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Archive 2022 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)

  
 
Two23
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


You probably get this question a lot but I'll ask anyway. I normally shoot motorcycle racing (ice racing) and have done a few HS football games in the distant past, rodeos, and daytime soccer. These were just regular home games. Suddenly I've been asked to do a state play-off game. This is on a college field, in a dome. Not sure how well lit. The school is getting me a pass to shoot from the floor. My gear is a Nikon D850, Nikon D500, Sigma 135mm f1.8, Nikon 70-200mm f2,8, Nikon 300mm f4E VR, and I do have a bag full of f1.4 shorter lenses if needed. I'm a fairly experienced photographer (weddings, portraits, racing) and have often shot at night (trains/railroad, night motorcycle racing, rodeos) My software is PS, Topaz DeNoise, Topaz Sharpen, Topaz Gigapixel, Portrait Pro. I use fast memory cards.

I've watched a number of Youtube videos so I'm now almost an expert! (Kidding of course.) My settings are auto ISO with cap at 10,000, S-priority with 1/800s as the slowest, continuous focus, set to focus-release. Camera can do 9 shots per second burst but with my racing shots I usually shoot timed singles. Could do short bursts on important action. The person paying me has a son that is a nose guard so I'm thinking mostly will photo defense plays. I plan on staying out of everyone's way, back a bit from the sidelines. This is a small town school so I'm not sure there will be very many other regular media photograhers there. (And this is in South Dakota, a small population state.) My plan is to not ruffle feathers at any rate. I am a pretty disciplined shooter. I'm going to a Walmart parking lot tonight to check how my camera settings are working in low light.

So, any general tips? I don't plan to make a career out of this but am getting paid and want to give reasonably good results. I almost always shoot raw (NEF) but the advice I've been getting is to shoot high res jpeg for this.


Kent in SD



Nov 08, 2022 at 07:01 PM
carl_g
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


I’d borrow or rent a 300 f2.8, pair it with the d500 and use you 70-200 with the d850.


Nov 08, 2022 at 08:01 PM
Two23
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


carl_g wrote:
I’d borrow or rent a 300 f2.8 and pair it with the d500 and use you 70-200 with the d850.



Have used a 300mm f2.8 before. They're nice! What's the highest ISO I can likely get away with with D500? I do use Topaz in post.


Kent in SD




Nov 08, 2022 at 08:05 PM
kreegerk
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Two23 wrote:
What's the highest ISO I can likely get away with with D500? I do use Topaz in post.


Having used D500 for dozens of low light nigh time HS football with 300 F2.8 (DX=450 F2.8) in these kind of conditions I would say ISO 5000 is as high as you dare to go, the issue is usually shadow detail can drop off quite a bit about ISO 5000. I have tried ISO 10,000 before but it was really choppy and Topaz won't put your shadow detail back.

Shoot 1/1250th to 1/1600th at F2.8 for best results. 1/800th will still show motion.

I went into my archives - here is an image from 2019 when I was really pushing the envelope. ISO 10000, D500, 300 F2.8. This has been re-processed from the .NEF with DXO latest version, from Raw->DNG->jpg. Having good lighting makes a huge difference.








  NIKON D500    300.0 mm f/2.8 lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/1600s    10000 ISO    -0.7 EV  




Nov 08, 2022 at 09:22 PM
AMD300
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


It’s going to be a little tough as I’m sure you know already. That being said….

Use your 70-200 with the D500. I shoot in probably some of the worst lighting in the country it feels like and I sneak down to 1/800th because I have to. If you have a friend with a 300/2.8 or a 200/2 it would be a great time to call in a favor.

Also, maybe even consider taking a second camera too (I shoot with one on a monopod and one on a strap) for the shots when they get too close or in the end zone. Some fields (probably not this college field) the lighting is the worst at the end zones. FF, fast glass and a wider lens for the action there can really help.

Shooting lineman can be hard. Stay behind the offense so that you are looking at the faces of the defenders. One plus with him being a nose guard is he likely won’t be making plays except for within a 10 yard range give or take. That will help you to get your position on the field mostly right every time since you are just shooting him.

Auto ISO as you mentioned I go up to 10,000 but only because I have no other option (for an idea to some of my light issues I am sometimes even at 20,000+ on my D5) a college field will likely have good to great lighting. Turn on anti flicker, use D9 for focus points and him being a lineman may require you to have a longer delay of the AF to keep the focus on him as all the other mayhem happens around the line of scrimmage.

As for JPEG Vs RAW…I’m different than a lot but I shoot RAW. One of the fields I shoot at has what I think to be sodium vapor lighting and it creates all sorts of fun color casts on some parts to all of the images when using D4S or other cameras without anti flicker.

Good luck, I’ve seen your other work around here over the years. Im certain you will do more than fine.



Nov 08, 2022 at 09:41 PM
Two23
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


AMD300 wrote:
It’s going to be a little tough as I’m sure you know already. That being said….

As for JPEG Vs RAW…I’m different than a lot but I shoot RAW. One of the fields I shoot at has what I think to be sodium vapor lighting and it creates all sorts of fun color casts on some parts to all of the images when using D4S or other cameras without anti flicker.

Good luck, I’ve seen your other work around here over the years. Im certain you will do more than fine.




Thanks. The D850 does have anti-flicker and it's on. I was out tonight in a Walmart parking lot checking to see how the camera reacts to ISO 10,000 and focus in low light. It did quite well--Denoise is ground breaking! The high school as pulled some strings and apparently did get me a pass for the floor. In return I'm expected to take photos of the rest of the team. I agreed. I might end up shooting a few photos in raw to hedge my bet, but considering the volume of shots I'll probably end up with I might go the jpeg fine route. I could set the D850 to NEF and the D500 to jpeg I suppose. Or, have the D850 record both on different cards.

I've been very hit & miss on the FM forums the past year & half. I'm spending as much time on photography as ever though. I've been concentrating on shooting wet plate collodion with a 1922 8x10 camera and pre-Civil War lenses. Outdoors in the field from the back of my Subaru. There was a learning curve to that.


Kent in SD



Nov 08, 2022 at 10:16 PM
CJMiller
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Kent, I think you'll be fine. If I still shot Nikon I might be looking at renting a D5. The 300 2.8 would be nice, but I think you might be better served by the high ISO performance of the D5. I owned three D500s before switching to Sony so I had plenty of experience with that body. Just a thought....

Good luck!

Chris



Nov 08, 2022 at 10:33 PM
Llewtwo
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Most domes used for football have decent lighting football wise. Presumably there are some images you can see on a search to see what they get for the college games played there. Ideally, for football you want a 300 or 400 on one body and at least a 70-200 on the other. Your 70-200 punches out to 300 on your Nikon D500. Your 135 1.8 also punches out to 200 at f1.8 on your D500. I often use my 135 f.18 late in games in place of my 70-200. It's tight for shots right in front of you but it's good generally 25 yards in to the goal line. I like a 24-70 or shorter prime for action in the end zone or environmental shots here and there. If you are going to rent a long lens I would get a 300 or 400 depending upon which body you will use on it. Your 300 gets you 450 on your D500. Your 400 is 600 and to me that would be too tight for most high school games. The percentage of great shots that would be taken with a 600 at least for me would be pretty low. Were it me I would get my nose guard shots out of the way early on and then shoot it like a normal football game where you are trying to get good overall coverage particularly around the ball.



Nov 09, 2022 at 01:15 PM
Two23
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Well, some more information I got today. The school principal called me and said she was thrilled. They had a photographer lined up but he backed out. They were going to have a student with the school yearbook take photos but he is using an older Canon Rebel with kit lenses. This is a tiny, tiny HS in a somewhat remote part of South Dakota. It's 9-man teams. I'm thinking the action could be faster with a lot more running! The principal said she has a photo pass for me, so I'm covered there. This is getting more interesting! Game is at 7 PM and I think I'll show up at 5 PM to look over the field and check light readings, introduce myself to coach and school officials so they know who I am, and take some photos of the warms ups. That should give me an idea of exposure etc. They also want photos of more than just the nose guard, of course, for the school yearbook. This playoff game is a really big deal for this little school. I'm giving it my best effort.

Being a generous guy, I'm thinking of letting the yearbook photographer use my D500 some. The field is too big for one guy to cover anyway.

The game is tomorrow night so I have to use what I've got. That will be Nikons D850 & D500, Nikons 70-200mm f2.8 VR, 300mm f4E VR, Sigma 35mm f1.4, Sigma 135mm f1.8. I bought a couple of additional fast cards (ouch!) I have a rough strategy from watching Youtube tutorials, and will play it by ear. I think photo'ing the warm up will help me dial in. I took my D850 to a Walmart parking lot last night to see how it does in poor light with ISO 10,000. It wasn't terrific but certainly acceptable with Denoise processing. I'm upping shutter speed to 1/1000s minimum. I was thinking of using DX crop mode on the D850 but came to think that's kind of silly since I can crop if I want later. My plan is to take about 1,500 photos, sometimes using CL-high bursts, and hope 10% of shots are usable. I think that's a reasonable goal. D500 will be set to ISO 3200 or 5000, depend on light. I'm still thinking on setting memory card file saving to either NEF+JPEG or to overflow. I'm leaning to overflow and just shooting JPEG to reduce post.


Kent in SD



Nov 09, 2022 at 07:35 PM
eyal
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Careful - you may get addicted to this (I did)...

I posted a few days ago with my settings and where I tend to set up for games.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1781552

I addition, would add:
1. Shoot from your knees (and some gardening or other knee pads can help with that)
2. I tried shooting with a rented 400/2.8 at our playoff game last year and found it unwieldy. It's probably more suited to college/pro level where the photographers don't have free rein. I would use the 70-200 predominately during the game.
3. I shoot everything else to both cards simultaneously but sports is overflow and do use RAW files so can have more leeway in post

Hardest part for you may be trying to predict the plays (and shots). Having shot my high school team all season, I know the players well enough to have a pretty good guess of where the ball may go.

Also, high school football is (relatively) slow so you do have time to follow longer passes and try to capture catches that way.

Other rec is, if have time, go to the practice/warm up before the game so you can introduce yourself and try shots/settings and get dialed in for the game.

Good luck!



Nov 10, 2022 at 09:15 AM
eyal
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Oh and biggest rec - make sure you shoot the celebration after scoring. Typically see players jump and bump (have shot of that in my post above). Also some coaches may do same.


Nov 10, 2022 at 09:53 AM
Game Changer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


If you see professional sports photographers on the field, it doesn't hurt to introduce yourself and watch where/how they shoot.
Also, be respectful of sideline etiquette!
1. Stay out of the Team Box (unless you have special permission like the official Team Photographers sometimes do). This is usually between the 25-yard lines.
2. Be aware of your surroundings, especially other photographers' LOV. Never set up where you are encroaching on or blocking another photographer's line of vision. This is especially critical when shooting from the End Zone when the teams are within the Red Zone. It is bad enough to have the Ref's step in front of your shot or angle of shooting, but when another photographer does it, expect some fighting words!
3. Stay off the Referee's Path! Some stadiums have designated marker lines about 3-5' from the sidelines that you need to shoot from behind.



Nov 10, 2022 at 12:09 PM
eyal
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Game Changer wrote:
1. Stay out of the Team Box (unless you have special permission like the official Team Photographers sometimes do). This is usually between the 25-yard lines.


Great points but this one is interesting - I'm assuming that is more for college/pro level football. I have seen the photographers shooting for local news in this space regularly and am now the official team photographer so have permission to shoot here as well. Prior to being so, I stayed on either end of the team box.

This would explain the need for longer glass than the 70-200/2.8



Nov 10, 2022 at 12:43 PM
schlotz
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


I'm in for hearing how this turns out. Good Luck!


Nov 10, 2022 at 01:09 PM
Game Changer
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


eyal wrote:
Great points but this one is interesting - I'm assuming that is more for college/pro level football. I have seen the photographers shooting for local news in this space regularly and am now the official team photographer so have permission to shoot here as well. Prior to being so, I stayed on either end of the team box.

This would explain the need for longer glass than the 70-200/2.8


It depends upon where you shoot and who you are shooting for.
I am in the DFW area, and we have a lot of "Pro" level stadiums that the local high school teams use. They often have stadium or school district personnel at the games monitoring photographers. Unless you are the official team photographer or a student shooting for the yearbook, etc, you are asked to stay out of the team boxes. One stadium does not allow still photographers to shoot from the end zones, yet every booster or alumni can stand at the edge of the end zones and take iPhone pics/videos. (The AD is a real TYRANT).

If you shoot for an organization like MaxSpecs, they have written guidelines telling you to stay out of the team boxes.




Nov 10, 2022 at 05:20 PM
osv2
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Two23 wrote:
You probably get this question a lot but I'll ask anyway. I normally shoot motorcycle Suddenly I've been asked to do a state play-off game. This is on a college field, in a dome.


does it have high-frequency led lighting? too late now, but it might have been a good excuse to rent a z9






Nov 10, 2022 at 07:02 PM
eyal
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · HS Play-offs (Need Advice)


Texas - say no more ;-)

I stayed out of the player area last year when I was getting access on a game-by-game basis and was surprised that one of the news guys was literally kneeling in the middle of the players on the sidelines.

Now I'm doing that but I know every one of those kids and they've saved me twice on incoming players by pulling me back!



Nov 10, 2022 at 09:01 PM





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