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Archive 2022 · Next GFX camera?

  
 
Makten
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Next GFX camera?




This way is a better tradeoff between load times and artifacts. Also, reproducing files at 100% magnification wouldn't allow visual comparisons between sensors of different resolutions.

Alvy Ray Smith has not updated his site to use secure connections. If you tell your browser to ignore the fact that the link doesn't start with https:// you'll be able to see it.

Understanding what role the pixel plays in image sampling is important to understanding how to present the data from a sampled image.



I wonder if we simply use images for different purposes. I tend to look at them, not measure them.

Anyway, even if your method probably has its pros, it's inconvenient for the reader having to alter the distance to the screen. I don't even have room enough behind my screen to back off far enough for the crops to look sharp. So all this only leads to all of your crops looking like a blurry mess.



Nov 30, 2022 at 12:55 PM
JimKasson
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Next GFX camera?


Makten wrote:
I wonder if we simply use images for different purposes. I tend to look at them, not measure them.


These images are produce for visual evaluation. Isn't that obvious? What is there to measure?

I see no point in continuing this discussion.




Nov 30, 2022 at 01:39 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Next GFX camera?




I wonder if we simply use images for different purposes. I tend to look at them, not measure them.

Anyway, even if your method probably has its pros, it's inconvenient for the reader having to alter the distance to the screen. I don't even have room enough behind my screen to back off far enough for the crops to look sharp. So all this only leads to all of your crops looking like a blurry mess.


Posting images at any high magnification is difficult since everyone is using a different screen resolution — and add to that the fact that most of us with high res monitors have to have our browsers set to +1 or +2 zoom so that web content fills the screen more easily.

Posting 100% crops is particularly problematic unless one downloads the file manually, opens it in Photoshop, then zooms to 100% to see it as intended. If it’s simply viewed in the browser window, it’s always zoomed into 200% or more and requires reducing the browser view sometimes by -4 steps to see it at 100% as intended — and even then we have to guess if that’s 100% because there’s no way to confirm in the browser. As such, I NEVER post 100% crops because frankly they look like warmed over dog poop in the browser, and I have no control over the magnification the viewer will use. So when I post comparisons, I always zoom to 100% in C1 and take screenshots of the images side-by-side. Or I do the screenshots at 200% if that is where the meaningful differences show up.



Nov 30, 2022 at 02:34 PM
Makten
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Next GFX camera?


JimKasson wrote:
These images are produce for visual evaluation. Isn't that obvious? What is there to measure?

I see no point in continuing this discussion.



I was refering to your talk about pixels, image sampling and data, as opposed to just looking at a crop and figure out if you like what you see or not.

The problem with having a different method than everybody else is that there is no reference. I have no idea of if you are testning a sharp lens or not since I cannot compare it to anything I know, because I have no clue of what magnification you are presenting.
A 100% crop can always be viewed as one normally view images, and compared to anything (if you take total number of pixels into account, of course).



Nov 30, 2022 at 04:10 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Next GFX camera?


Makten wrote:
I was refering to your talk about pixels, image sampling and data, as opposed to just looking at a crop and figure out if you like what you see or not.

The problem with having a different method than everybody else is that there is no reference. I have no idea of if you are testning a sharp lens or not since I cannot compare it to anything I know, because I have no clue of what magnification you are presenting.
A 100% crop can always be viewed as one normally view images, and compared to anything (if you
...Show more

It kinda sounds like you're wanting the original RAW to do your own comparisons. A 100% crop exported to JPEG by the tester will not be apples-to-apples with how you process your files.



Nov 30, 2022 at 04:37 PM
hauxon
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Next GFX camera?


Back to topic. My guess/hope is Fuji will make a 100R that will be smaller than the 50R, but probably not lighter. We might also see a G100, an X100 type camera with a fixed 45mm f/3.5 lens. I agree with those who say Fuji should invest in AI but that comes later.


Nov 30, 2022 at 05:09 PM
Joseph Marney
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Next GFX camera?


I'd like a GFX camera that mirrors the X-T5 as much as possible, with the exception of having a deeper grip. I doubt they will create any new 50MP cameras, for various reasons, but 50-100MP with decent 4k video would work. Pricing similar to the 50s II, or better. But don't skimp on the EVF!

They are doing pretty well with the lens line-up, but I hope Fuji can improve AF speed moving forward. A 63mm F/2 could be intriguing.



Nov 30, 2022 at 06:06 PM
Makten
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Next GFX camera?


highdesertmesa wrote:
It kinda sounds like you're wanting the original RAW to do your own comparisons. A 100% crop exported to JPEG by the tester will not be apples-to-apples with how you process your files.


No, but at least ONE paramter will be known. Now it's none.



Nov 30, 2022 at 06:37 PM
bobby350z
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Next GFX camera?


Joseph Marney wrote:
I'd like a GFX camera that mirrors the X-T5 as much as possible, with the exception of having a deeper grip. I doubt they will create any new 50MP cameras, for various reasons, but 50-100MP with decent 4k video would work. Pricing similar to the 50s II, or better. But don't skimp on the EVF!

They are doing pretty well with the lens line-up, but I hope Fuji can improve AF speed moving forward. A 63mm F/2 could be intriguing.


Definitely better EVF. And if people asking fast lens, please say min f1.7. I know small difference between f2 and f1.7 but it is wish so I would even say f1.4



Nov 30, 2022 at 07:17 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Next GFX camera?


bobby350z wrote:
Definitely better EVF. And if people asking fast lens, please say min f1.7. I know small difference between f2 and f1.7 but it is wish so I would even say f1.4


Yes, better EVF for sure. The current resolution is embarrassing for a 100mp 44x33 camera. It certainly is better performing than the 50S/R EVF, especially when magnified, but it could be so much better.



Nov 30, 2022 at 07:54 PM
Makten
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Next GFX camera?


Really? I didn't notice any difference between 50R and 50S II (which has the same EVF as the 100S), and I've never even thought about the resolution. When/why would you need higher?


Dec 01, 2022 at 06:00 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Next GFX camera?



Makten wrote:
Really? I didn't notice any difference between 50R and 50S II (which has the same EVF as the 100S), and I've never even thought about the resolution. When/why would you need higher?


The difference must be the feed from the 100S sensor I guess. Never tried the 50S II.

Strange question. It’s like having less than perfect vision and asking why you’d want to see 20/20. The EVF experience of my Leica SL2/S was much better, especially when using magnified zoom for manual focus. Maybe the difference is more than the resolution, perhaps the quality of the optics in the EVF itself.



Dec 01, 2022 at 07:58 AM
Emyr
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Next GFX camera?


I'd like the next version of the 100(s) to have 8k video, downsamped from 11k.

And an uptick in 4k to 50/60fps.




Dec 01, 2022 at 08:22 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Next GFX camera?


Emyr wrote:
I'd like the next version of the 100(s) to have 8k video, downsamped from 11k.

And an uptick in 4k to 50/60fps.



8K on 44x33 would require a 30 second record limit to prevent spontaneous combustion

I would like to have 120fps in some form, even if it's just HD.

Also give us full 44x33 anamorphic desqueeze and three native anamorphic GF lenses



Dec 01, 2022 at 09:43 AM
Joseph Marney
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Next GFX camera?


Makten wrote:
Really? I didn't notice any difference between 50R and 50S II (which has the same EVF as the 100S), and I've never even thought about the resolution. When/why would you need higher?


I hear from a lot of folks that the difference between 2, 3, or 5MP resolution isn't apparent to them, and such things will vary from person to person. The EVF resolution isn't a make it or break it for me, but I do notice the difference and appreciate the viewfinder of the X-H2 over the X-T5/GFX 50s II/100s. It seems like Fuji skimped to create more product differentiation, which is understandable. But my dream GFX has a 5MP or higher viewfinder.

Size and viewfinder optics also play an important role, of course.



Dec 01, 2022 at 10:01 AM
Sauseschritt
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Next GFX camera?


Emyr wrote:
I'd like the next version of the 100(s) to have 8k video, downsamped from 11k.

And an uptick in 4k to 50/60fps.

Sensor properties depend upon Sony, not Fujifilm.

As long as theres just the 50 and 100 Megapixel sensors offered by Sony, there wont be any performance increases for medium format cameras.

Unless Fujifilm would go third party, but then the camera prices would probably explode.



Dec 01, 2022 at 11:18 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Next GFX camera?




Sauseschritt wrote:
Sensor properties depend upon Sony, not Fujifilm.

As long as theres just the 50 and 100 Megapixel sensors offered by Sony, there wont be any performance increases for medium format cameras.

Unless Fujifilm would go third party, but then the camera prices would probably explode.


If the bottleneck for video is at the sensor level, then yes. But it may be due to the processor and other electronics Fujifilm is using. In any case, I think most of us are talking about improvements that go hand-and-hand with the next 44x33 sensor Sony will produce.



Dec 01, 2022 at 11:43 AM
Sauseschritt
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Next GFX camera?


highdesertmesa wrote:
If the bottleneck for video is at the sensor level, then yes.


Why, uh, yes ?

Fujifilm already pretty much exploits all performance you will ever be able to get out of these sensors.

Why wouldnt they have ?

I have no link, but you can look up the performance of Sony sensors on the net. Fujifilm is already at the limit.



Dec 01, 2022 at 12:14 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Next GFX camera?


Sauseschritt wrote:
Why, uh, yes ?

Fujifilm already pretty much exploits all performance you will ever be able to get out of these sensors.

Why wouldnt they have ?

I have no link, but you can look up the performance of Sony sensors on the net. Fujifilm is already at the limit.


Why wouldn't they? Because video is more complicated than just sensor performance – there are thermal limits/issues, firmware efficiencies, and processing power to contend with. After the Canon R5 8K overheating controversy, I doubt many manufacturers are running to allow a video spec that will cause overheating. What if Fujifilm could have done 120fps HD on the 100S but would have had to limit the record time to 30 seconds? I'd be ok with that, but would they do it? How would you know they can't versus they decided they won't?

Are video specs for the Sony sensors fixed and that information provided to manufacturers? IDK. If so, what's the source?



Dec 01, 2022 at 01:06 PM
bobby350z
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Next GFX camera?


"But my dream GFX has a 5MP or higher viewfinder."

I wouldn't take anything less than 9-10MP for the next GFX.



Dec 01, 2022 at 06:33 PM
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