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RF 24-105 question

  
 
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · RF 24-105 question


It is all about compromises.

I have nothing to offer specifically regarding the RF 24-105's optical performance. (My wife is also a photographer, and she does good work with it and likes it a lot, though I haven't "tested" her lens or image files.)

I did have the old EF 24-105 that was so often maligned by folks in forums. One thing I learned from those discussions is that people often let their partisanship get ahead of the facts, overstating either the minuses or pluses of such lenses.

Although it won't shed any light on the actual technical details and performance of the new lens, an article that I wrote about that earlier lens may give some context for parsing the forum discussions of the newer model... and of other lenses.

Let's say that the new 24-105 is a good optical performer, though potential exceeded by some other options such as the best 24-70mm lenses. Let's say that IS is a valuable feature for you and that the additional focal length range makes the lens useful in more situations. Further, let's say that you can do quite well with f/4, especially with IS.

Now things become a bit more interesting and less definitive.

All lenses (and photographic gear in general) comes with pluses and minuses relative to other options.

Dan



Sep 23, 2022 at 10:14 AM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · RF 24-105 question




gdanmitchell wrote:
It is all about compromises.

I have nothing to offer specifically regarding the RF 24-105's optical performance. (My wife is also a photographer, and she does good work with it and likes it a lot, though I haven't "tested" her lens or image files.)

I did have the old EF 24-105 that was so often maligned by folks in forums. One thing I learned from those discussions is that people often let their partisanship get ahead of the facts, overstating either the minuses or pluses of such lenses.

Although it won't shed any light on the actual technical details and performance of
...Show more

I found the EF 24-105 barrel distortion at 24mm unacceptable on a FF. Brutal for group shots. Even lens corrections never saved it IMO.



Sep 23, 2022 at 10:41 AM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · RF 24-105 question



Zenon Char wrote:
I found the EF 24-105 barrel distortion at 24mm unacceptable on a FF. Brutal for group shots. Even lens corrections never saved it IMO.


Was that due to FL or regular distortion though? I shot a group holiday photo using 11-16 one time, 16mm is 25mm FF equivalent. So probably about the same ff equivalent. Not doing that again, I think the people on the edges kinda eggheaded or something. Used to Like 35mm FF equivalent or more, suppose one can go wider though



Sep 23, 2022 at 12:01 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · RF 24-105 question


Zenon Char wrote:
I found the EF 24-105 barrel distortion at 24mm unacceptable on a FF. Brutal for group shots. Even lens corrections never saved it IMO.


That was perhaps the most obvious weakness of that lens, along with vignetting wide open at the short end. (Well, OK, I did not appreciate the tendency of the lens's zoom mechanism to loosen over time and then let the lens extend under its own weight when pointing down. But I digress...)

Fortunately, it was/is easy and effective to counteract the barrel distortion in post for shots where it is visible. This is pretty automatic with the Adobe lens profiles. (To answer the possible reply in advance, I did some fairly extensive testing of the effect of barrel correction in post, and it is highly effective and doesn't degrade the image in a visible way at all.)



Sep 23, 2022 at 01:21 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · RF 24-105 question


I may not seem like much but even with LR's lens corrections people on the outsides never looked right to me. They weren't perfect but much better.

Source

https://opticallimits.com








EF 24-105







EF 24-70 II




Sep 23, 2022 at 01:35 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · RF 24-105 question


I rented this lens once for a trip to British Columbia. Oh yeah.







Sep 23, 2022 at 01:39 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · RF 24-105 question


RF 20-70









Sep 23, 2022 at 01:43 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · RF 24-105 question


Sometimes it is not about testing, etc. You look at your images and you just know. Kinda like L and non L lenses. Optional quality has improved a lot but my L vs non L refers to over 10 years ago. There was just something about an L lens. The contrast, etc due to the fluorite. Still is today.


Sep 23, 2022 at 01:54 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · RF 24-105 question



Zenon Char wrote:
I may not seem like much but even with LR's lens corrections people on the outsides never looked right to me. They weren't perfect but much better.

Source

https://opticallimits.com



Right, I think that's more due to the FL, though. I'd try to avoid putting people on the edges on 24mm. Although 28mm you might be OK.

The 11-16 has pretty minimal distortion. Optical limits tested it too, I think half a percent at 16mm or something? Really low. One of the things I liked about the lens. But people still looked funky on the edges.

Interesting lens corrections didn't clean it up. Had wondered about that, I've often tried to use 35mm or more for people, 28mm might be OK.



Sep 23, 2022 at 02:14 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · RF 24-105 question


Zenon Char wrote:
I may not seem like much but even with LR's lens corrections people on the outsides never looked right to me...


You aren't contradicting the fundamentals of my earlier post. I wrote that the barrel distortion at 24mm "was perhaps the most obvious weakness of that lens, along with vignetting wide open at the short end."

So, clearly, there are other lenses that don't vignette as much, and other lenses that have larger maximum apertures and greater resolution.

So stipulated.

But it may be that you are missing my point.

In many situations the original, maligned 24-105mm f/4L IS, as I described in the article I linked to earlier, is a wonderful lens whose pluses can, for the right photographer and in the right circumstances, outweigh its minuses.

The 24-105mm range adds flexibility that the fine 24-70mm lenses (one of which I also own) don't have. In many cases, the 105mm focal length is just enough to make this usable as a one-lens-only tool in a lot of situations. (I used it that way on a long backcountry trip in the Sierra some years back.)

The T/S lens you mention is a stellar optical performer, but it is unlikely to be the lens most photographers will want on their cameras in all but some rather specialized situations. It also doesn't perform well at other focal lengths in the 24-105mm range... ;-)

The image stabilization makes the lens hand-holdable in lower light than the non-IS 24-70mm f/2.8. This saved me more than once when I had to make quick photographs in failing light — and I've sold/licensed images that I would have missed if I did not have that lens on the camera in such situations. (Yes, the f/2.8 lenses will "stop" action better in low light.)

As a person who used the L version a lot and who went to some effort to test the effects of post-processing correction for things like barrel distortion, I simply don't agree with your subjective thinking about the potential downsides of correction in post. I've found that the results of the small changes that these corrections require are generally completely invisible.

Is this the "best lens?" The question is only meaningful with a context. Is it the best lens for 24mm architectural photography? Not likely, and that T/S might be just right for such use. Is it the best lens for photographers who want a good zoom with IS and a reasonably large focal length range? For some folks it will be just right and the pluses more significant than the minuses. Might a 24-70mm f/2.8 be a better choice? For some users, certainly. (Keep in mind that all lenses have both pluses and minuses, and that their significance depends a lot on the use they will be put to.)

Given that the newer 24-105 lenses, by all reports, is a better performer in several ways than the older L lens, this type of lens is likely to be a fine choice for a lot of photographers who needs match up with its strengths.

YMMV,

Dan

Edited on Sep 24, 2022 at 04:28 PM · View previous versions



Sep 23, 2022 at 05:42 PM
 


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Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · RF 24-105 question


I think this thread illustrates the range of needs or desires of us photographers. I am still happy with the results I'm getting with the original 24-105 I've been using since 2006. Its on its fourth 5D version now and still giving me lovely colors, contrast, and sharpness. Perhaps I'm oblivious to its CA or uncorrected distortions and I'm not being critical of those whose needs are more demanding. With the original 5D I could see some corner smearing when corrections are applied but since the 5D2, nothing to complain about. It is my most used lens, I'm still happy with it. I also have the 24-70 f4 L that I use with my 6D2. Its a bit lighter and goes into macro mode without lens changes. Where they overlap I can't see any difference in the images. Just another perspective. So far I'm not feeling any need to upgrade my FF kit to mirrorless for what I use FF for.


Sep 23, 2022 at 06:38 PM
Mike_5D
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · RF 24-105 question


Jeff Nolten wrote:
I think this thread illustrates the range of needs or desires of us photographers. I am still happy with the results I'm getting with the original 24-105 I've been using since 2006. Its on its fourth 5D version now and still giving me lovely colors, contrast, and sharpness. Perhaps I'm oblivious to its CA or uncorrected distortions and I'm not being critical of those whose needs are more demanding. With the original 5D I could see some corner smearing when corrections are applied but since the 5D2, nothing to complain about. It is my most used lens, I'm still
...Show more

A lot of people spend too much time nit picking the gear. I had an EF 24-105L too. I used it for years before selling it to fund a 24-70 2.8 II. Now that I have an R6, I have added an RF 24-105 STM and RF 24-240. I also have a 70-200 2.8 II. That's a lot of overlap but all of them are great in their own ways. No one has ever told me a photo would have been perfect if only I'd have used the more expensive lens. If people complain about small technical issues, your photo wasn't that interesting. Buy the lens that fits your needs and go have fun shooting.



Sep 23, 2022 at 08:39 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · RF 24-105 question


gdanmitchell wrote:
You aren't contradicting the fundamentals of my earlier post. I wrote that the barrel distortion at 24mm "was perhaps the most obvious weakness of that lens, along with vignetting wide open at the short end."

So, clearly, there are other lenses that don't vignette as much, and other lenses that have larger maximum apertures and greater resolution.

So stipulated.

But it may be that you are missing my point.

In many situations the original, maligned 24-105mm f/4L IS, as I described in the article I linked to earlier, is a wonderful lens whose pluses can, for the right photographer and in the
...Show more

Thanks for the excellent summary.



Sep 23, 2022 at 10:37 PM
Sy Sez
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · RF 24-105 question


I previously owned an EF 24-105 V1, that was quite good, though not nearly up to the IQ of my EF 16-35F4L.

My RF 24-105F4L is considerably sharper than my former EF version, and I'm quite satisfied with its IQ, but if the RF run suffers the same inconsistency as the former EF runs, it will be a "crap-shoot" as to whether you get a "good" one.



Sep 24, 2022 at 02:07 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · RF 24-105 question


I believe I have a good v1 24-105, its images compare well to those of my 16-35 f4. The 16-35 is certainly better at 24 than the 24-105 is.


Sep 24, 2022 at 03:32 PM
Mike_5D
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · RF 24-105 question


Jeff Nolten wrote:
I believe I have a good v1 24-105, its images compare well to those of my 16-35 f4. The 16-35 is certainly better at 24 than the 24-105 is.


True. I have 4 lenses that can do 24 mm. But 3 of the 4 are at their lower limit at 24 mm so I'd reach for the 16-35 f/4 if sharpness were the top consideration.



Sep 24, 2022 at 09:11 PM
rustum
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · RF 24-105 question


Zenon Char wrote:
That’s about right. My EF 24-70 II blew me away compared to the EF 24-105 F4. If I was doing critical work I would have the RF 24-70 .

Is RF24-70 significantly better than EF 24-70 II. I am thinking of buying a used copy of EF version and sell my 24-70 f/4 version to take pictures (family/groups portraits) under lights at school events. RF one is very expensive compared to used copies of EF.



Oct 04, 2022 at 08:19 PM
SameerTuladhar
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · RF 24-105 question


rustum wrote:
Is RF24-70 significantly better than EF 24-70 II. I am thinking of buying a used copy of EF version and sell my 24-70 f/4 version to take pictures (family/groups portraits) under lights at school events. RF one is very expensive compared to used copies of EF.


I don't know about the RF 24-70 f/2.8 vs EF 24-70 f/2.8L II, but I had the 24-70 f/4 version which I wasn't happy with except for food photography. I do events too (family/group) but the f/4 never had that 'oomph'. I sold it and started saving for the RF 24-70 f/2.8 (I use an EOS R). A friend of mine wanted to sell his EF 24-70 f/2.8L II and I grabbed it for $500 (!!). It had a small scratch on the lens (which doesn't show up even at f/11) and the hood was missing.

Compared to the f/4, this lens is SHARP! Even f/2.8 is prime lens sharp. Not kidding. I own a EF 35mm f/1.4L II so I know a bit about image sharpness. And better colors/contrast than the f/4. There's something about it, just better. Don't know how to explain it.... English isn't my first language. :-)

I was having seller's remorse when I sold my f/4, but once I got the 24-70 II, not anymore.



Oct 07, 2022 at 09:47 AM
Jesse Evans
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · RF 24-105 question


The RF 24-70 f/2.8L IS is not significantly better than the EF version save for 2 factors:

It has IS.
It has Nano USM making it faster / quieter / better for video.

It also focuses more closely.

All in all not really a huge upgrade.

But I love mine 😄



Oct 07, 2022 at 10:27 AM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · RF 24-105 question


One website tested the older EF 24-105 and got 50-55 lp/mm IIRC. So that's good enough, probably even to print large, but there are sharper lenses out there.

So I suspect there's more a difference of opinion on whether a lens is sharp or not, depending on what you compare it to and your definition of sharp than copy variations. It's kind of in that good enough but not great range. 50mm lenses generally get 63 lp/mm and up on the old tests, some lenses over 80lp/mm, and occasionally something is 90lp/mm.
But 24-105 v1 really quite large range, most of the larger ranges of the day only 28mm on the wide end. So the performance is reasonable.

The 24-70/4 should be pretty close to 2.8 v2 performance, I'd think. I'd have to think it might be damaged if there's a huge difference.



Oct 09, 2022 at 10:51 AM
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