myself Topaz DeNoise. I know of the program though.

Nov 23, 2022 at 10:07 AM

Ziffl3
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

Sauseschritt wrote:
The best way to shoot high ISO photos with low noise is to shoot at low ISO ...

So - Flash ? Long exposure ?

I never had much problems with high ISO noise, so I've never gotten myself Topaz DeNoise. I know of the program though.

interesting take but not practical with some shooting styles and /or situations.

Long exposure does not work in wedding world except in a few creative moments.
Flash... yes - all day long.

But if you get into a situation where you do not have a flash you are left with not getting the shot or raise ISO.
Todays cameras are fabulous.

Wedding/event we need to stop the action. a few time motion blur is cool... but not as an option for continuos coverage.

Example: shooting ceremony in church. lot of lights on couple during ceremony..... say you forgot your flash....
after ceremony couple is in back hallway or a small side room with light coming through a window.
The day is cloudy/rainy.
The couple did not kiss in the ceremony because of religions/respect for tradition.
But they want a quick shot.

Raise iso 5000, 6400, 10,000 ... whatever.
This is about a moment.... could be very special for some couples.
this is not about award or some low noise discussion.

happy T-day.

-Mark

Nov 23, 2022 at 03:42 PM

nick williams
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

One thing to remember is the wider the lens the greater the depth of field at wide apertures.
So looking at three lenses
24mm at f1.4 at 20ft gives you 21ft depth of field
35mm at f1.4 at 20ft gives you 8ft depth of field
85mm at f1.4 at 20ft gives you 1.4 ft depth of field

These figures are approximate using digital DOF app

This is where a slightly higher MP camera can help by using a wider lens to keep up the depth of field and then crop in post. Not ideal but something to remember.

Dec 05, 2022 at 03:59 AM

txtphoto
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

Is Topaz DeNoise considerably better than LR Classic built-in?

Dec 09, 2022 at 07:47 PM

elkhornsun
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

I periodically do a test and download several NR programs and install trial verions on a computer and then using the same image of a face of a woman make 4 different 4x5 size versions. I put these on layers so that I end up with a 8x10 size print. Easy with this process to see the differences in noise reduction and preservation of detail and most important the tonal range of the person's face.

I do this with the Auto NR as in normal practice I want to run a Photoshop action on a batch of files and not work on them one by one.

The entire process from doing the downloads to making the test print takes less than 1 hour.

I have often shot at f/2.8 with the 70-200mm lens in dark churches and often at shutter speeds as low as 1/10s. F/2.8 provides enough DOF at church distances and enough light for the autofocus sensors. At 1/10s and 200mm about half my images were usable without subject or camera motion blur. Even when people appear to be standing still I have found that I need at least 1/80s to avoid subject motion blur in images.

I like the 105mm f/1.4 lenses for dark situations and it provides a very natural perspective when photographing people. It has its drawbacks and even with a f/2.8 lens I can shoot at ISO 3200 and get good results.

With a mirrorless camera I would be shooting in burst mode to be able to use the lowest possible shutter speed. I would also charge the couple more as my post processing workload is going to double in time and effort.

Too often photographers use ISO settings that are unnecessarily high and kill the mood of the scene. I can make a evening outdoor wedding look like it happened at high noon but that would not make for a happy bride.

I always get a DVD with all the images from their last wedding when considering a second photographer. I can see how well they set up their camera. Often they are using f/5.6 when it provides no real advantage and with flash so the recycle times are much longer.

Where I need the most DOF is with something like the 24mm lens where the DOF seems to be great but the camera has a lot more difficulty focusing accurately with the greatly reduced size of objects in the frame. This is particularly a problem with low light situations where contrast detection is made very difficult.

Dec 10, 2022 at 04:33 PM

KarmaKramer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

Even at 1.4 I’m sometimes shooting at 5000 ISO at some wedding receptions. Thats of course when I’m shooting at a distance with an 85 or longer etc
I have to clean those up and I use Topaz Denoise. It works great but does take a couple minutes per photo, and one at a time.
If I’m using anything shorter (24,35,50) then I’ll use flash in those dark places.

Dec 17, 2022 at 09:56 AM

KarmaKramer
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

Yes. Its like comparing apples to some fruit noone’s ever heard of.

txtphoto wrote:
Is Topaz DeNoise considerably better than LR Classic built-in?

Dec 17, 2022 at 09:57 AM

KarmaKramer
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

Long exposure’s no good if they’re moving and flash is no good if they’re at a distance and you dont want to blast the room with flash every few minutes.

Sauseschritt wrote:
The best way to shoot high ISO photos with low noise is to shoot at low ISO ...

So - Flash ? Long exposure ?

I never had much problems with high ISO noise, so I've never gotten myself Topaz DeNoise. I know of the program though.

Dec 17, 2022 at 10:00 AM

Sauseschritt
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

Appologies.

The OP already was using every trick I know of - using a large sensor with hopefully excellent high ISO performance, using a very bright prime lens with hopefully the T-stop being very close to the f-stop, using only as wide an aperture as they absolutely need.

Other than more obscure measures:

- post processing trickery (up to literally using the photo to paint the actual image in photoshop)
- lowering the shutter speed and, as somebody here suggested, shooting series to hopefully catch one image in the series that has tolerable motion blurr
- getting an even larger sensor
- getting a monochrome sensor and accept black and white

there isnt much trickery left.

Dec 21, 2022 at 02:43 AM

gchappel
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

I am not a wedding photographer- that is way too hard.
I shoot a lot of wildlife and sports- in our worlds high iso is an everyday event.
The best we can do at 600mm is f4, and if something is moving we need a shutter speed of at least 1/1000 or faster. Best shooting is usually at dawn or dusk with low light.
Iso's in the range of 6400-12000 everyday. (sometimes higher.)
I use dxo photolab pretty routinely for noise- works great.
If I am already in photoshop before I notice noise I use topaz denoise- works great as well.
Both have free trials, see which works best in your workflow.
gary

Dec 23, 2022 at 07:53 AM

johnld
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Suggestions for making cleaner high ISO photos

Update...
I did demo the DXO Deep Prime and it does work to clean up and give a bit of pop. If opting for the full Deep Prime Monty, it's slow, so good for a few pics only. I should note that the Canon R6 is already remarkable at high ISO and even better with the DXO. Thanks for the suggestions.

Jan 25, 2023 at 09:13 AM


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