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Archive 2022 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking

  
 
joyc
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Check out this thread : https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66948399



Mar 21, 2023 at 06:31 PM
JustShootMe
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


How about some more info (subject, settings, shutter speed) ? Sounds like user error to me, it aint perfect but it works... these photos are all bird eye AF




  X-T5    NIKON AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR + 1.4X lens    700mm    f/8.0    1/2000s    400 ISO    -0.7 EV  






  X-T5    NIKON AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR lens    500mm    f/5.6    1/500s    320 ISO    0.0 EV  






  X-T5    NIKON AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR + 1.4X lens    700mm    f/8.0    1/1000s    320 ISO    -1.0 EV  






  X-T5    NIKON AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR lens    500mm    f/5.6    1/800s    800 ISO    0.0 EV  




Mar 21, 2023 at 06:43 PM
littleego
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Thank you both, for the link and the lovely examples. Very nice!

I'm using human subjects, mechanical shutter, aperture priority, single shot only. All four of the new prime lenses: 18/1.4, 23/1.4, 33/1.4, 56/1.2

Shutter speeds from 1/50 to 1/100

There's usually no motion blur, as I can pick out the focal plane on their clothes, most frequently in front of the eyes on the sleeve, but sometimes behind the eyes on the collar or chest.

Hit rate for eye focus is maybe 1/20 wide open.


PS for subjects wearing eyeglasses it frequently does get the frames, but not the eyes






Mar 21, 2023 at 08:14 PM
jaygould
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Just curious, what is the reason you chose Fuji for portrait photography? They aren't smaller than some full frame cameras from Canon or Sony. Perhaps even larger when you factor in lenses into the equation.


Mar 22, 2023 at 04:33 AM
JustShootMe
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


littleego wrote:
Thank you both, for the link and the lovely examples. Very nice!

I'm using human subjects, mechanical shutter, aperture priority, single shot only. All four of the new prime lenses: 18/1.4, 23/1.4, 33/1.4, 56/1.2

Shutter speeds from 1/50 to 1/100

There's usually no motion blur, as I can pick out the focal plane on their clothes, most frequently in front of the eyes on the sleeve, but sometimes behind the eyes on the collar or chest.

Hit rate for eye focus is maybe 1/20 wide open.

PS for subjects wearing eyeglasses it frequently does get the frames, but not the eyes



Shutter speed seams very low , also why not use continuous AF ? is the subject moving ? wide open it doesn't take much to screw up the shot with razor thin depth of field. Are you using a tripod ? How about an example photo with the exif data.



Mar 22, 2023 at 07:45 AM
littleego
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


jaygould wrote:
Just curious, what is the reason you chose Fuji for portrait photography? They aren't smaller than some full frame cameras from Canon or Sony. Perhaps even larger when you factor in lenses into the equation.


Sorry if I wan't clear - I'm just a hobbyist, candids of friends and family. Unfortunately I'm a perfectionist hobbyist though.

Fuji for the size, quality lenses and colors.

I tried a Sony a7c with Sigma lenses and the size is good, but I could not manage the colors. Too much work!

Tried Panasonic, liked the colors but the camera was too bulky and imposing for my subjects. They would run away, or at least groan. Same for Nikon with the big lenses. Canon is the one I have not tried.

They don't seem to mind the Fuji so much, it's cute (to my eye) and I like the colors. I just have very few photos in-focus.






Mar 22, 2023 at 02:09 PM
littleego
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


JustShootMe wrote:
Shutter speed seams very low , also why not use continuous AF ? is the subject moving ? wide open it doesn't take much to screw up the shot with razor thin depth of field. Are you using a tripod ? How about an example photo with the exif data.


Thank you, I'll try faster shutter but I do see some parts in-focus, so I don't think it's motion. No tripod, no. I have tried continuous AF to no avail, so I'm using single because I can then override with manual focus to fine-tune. I've done a whole bunch with subjects standing totally still looking straight at me, it never get the eyes - it may get the hair over the ears or the fingers a little in front of the chest, etc, but not the eyes.

I can get in-focus reasonably well if I stop down, to about 4 or 5.6, but then there's really no point in using fast lenses - I'd be better off just using the Ricoh GRiiix, which is excellent for that sort of thing.

I'm a little leery of uploading unless I can figure out how to link somewhere, mostly they are pics of my children.




Mar 22, 2023 at 02:15 PM
littleego
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Well I'm giving up on this focusing project. I've tried everything I can think of, keeping the shutter speed above 1/250, electronic shutter, stationary subjects, continuous and single shot, turning off eye and using face-only, whatever, and I still have essentially zero success getting an eye in-focus. Only stopped down, and then I may as well use something like my Ricoh GR.

The X-T5 is a luscious camera in many ways and the lenses work nicely even wide-open for stills, but I can't get it to work for people. Maybe my expectations were unrealistic.

Thanks for the input from the forum members anyway, appreciated.



Mar 23, 2023 at 06:48 PM
itai195
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


I haven't had any serious trouble with eye detection on my X-T5. It's not as reliable as my Sony cameras, not even an A7M3, but it works fine. I've been using continuous and zone, I don't find single focus particularly reliable for eye AF even on a Sony camera.


Mar 23, 2023 at 07:01 PM
jaygould
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


littleego wrote:
Sorry if I wan't clear - I'm just a hobbyist, candids of friends and family. Unfortunately I'm a perfectionist hobbyist though.

Fuji for the size, quality lenses and colors.

I tried a Sony a7c with Sigma lenses and the size is good, but I could not manage the colors. Too much work!

Tried Panasonic, liked the colors but the camera was too bulky and imposing for my subjects. They would run away, or at least groan. Same for Nikon with the big lenses. Canon is the one I have not tried.

They don't seem to mind the Fuji so much, it's
...Show more

Understood. Maybe try Sony lenses on an A7C. I find the colors from my 40mm Sigma quite bad. Or try the new Canon R8. It's smaller and lighter than the XT-5 and has a full frame sensor. It has amazing autofocus (probably better than any current Sony camera, including the A1).



Apr 25, 2023 at 12:03 AM
littleego
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


jaygould wrote:
Understood. Maybe try Sony lenses on an A7C. I find the colors from my 40mm Sigma quite bad. Or try the new Canon R8. It's smaller and lighter than the XT-5 and has a full frame sensor. It has amazing autofocus (probably better than any current Sony camera, including the A1).


Thank you, indeed the impossible Sony colors were with Sigma lenses on the a7c - I was not using Sony lenses. I did briefly use the Voigtlander 50/2 APO and thought the colors were better, but didnít have enough time with it. Will have a look at the Canon too. The Fuji went back after much focusing frustration.




Apr 25, 2023 at 01:51 PM
mastadont2
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


So, guys:

This is not eye-tracking but most likely related. IT is an auto-focus problem as well. So, I think i is just AF behavior that is erratic irrelevant of whether it is subject tracking or not.

Everything started when I reviewed my shots with 10-24 earlier this week. I looked like quite a few of them were misfocused. This was pronounced especially in the distant parts of the images which were supposed to be in focus. I did some research and figured that those might have been caused by a problem with Fuji auto-focus. So I decided to check that out.

Now I can tell both X-T5 and X-T3 I own exhibit the issue. I have not done extensive testing but I used XF 10-24 v1 at 10 mm f/8 and XF 16 1.4 at f/8. X-T5 is on 1.04 firmware.

AF + MF is off. AF-S. Focus-priority. The half-press focuses. Individually focused each frame. Focused on the same point. Each time I got focus confirmation.

Did five shots per lens and only two out of five per lens were focused correctly although these numbers vary across dffferent test runs

So, getting the vibe from the inet, I can summarize it as follows:

Both X-T3 and X-T5 have autofocus problems with wide angles at f/8. Sounds like the problem has been reported for f/5.6 for wider angles. The problem is not pronounced with brighter apertures. The distance scale reflects the jumps in autofocus accuracy (the tick jumps from 2m to infinity in some cases.). The size of the focus rectangle does not seem to be relevant to the problem.


Edited on May 28, 2023 at 05:31 PM · View previous versions



May 28, 2023 at 02:39 PM
mastadont2
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Upgraded to X-T5 firmware v2.

It has not solved the problem.

Summary of my unscientific tests:

1. Cameras: XT-5 (firmware v 2.0) and X-T3 (firmware v 4.52)
2. Lenses: XF 10-24 f4 v1 with no filter and XF 16 f1.4 with no filter
3. Tested Focal lengths: XF 10-24 f8 at 10mm and XF 16 f8 at 16mm.
4. Outside, sunny, shutter speed 1/200 and above.
5. Focused on the same spot which was about 10m away. Each time I got focus confirmation.
4. AF + MF is on or off (irrelevant).
6. AF-S - Focus-priority.
7. The half-press focuses or the back button focus (irrelevant).
8. Focus rectangle: all sizes (irrelevant)
9. Tried all kinds of shutter modes (electronic, first curtain, mechanical and their combinations) (irrelevant)
10.I tried disabling IS and changing metering mode to all possible values but to no avail ((irrelevant)
11. Individually focused each frame.
12. Face/subject detection is on or off (irrelevant)
13. Did five shots per lens . Everything else was just pure observation of the distance scale when focusing.

Only two out of five shots per lens were focused correctly! After playing with the cameras more, I can tell these numbers vary all the time.

More findings :

The brighter aperture I go, the narrower distance variations become when focusing on the same spot but they are still there. At f4 (5m to infinity variance), the auto focus behavior is less inconsistent compared to f/8 (1.5m to infinity variance) at 10mm but it is still there.

The longer the focal distance of the length, the less autofocus variance it exhibits. With my 16-80, the distance scale was showing the same distance when focusing on the same spot at 80 mm whereas the erratic autofocus behavior was observed at 16mm and 35mm on that same lens.



May 28, 2023 at 02:43 PM
Junius Bobbledoonary
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


IĎm considering trading in my X-T30 for an X-T5, but this thread has led me to hold off for another firmware update to see if the focus issues are fixed. Nikon DSLR is my bread and butter, but the X-T30 is fun for snappy everyday photos or anywhere I donít want to lug around the D850. If the X-T5 canít reliably handle pics of my moving kids or capture a moment with snappy eye focus, no way Iím dropping $1700 on one. I want something more mobile thatís weather proof and with dual slots for Europe next year. Hoping Fuji improves it by then.


Jul 25, 2023 at 08:49 PM
cwmoros
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking




Junius Bobbledoonary wrote:
IĎm considering trading in my X-T30 for an X-T5, but this thread has led me to hold off for another firmware update to see if the focus issues are fixed. Nikon DSLR is my bread and butter, but the X-T30 is fun for snappy everyday photos or anywhere I donít want to lug around the D850. If the X-T5 canít reliably handle pics of my moving kids or capture a moment with snappy eye focus, no way Iím dropping $1700 on one. I want something more mobile thatís weather proof and with dual slots for Europe next year. Hoping
...Show more

I found the eye/face tracking and AF I'm AF-c more than adequate for my three moving children (6, 5 and 3). Much more so than my X-T30ii. And hopefully it only will get better with firmware. I love my XT5 and think you'd be happy with the upgrade for the reasons you've stated. Also the AF capabilities is largely lens dependent. It's really great with the new 1.4's.



Jul 25, 2023 at 10:06 PM
molson
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


JustShootMe wrote:
Forums are good for extreme opinions , reality is the loudest mouths here have never shot with any of the cameras they are arguing about. Their decision is based on the opinions of others.



And I see a lot of new user accounts have suddenly appeared here, seemingly just to amplify the noise...



Jul 25, 2023 at 10:10 PM
papatonight
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Lesson learned here.. choose Sony for target that moves !!


Jul 25, 2023 at 10:18 PM
Junius Bobbledoonary
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking




cwmoros wrote:
I found the eye/face tracking and AF I'm AF-c more than adequate for my three moving children (6, 5 and 3). Much more so than my X-T30ii. And hopefully it only will get better with firmware. I love my XT5 and think you'd be happy with the upgrade for the reasons you've stated. Also the AF capabilities is largely lens dependent. It's really great with the new 1.4's.


Thatís great to hear. Iíll consider that making my decision.



Jul 25, 2023 at 10:54 PM
Junius Bobbledoonary
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking




papatonight wrote:
Lesson learned here.. choose Sony for target that moves !!


I may not be sold on an X-T5 but I would rather plunge my head into a bucket of boiling hot asphalt than buy a Sony camera.



Jul 25, 2023 at 10:55 PM
cwmoros
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking




Junius Bobbledoonary wrote:
Thatís great to hear. Iíll consider that making my decision.


There were some problem with C-AF and eye/face tracking before firmware 2.0. All of the complaints from those thread are pre 2.0 btw so that should be taken in consideration. By all accounts 2.0 greatly improved these issues. I can't comment on the improvement since I goty XT5 the day the fiware 2.0 was released so I know nothing else. And like I said is vastly superior to my X-T30ii.



Jul 25, 2023 at 11:26 PM
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