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Archive 2022 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?

  
 
Jeff Rogers
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


A few years ago I shot with a Hasselblad 50 megapixel body (before the XD) and lenses but switched over to the Nikon mirrorless system due to weight considerations, and honestly, I could not tell that much difference in the files. I have been using a Nikon Z7 since it came out and really love it, however a lot of my print work is being used bigger and bigger so I’m considering going back up to medium format. Is the Fuji GFX 100 S a big improvement for those of you that have moved up from full frame 45 megapixel sensors? I no longer have a studio and this camera would be for landscapes, usually mounted on a tripod.
Do you think this is overkill moving back up to medium format or should I just stick with Nikon and use topaz gigapixel when it needs to go bigger? Thanks for any wisdom.


Edited on Oct 30, 2022 at 03:28 PM · View previous versions



Oct 30, 2022 at 03:05 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


I think the GFX100s is a big step up from the 50mp 5DSR's that I have been using using since late 2015. How big are the prints you are making? And generally, the uprezzing programs do better when starting out with larger files to begin with.


Oct 30, 2022 at 03:12 PM
Jeff Rogers
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


I have had a lot of my work used for public displays as wide as 24 feet, on occasion. However, I’ve been selling a lot of prints on aluminum. The 20 x 30 prints look great but once they start getting 40 inches wide or so, I am not as impressed. Maybe most people wouldn’t notice a difference but I do.
Recently, I printed one of the Hasselblad 50 megapixel files and while it is hard to explain, it almost appeared as though it had more depth than what I am custom to seeing out of my Nikon 45 megapixel files.



Oct 30, 2022 at 03:32 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


It's hard to know just how it might do for your exact needs, but I've now made a bunch of 40 inch test prints from the 100s and they are looking better in terms of fine detail and graduations than both straight 5DSR prints and even 100mp 5DSR images done with shift-stitching with the Canon t/s lenses. I have no doubt that, with the proper lenses and post processing technique that you, being probably at least as picky as I am, will see a noticeable and real improvement. As for the ultra large prints, that's hard to predict because of printing type and viewing distances that can mitigate the differences between files of different sizes and detail. And since I don't know your typical focal length lens, you'd also have to figure out if there are equivalents available. There probably are but sometimes you need to be sitting down before looking at the price.


Oct 30, 2022 at 04:00 PM
Jeff Rogers
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Thanks Peter!


Oct 30, 2022 at 04:22 PM
kdphotography
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Shooting landscapes mostly, and often on a tripod? The Fuji GFX 100S is definitely the way to go. Even handheld, the GFX is still a great point-and-shoot camera. Most all the lenses are excellent. The GFX is the biggest bang for the buck in medium format digital, and makes shooting with medium format rather simplistic. I much prefer shooting a Phase digital back on a technical camera, but sometimes the GFX is just a better choice when traveling. Using Capture One for both systems makes everything easier.

And don't forget the format. I much prefer a 4:3 format over 3:2, especially for landscape photography.

ken

Edited on Oct 30, 2022 at 09:19 PM · View previous versions



Oct 30, 2022 at 06:56 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


A current thread (that I started) in the Canon forum touches on some of the relevant issues, and it may be interesting even to those who are not into Canon. I thought of trying to cross-post it here, but I'll just add this link: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1780268


Oct 30, 2022 at 07:36 PM
Jeff Rogers
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Gdanmitchell, thanks for that thread! That adds another level of confusion. . I appreciate you sharing it. Good food for thought.


Oct 31, 2022 at 07:05 AM
Creative Edge
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Jeff, I have both a Nikon Z9 and the GFX 100s. I have a wide format 44 printer and I prefer my GFX over the Nikon for large prints. Actually unless I am shooting sports my go to camera is the GFX, love the image quality out of that camera. The prints at 44 wide are jaw dropping with detail.


Oct 31, 2022 at 07:58 AM
Jeff Rogers
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Great news! I did not upgrade to the Z9 from the Z7 because while it is a spectacular camera, it did not seem to be a great advantage to the kind of work I am doing now. I really appreciate your hands on report!
By the way, have you tried any of the Nikon Z glass (S line) lenses on the GFX. I never thought that 35m type format lenses would have a large enough area of coverage for a mini medium format sensor, but some people are using Canon and other types of glass.



Oct 31, 2022 at 09:12 AM
Sauseschritt
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


The image circle of 36x24mm is ~43.3mm, the image circle of 44x33mm is (exactly) 55mm.

Its not such a huge difference, really.

So yes - a lot of small format lenses fully cover the GFX sensor, or only show compensateable amounts of vignetting.

You can also usually increase the image circle of a lens by stopping it down.

Alternatively you may use cropping, for example going for 1:1 or 2:3 etc.

If such small format lenses have the image quality a real medium format lens will offer is of course a different issue.



Oct 31, 2022 at 10:28 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Sauseschritt wrote:
The image circle of 36x24mm is ~43.3mm, the image circle of 44x33mm is (exactly) 55mm.

Its not such a huge difference, really.

So yes - a lot of small format lenses fully cover the GFX sensor, or only show compensateable amounts of vignetting.

You can also usually increase the image circle of a lens by stopping it down.

Alternatively you may use cropping, for example going for 1:1 or 2:3 etc.

If such small format lenses have the image quality a real medium format lens will offer is of course a different issue.


This is an important reminder that the difference in size between FF and miniFF is actually not as great as many imagine.

It actually lies only midway between FF and the 645, the smallest of the traditional film medium formats, and it isn't even close to the 6cm formats including 6x6 and the larger formats that place the image width along the length of the film, such as 6x9 and so forth.

This is both a plus and a minus. To the extent that people are looking for GFX to produce some ineffable quality associated with the much larger old-school film 6cm formats, that's not going to happen. On the other hand, because the format isn't really THAT big, Fujifilm could produce a bunch of lens types that were quite impractical when they had to cover that much larger image circle. The fact that some FF lenses already cover it acceptably is more proof of this.

Edited on Oct 31, 2022 at 10:38 AM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2022 at 10:36 AM
Jeff Rogers
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Thanks. I have always heard (back in the film days) that 35 mm lenses are actually sharper than MF lenses. Not sure if that is true and I have no experience with testing that.


Oct 31, 2022 at 10:37 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Jeff Rogers wrote:
Thanks. I have always heard (back in the film days) that 35 mm lenses are actually sharper than MF lenses. Not sure if that is true and I have no experience with testing that.


That is a very interesting subject.

Many FF lenses are extremely sharp, for sure. And some older true MF lenses are less sharp when measured on a line-pair-per-millimeter (lp/mm) basis.

However, there is something else to consider as you try to make sense of this. I refer to it as "system resolution," though maybe something like format-related resolution would also make sense.

Let's say that a lens resolves Y lines per millimeter of detail. Oh the horizontal axis (leaving out some variables to keep this simple), on a 36mm wide FF system an image could resolve y times 36 lines. However images made on a 33 x 44 system with the same lens (again, simplifying a bit) could resolve Y times 44 lines.

So the larger format can resolve more detail in the overall frame than in a smaller format with the same lens.

Of course, there are lots of other things to weigh here. How well does the lens perform in the far corners of that larger image? If the FF system already produced very good results (and it certainly can) will I actually see any real world difference in the photographs I create? What else might I have to give up to get this increases resolution — system speed, size/weight, cost, lens availability?

In the end, the important question is not necessarily "is A sharper than B?" This is especially true if both A and B are quite sharp enough, at which point other factors are really way more important considerations.

Dan



Oct 31, 2022 at 10:46 AM
Creative Edge
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Jeff Rogers wrote:
Great news! I did not upgrade to the Z9 from the Z7 because while it is a spectacular camera, it did not seem to be a great advantage to the kind of work I am doing now. I really appreciate your hands on report!
By the way, have you tried any of the Nikon Z glass (S line) lenses on the GFX. I never thought that 35m type format lenses would have a large enough area of coverage for a mini medium format sensor, but some people are using Canon and other types of glass.


Actually some of my favorite glass on the GFX is Adapted Canon glass.
I use the Canon EF16-35 2.8 III, Sigma Art 40mm 1.4 ef mount, Canon ef 300mm f4 IS, Canon 200mm 2.8 II, Sigma Art 135 1.8 EF. I find them to all be excellent on the GFX with the Fringer Pro adapter. I also have the Fringer adapter for using
the Canon glass on the z9. I love the sunstars the 16-35 produces so I use it on the Nikon.
In the end they are just tools and if it gets me the image I want, that is what I use.



Oct 31, 2022 at 11:16 AM
Makten
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Forget about using FF lenses if your goal with upgrading is to get better image quality. Aside from shift lenses (that inherently have a larger image circle), there are very few FF lenses that actually covers the sensor and gives reasonable image quality over the entire field. To me it makes no sense at all to buy a camera with a larger sensor and cripple it with lenses made for a smaller format. Unless you want heavy vignetting and all sorts of quirks, of course.

Also, Z lenses cannot be adapted to GFX since they would need to sit inside the bayonet of the larger mount. The flange distance is shorter than on GFX.

IMO the main benefit of the GFX system are the native lenses. Not the sensor.



Oct 31, 2022 at 11:20 AM
Jeff Rogers
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Excellent information Creative Edge. Thanks!


Oct 31, 2022 at 11:21 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Makten wrote:
Forget about using FF lenses if your goal with upgrading is to get better image quality. Aside from shift lenses (that inherently have a larger image circle), there are very few FF lenses that actually covers the sensor and gives reasonable image quality over the entire field. To me it makes no sense at all to buy a camera with a larger sensor and cripple it with lenses made for a smaller format. Unless you want heavy vignetting and all sorts of quirks, of course.

Also, Z lenses cannot be adapted to GFX since they would need to sit inside
...Show more

Simply not the case in many well documented cases.




Oct 31, 2022 at 11:24 AM
Makten
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Peter Figen wrote:
Simply not the case in many well documented cases.



Can you show me some of these well documented cases? I mean, of course there are exceptions, but most FF lenses fail miserably when it comes to across-the-frame good performance for landscapes and similar.

Edit: And remember the OP is someone who wants better than FF performance. Not just simply OK-ish.



Oct 31, 2022 at 11:26 AM
Jeff Rogers
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · GFX100s vs 45mp in Nikon/Sony?


Thanks Makten. Yes, I am picky and want to produce the best images possible but still weighing options and best use of my money before the economy does who knows what!!


Oct 31, 2022 at 11:34 AM
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