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X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking

  
 
jerredzphoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Hello, everyone! The purpose of this post is to NOT make people mad. Please - I LOVE my Fuji cameras. I want them to be a success, which is why I'm posting this. I want to see if other people with the X-H2 can replicate the problems I'm having, specifically to moving people using eye/face detection in continuous and tracking AF modes.

First of all, I've been shooting with Fuji for the past 9 years. I've shot hundreds of weddings, portraits and events with the system.

I know there are limitations with Fuji's autofocus, and I also know that the X-H2s is Fuji's "speed" camera with the stacked sensor, made for fast situations (I have it and it's great.)

However, with the X-H2, Fuji has made a promise that the AI autofocus will still do wonders for us, just not for the fastest of subjects.

Honestly, I'd expect the X-H2 to do as well as the Sony A7iv, and at the very least the Canon R7, which is an APSC sensor as well. (Neither of those have stacked sensors).

From what I'm seeing, the Fuji XH2, and therefore the X-T5, will not have reliable and accurate autofocus for slow-to-medium moving people when using eye autofocus. This would mean that the camera might be a poor choice for anyone shooting people who are moving, such as families, events, and weddings.

I posted a video about this, and people told me 1- I don't know what I'm doing. And 2 - my camera might be defective.

Look... I know what I'm doing. You can check my website if you don't believe me.

Also - I now have two XH2 cameras sitting on my desk because I was truly hoping my first XH2 was defective. But both cameras, both updated with the newest firmware, are giving me serious issues.

In every photo I take in my tests and portrait sessions, the Fuji gives me a "green light" box over the person's eye and/or face. It rarely "loses" them on the screen. When I first took the XH2 to several portrait sessions I was thrilled with the experience, thinking it was going to finally give me the results I had been getting for the past few years with Sony and Canon. Almost every shot in the camera LOOKED in focus, just as I have come to expect from Canon and Sony using very similar settings and shooting conditions.

However, when looking at the photos during editing, I can see that even when Fuji is telling me it's focusing perfectly, it's not.

I'm shooting in continuous autofocus mode, wide/tracking and face/eye detect. I've tried varying both the autofocus speed and tracking sensitivity to varying degrees and seen no discernible difference in results. I'm getting the same results with the 33mm, the 50-140, 90mm, 18mm (new), and others.

I made an Adobe Express Page (because the quality looks pretty good on a desktop) to show what I'm experiencing. Check out the gallery here: https://express.adobe.com/page/znrEr5Ju6R4xm/

I've done this test multiple times with both XH2 cameras. At the same time I'm also doing the same photos with the Sony A7iv and Canon R7, both of which perform absolutely wonderfully using similar setups on autofocus (tracking, continuous, eye/face).

Should we not expect the XH2 to at least perform as well as other non-stacked sensors in late 2022 and 2023 in situations like these, which are not at all difficult, and that many, many people might be facing in real-world situations?

 https://express.adobe.com/page/znrEr5Ju6R4xm/



Nov 05, 2022 at 08:12 AM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Have you tried limiting the auto focus area to something smaller than wide and retesting? I’ve never shot anything but Sony that was fully reliable in wide mode.


Nov 05, 2022 at 10:18 AM
bobby350z
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


You wonder why all youtubers just show that green box on the eye and never ever share any full res pictures In your shots, it is missing focus like my XT1 days. I don't think it can be that bad. How it is when compared to your other Fuji cameras?

Edited on Nov 05, 2022 at 10:42 AM · View previous versions



Nov 05, 2022 at 10:38 AM
CKrueger
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


You’re an experienced Fuji shooter, so I’m sure the answer is “of course”, but have you played with the AF tracking settings? It looks like the camera is on-target the majority of the time, but then does the customary Fuji “pulse” that drives the YouTube influencers crazy, where it hunts away and then locks back on occasionally. The AF tracking settings can help minimize this behavior… perhaps you might try experimenting there?

Another question… what Fuji cameras did you use before the XH2 and XH2S? Were your older cameras working well for you, too? Are you saying your XH2 is performing worse than your old cameras too? Or just not as well as your XH2S?

I ask because I have an XT4, and I’ve found it works well for your “accurate for slow/medium speed people” scenario. I’d estimate that if my Z9 hits 99%, my XT4 hits 90%. It’s good enough that I rarely miss a shot so long as I shoot dupe frames. I’d expect that the XH2 is better than the XT4, but not quite as good as the XH2S.

One other thought… does AF perform better/worse at certain frame rates or in mechanical vs electronic shutter? This camera is new, and I haven’t tested it personally… perhaps you’re shooting in some way that is a yet-unknown weakness of the camera?

As an aside, your bird-on-ground sequence is about the most challenging test I could imagine… the bird and the leaves are the same color, the head closely matches the pattern of the shadow areas, and there’s TONS of high-contrast detail behind the bird. I’m continually amazed by BEAF, but any camera is going to occasionally lose AF on that particular test, unless you were closer with a larger aperture lens (to cut the clutter and increase the bird’s apparent size).



Nov 05, 2022 at 10:39 AM
jerredzphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


CKrueger wrote:
You’re an experienced Fuji shooter, so I’m sure the answer is “of course”, but have you played with the AF tracking settings? It looks like the camera is on-target the majority of the time, but then does the customary Fuji “pulse” that drives the YouTube influencers crazy, where it hunts away and then locks back on occasionally. The AF tracking settings can help minimize this behavior… perhaps you might try experimenting there?

Another question… what Fuji cameras did you use before the XH2 and XH2S? Were your older cameras working well for you, too? Are you saying your XH2 is performing
...Show more

Hello! Yes, I tried adjusting both the tracking and speed tracking sensitivity. I've had the XT2, 3 and 4, XPro2 and 3 and at any wedding I've been at, I've had to be in tune with my autofocus settings especially.

My wife and son are refusing to go outside and help me any longer because we've been outside so many times doing my "tests" as I continue to drive myself mad.

Here's the thing though... let's say there is a magic combination of settings and lenses and conditions I haven't met for acceptable results... is that realistic to say that's okay? The Sony A7iv, the Canon R5,6,7 and 10 all work far better than this out of the box with only three setting changes: continuous, wide/tracking and eye/face focus. Then they just work. The XH2 is not doing this!

And I hear you about the bird on the ground shot. That's why I just threw it in there... but the A7iv in that same situation had at least double the "keepers" and the green box was telling me that I had way more in focus on the Fuji than what I was getting.

Maybe I'm expecting too much, and maybe Fuji isn't for me anymore if this has to become acceptable? That's why I'm struggling here!



Nov 05, 2022 at 10:49 AM
jerredzphoto
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


RoamingScott wrote:
Have you tried limiting the auto focus area to something smaller than wide and retesting? I’ve never shot anything but Sony that was fully reliable in wide mode.


Hey, my man! Yes, I've also tried "zone" focusing to "tell" the camera to only look in my box... without improved results.



Nov 05, 2022 at 10:55 AM
jerredzphoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


bobby350z wrote:
You wonder why all youtubers just show that green box on the eye and never ever share any full res pictures In your shots, it is missing focus like my XT1 days. I don't think it can be that bad. How it is when compared to your other Fuji cameras?


You know... I'm not sure. It seems worse, but I'm being ultra-critical here too. There's been plenty of out-of-focus or "nearly" out-of-focus shots on previous Fuji's that I've been "okay" with because there was no other choice. So as of now I'd say it seems worse, but I'm not sure.



Nov 05, 2022 at 10:57 AM
liggy
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Wait... Fuji has continuous af? j/k

If I really need images of something moving I'll grab a Sony. Never really use any of my Fujis for stuff that moves. That said I tried an XH2S in CAF and on birds and F18s it worked great. Haven't shot with an X-H2.

Just tried an X-T5 in single af with the 35 1.4 and 56 1.2 and they grabbed eyes on people that weren't moving quite well.

I would expect that they would be at least decent with a faster focusing lens in continuous focus but haven't tried that yet.

Hopefully will know in a couple of weeks when my silver X-T5 ships.



Nov 05, 2022 at 12:07 PM
jerredzphoto
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Nice, my man. Have fun with the X-T5 - looks beautiful!


Nov 05, 2022 at 12:14 PM
liggy
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


jerredzphoto wrote:
Nice, my man. Have fun with the X-T5 - looks beautiful!


I hope the issue is just your copy of the X-H2 and not representative of all the 40mp X cameras.
Fingers crossed!



Nov 05, 2022 at 12:38 PM
 


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RoamingScott
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Personally if I wanted to main system Fuji, I’d be using the XH2S for the stacked sensor’s AF performance. I don’t believe the effusive praise of the X-T5/X-H2 AF from the talking heads just yet, at least not in the sense that the Fuji 40mp sensor can somehow beat the latest Sony and Canon bodies.


Nov 05, 2022 at 03:51 PM
CKrueger
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


jerredzphoto wrote:
Hello! Yes, I tried adjusting both the tracking and speed tracking sensitivity. I've had the XT2, 3 and 4, XPro2 and 3 and at any wedding I've been at, I've had to be in tune with my autofocus settings especially.


So when you’ve been shooting weddings with those cameras, you find they performed well, but now the XH2 is NOT performing well? In other words, you find the XH2 WORSE than the XT4?

I think that’s a reality-check moment… think of it this way: a pile of people have used the XH2 thus far and haven’t said “they wrecked C-AF”, and Fuji themselves would have made a pretty big flub had they completely screwed up C-AF on their new camera. If you’re getting worse C-AF performance with the XH2 than with last-gen cameras, either:

1. The XH2 is flawed by design
2. Your XH2 has a hardware issue
3. Your XH2 has a configuration issue
4. Everyone is experiencing the XH2 being worse than last-gen cameras and is keeping quiet about it

I think #1 is extremely unlikely, or others would be reporting what you’re seeing.

I think #2 is somewhat unlikely on a mirrorless camera, where we no longer have separate AF sensor. But it is certainly possible!

#3 is the obvious first choice, but given that YouTube isn’t awash in people saying “I hated my XH2 until I learned THIS ONE TIP!”, and the fact that you’re an experienced Fuji shooter? Unlikely? Perhaps factory-reset the camera and try it without making any adjustments to be sure?

#4 is obviously silly. We are in an age of people seeing conspiracy theories under every rock, and this would be the silliest one of the year.

On the other hand, if your XH2 is better than your XT4, but not as good as the XH2S or other top-of-the-line cameras, I think most people would say “sounds feasible”. Sensor readout speed alone could account for that difference.

I just hope the actual difference is pretty small, cause I’m picking up an XT5 to replace my XT4 primarily for the improve subject detection AF!



Nov 06, 2022 at 09:09 AM
flash
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


RoamingScott wrote:
Personally if I wanted to main system Fuji, I’d be using the XH2S for the stacked sensor’s AF performance. I don’t believe the effusive praise of the X-T5/X-H2 AF from the talking heads just yet, at least not in the sense that the Fuji 40mp sensor can somehow beat the latest Sony and Canon bodies.


Haven't seen a single report that said that yet. Most, if not all comparisons say Sony/Canon still ahead but a decent step forward for Fujifilm. What I have seen is that the XH2 is actually close to the performance of the XH2S and there's no huge differences except in rolling shutter.

Gordon



Nov 06, 2022 at 02:23 PM
darthalal
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


That first sequence looks worse than anything I ever got from my X-T4, which I typically use with the same AF settings, and I already found frustrating vs Sony, etc. Without being in the same spot, though, I guess it's hard to say what would happen - do you still have the X-T4 to compare?

Your X-H2s doesn't behave like this, though?



Nov 09, 2022 at 10:17 AM
Bill C
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Thank you for taking the time to report the problems you are encountering. I'm finding the face/eye detect to be fast and accurate, however, that's mostly with stationary people. Have to ask .. FOCUS or RELEASE priority?


Nov 09, 2022 at 01:47 PM
southwoodlaker
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


I am using Canon R6 now. Eye focus is good. I am thinking going back to Fuji due to size, wight and cost. The X-T5 is on the way. Like to hear more first hand experience and feedback on this.


Nov 18, 2022 at 12:13 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Was watching a Lee Zavitz vid yesterday on the X-H2 and he commented that the AF box was all over the place especially in video, although the actual files were largely in focus.

It's interesting that OP's problem is largely the opposite.

Either way, if reliable AF is super important, sure doesn't seem like Fuji is choice #1 even coming into 2023.



Nov 18, 2022 at 01:03 PM
liggy
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Just got confirmation that my X-T5 is ready for pickup. Not expecting miracles but will find out shortly how much better it is than my X-H1 / X-T2. Not shooting video so I really don’t care if the video tracking is subpar.

I’ll be shooting a gala in a couple of weeks. Planning on the A1 70-200 GM MkII as the workhorse but if the eye af is good and the low light performance is good I’ll bring the X-T5 56 1.2 and 35 1.4 as the 2nd body/lens setup.

Fingers crossed.



Nov 18, 2022 at 02:15 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


😆 my XH2 even eye-focuses on a black iron horse statue when photo’g it. 😆


Nov 19, 2022 at 06:14 AM
JustShootMe
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · X-H2 (and therefore X-T5) Serious Autofocus Issues with Face/Eye Tracking


Bill C wrote:
Have to ask .. FOCUS or RELEASE priority?


very important question as is your AF settings , my experience shooting my mutts running full speed is the default settings with eye AF didn't cut it and some tweaking is needed. The lens matters as well, shooting a band performing the other night the XH2 didn't miss a shot except when the microphone got in the way,




Nov 19, 2022 at 08:13 AM
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