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Archive 2022 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

eyal
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

I'm a landscape photographer but have been shooting high school football since last year. Love the change and the challenges. Shooting with the Sony a1 and 70-200/2.8.

Appreciate critiques. Hope I'm not sharing too many shots. It was a crazy game and I was in the right spot more times than not.

Blocked punt

Incredible concentration for this catch

Have the next frame with ball in hand but prefer this one with the anticipation

Fumble recovery for TD

Sep 17, 2022 at 10:27 AM

J. Pow
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Those are some great action shots! What was your ISO and SS on these?

Joel

Sep 17, 2022 at 10:35 AM

eyal
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

J. Pow wrote:
Those are some great action shots! What was your ISO and SS on these?

Joel

Thanks Joel

I shoot in manual with iris lock on the lens at 2.8 (made the mistake of rotating the aperture ring once) and set shutter at 1/1600 but have decreased to 1/1250 as the games goes on. ISO varies but EXIF attached to the shots so can see if there is a specific one. I just used LR's noise reduction at 25 for luminance and it looks fine for web.

If I were to print, would run through Topaz denoise.

Edit: guess they aren't linked. Here is the album with Exif - https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjA7oxv

Sep 17, 2022 at 12:02 PM

J. Pow
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

eyal wrote:
Thanks Joel

I shoot in manual with iris lock on the lens at 2.8 (made the mistake of rotating the aperture ring once) and set shutter at 1/1600 but have decreased to 1/1250 as the games goes on. ISO varies but EXIF attached to the shots so can see if there is a specific one. I just used LR's noise reduction at 25 for luminance and it looks fine for web.

If I were to print, would run through Topaz denoise.

Edit: guess they aren't linked. Here is the album with Exif - https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjA7oxv

Great gallery! My good friend shots with an A1 and I shoot with a Canon R3. We shot the same game head to head with comparable results. The thing about Sony is the MPX. You can dig in a bit more. I found that shooting at about 1250th of a second puts me around 8000 to 12500 ISO. I really like results at that ISO range.

Well done! Joel

Sep 17, 2022 at 02:58 PM

schlotz
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Yeah, a bit tough when the reach is limited. Even more so with poorly lit fields and the need to crop tighter in order to eliminate negative space. Agree with getting the SS down to 1250, but with this lit field you might consider dropping to 1000. Given the limited reach, suggest filling the frame by concentrating on close action only. JMTC

Sep 18, 2022 at 08:10 AM

eyal
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

schlotz wrote:
Yeah, a bit tough when the reach is limited. Even more so with poorly lit fields and the need to crop tighter in order to eliminate negative space. Agree with getting the SS down to 1250, but with this lit field you might consider dropping to 1000. Given the limited reach, suggest filling the frame by concentrating on close action only. JMTC

Thank you!

So if you don't mind I'll ask you about tighter shots (such as with a 300 or 400mm). I tried the latter in a pro stadium last year and found it incredibly limiting. Single player shots were fine as were running plays and tackles inside the box. But pass plays were near impossible.

There were some pro photographers at the game from local papers with most sporting Nikon bodies and the 300/2.8 but, in looking at their images, I found they didn't have most of the pass plays covered.

Example - https://www.salemnews.com/community/slideshow-marblehead-magicians-beat-lynnfield-pioneers-in-football-26-18/collection_b11848e0-362e-11ed-afad-3fc3bb83aa4f.html#3

Is that a correct assessment of those lenses and limitations?

Sep 18, 2022 at 09:41 AM

cocodrillo
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

With the latest generation of camera bodies pushing out to 10K ISO really isn't a problem even with something as elementary as PS reduce colour noise in the raw conversion. It becomes almost irrelevant if the end use is going to be in a digital format.

On the C&C, you've got good photos to illustrate a story of the game. If that's the goal then you're on target, although cropping tighter would good if possible. My personal approach, and this is permitted by the kind of work I do, is to always aim to have eyes in the frame, preferably looking down the lens barrel. One way to get this with shorter glass is to shoot from pretty much at the line of scrimmage. You'll get backs and quarterbacks looking more or less at you as they try to get round the line. You'll also get the receivers looking back towards you to make the catch or just after the catch as they try to turn upfield. If the QB is being sacked you're almost perfectly placed to capture it.

Shooting with the big lenses does take practice and often means setting up in different places. I usually shoot football (albeit the Canadian 3 down variety) with a 600, which means I'm set up all on my own away from everyone else who is using a 300 or 400. What I get from this is almost like a window directly into the line of scrimmage. When I'm shooting the D-Line or linebackers it is fantastic for flipping to the corners to get receivers making catches.

Lots of way to skin this cat. The question is what are you trying to capture with the images? (I'm usually a total failure on telling the play-by-play story of a game).

Sep 18, 2022 at 01:59 PM

eyal
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

cocodrillo wrote:
With the latest generation of camera bodies pushing out to 10K ISO really isn't a problem even with something as elementary as PS reduce colour noise in the raw conversion. It becomes almost irrelevant if the end use is going to be in a digital format.

On the C&C, you've got good photos to illustrate a story of the game. If that's the goal then you're on target, although cropping tighter would good if possible. My personal approach, and this is permitted by the kind of work I do, is to always aim to have eyes in the frame, preferably looking...Show more →

This is great - thank you.

I am definitely missing action on the line with my approach but do like the storytelling aspect. Looking to come away with 20-30 defining moments from each game rather than the Pro goal of 2-5 I guess.

My only other lens is the Sony 100-400 which is too slow for night games and, even during JV day games, I found I prefer the 70-200 for its 2.8 and better isolation from the rest of the field/stands.

Sep 18, 2022 at 02:55 PM

schlotz
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

eyal wrote:
Thank you!

So if you don't mind I'll ask you about tighter shots (such as with a 300 or 400mm). I tried the latter in a pro stadium last year and found it incredibly limiting. Single player shots were fine as were running plays and tackles inside the box. But pass plays were near impossible.

There were some pro photographers at the game from local papers with most sporting Nikon bodies and the 300/2.8 but, in looking at their images, I found they didn't have most of the pass plays covered.

Example - https://www.salemnews.com/community/slideshow-marblehead-magicians-beat-lynnfield-pioneers-in-football-26-18/collection_b11848e0-362e-11ed-afad-3fc3bb83aa4f.html#3

Is that a correct assessment of those lenses and limitations?

@cocodrillo said it. It takes a considerable amount of practice to effectively use the big lenses, pass plays included. Knowing the players and deciding when to swing over to a potential receiver is a learned skill.

Sep 18, 2022 at 03:05 PM

kreegerk
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

eyal wrote:
... I am definitely missing action on the line with my approach but do like the storytelling aspect.

Given what you said above, and looking at your full set on your web site, you have a good eye. My suggestion is to get lower to the ground than you are shooting now. Eliminate as much of the field background from the bottom of the image as you can without loosing context of the action. Try sitting or kneeling down when you shoot next time and see if you like the difference.

To me the athlete looks more impressive when you are looking at / or / up at them directly, you can tell the story with a big lens or a short lens, it just takes practice to learn to "see" with a big prime compared to a shorter tele-zoom like the 70-200mm.

NIKON D5 400.0 mm f/2.8 lens 400mm f/2.8 1/2000s 1800 ISO +0.3 EV

Sep 20, 2022 at 05:41 PM

pulper11
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Hi Eyal:
I've shot some college football in the past and have been blest of course with some great lighting there. Unfortunately you don't have that in that game so that makes it a little (or a lot) tougher.

A few critiques:
I definitely agree with @kreegerk. Get low to the ground. While this might change when I use a longer lens, for my 70-180/70-200, I'm on my knees for each shot.

Regarding where you are shooting from, I prefer to shoot in front of or behind the line of scrimmage. That depends if I'm concentrating on the defense or the offense for that series. Images 2, 4, and 5 are fine but IMO would be significantly improved if the action is coming at you rather than going away. That helps getting players eyes and faces in the image, helps getting the ball in the image (rather than hidden or only slightly visible), which leads to a much better focus on the image. The viewer doesn't have to look as hard at the image to understand what is happening.

With a 70-180 or 70-200 lens, once the play is at the 15 yard line or closer, I go into the end zone and shoot from there. Again, trying to get the action coming toward me.

I find it significantly harder to shoot with it coming at you, but with a lot of practice I've gotten better.

Best of luck! Sports photography is a lot of fun.

Sep 21, 2022 at 10:08 AM

JRobertson
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Please don't take this as harsh, it's not meant to be. If your desire is to get better then here are some suggestions.

If you can get low, shoot lower looking up at the athletes. Fill your entire frame, don't "reach". This will give you cleaner images always. Up your exposure comp, too many dark shadows on the athletes faces. Stay in front of the action, capture the runs. Behind the action, capture the throws/catches. And the number one rule, no shots of the backs or sides of athletes. Action should be head on, or at least 75% head on. Don't try to make an image out of nothing, if you don't get a great catch because you're in front of the action and all you see is backs, it happens. Let the action come to you, always.

Sep 21, 2022 at 11:12 AM

eyal
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

pulper11 wrote:
Hi Eyal:
I've shot some college football in the past and have been blest of course with some great lighting there. Unfortunately you don't have that in that game so that makes it a little (or a lot) tougher.

A few critiques:
I definitely agree with @kreegerk. Get low to the ground. While this might change when I use a longer lens, for my 70-180/70-200, I'm on my knees for each shot.

Regarding where you are shooting from, I prefer to shoot in front of or behind the line of scrimmage. That depends if I'm concentrating on the defense or the offense for...Show more →

---------------------------------------------

JRobertson wrote:
Please don't take this as harsh, it's not meant to be. If your desire is to get better then here are some suggestions.

If you can get low, shoot lower looking up at the athletes. Fill your entire frame, don't "reach". This will give you cleaner images always. Up your exposure comp, too many dark shadows on the athletes faces. Stay in front of the action, capture the runs. Behind the action, capture the throws/catches. And the number one rule, no shots of the backs or sides of athletes. Action should be head on, or at least 75% head on. Don't...Show more →

Thank you both!

Really don't mind harsh critiques so I appreciate everything you wrote.

On defensive series, I tend to stay at the line of scrimmage and hope to capture players breaking through the line or making tackles coming towards me.

On offense, I'm usually 10-15 yards ahead of the line of scrimmage trying to get the action coming to me and/or capture a longer pass.

The action coming towards me makes a ton of sense and now I can wrap my head around the use of a 300/400 lens. I'm guessing you hang out 30 yards forward of line of scrimmage.

As for end zone, yes, I move there as soon as the teams enters within 20-25 yards.

Will definitely drop lower and see where that gets me.

Thanks again!

Sep 21, 2022 at 06:14 PM

Fish On
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Sorry, but too many backs for me in your samples. Doesn’t do anything for me.

Sep 22, 2022 at 01:33 PM

jake14mw
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Thanks for sharing your shots. I think you are doing a very good job documenting the game or catching the action. When people ask you about what you are trying to accomplish, it's because there can be different goals of the pictures. If someone is a journalist, then I think the goal is to try and capture everything and tell the story. If you are taking photos because it's your kid playing, you usually want to capture everything, with an angle of trying to position yourself in the best position to capture your kid's action. On the other hand, if you are trying to sell photos to parents or others, while capturing all of the plays of the game is nice, it's more important to do all the things most are telling you to do here to get faces, and get lower, etc, to bring the photos to another level.

I'm trying to learn this process now, capturing my son's games. It's not easy. I find that the toughest thing to do is to try and capture both the throw and the catch on pass plays. If you are filling the frame, it's very tough to react quickly and be accurate. Looks like you are off to a good start here, good luck.

Sep 23, 2022 at 08:56 AM

Herb
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Definitely need subject to fill up the lens more…they are too small…crop them. If you had a R5 you could crop and not miss anything!

Sep 29, 2022 at 09:21 PM

Herb
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Like this….

Sep 29, 2022 at 09:23 PM

Herb
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Or this…

Sep 29, 2022 at 09:25 PM

eyal
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · High School Football - second game of season. Appreciate critiques

Herb wrote:
Definitely need subject to fill up the lens more…they are too small…crop them. If you had a R5 you could crop and not miss anything!

Appreciate the comments but will respectfully disagree with the two crops - in the first, I wanted to keep both defenders in the frame to show that the pass was caught in double coverage. In the second, cropping out the background player with his arms up takes away from the excitement of the shot and the realization he stretched for a TD.

I've shot two more games since and have taken a lot of the above to heart.

Shooting on my knees (with knee pads) and aiming for tighter shots including this one from last night's game:

A1-0044343.jpg by Eyal Oren, on Flickr

Yes, I could crop it a bit more but like the field marker for placement.

And this one (a miss but emblematic of the night the team had) where I was a bit too tight on the player but chose to leave in his teammate on the far sideline and, again, the surrounding defenders:

A1-0045809.jpg by Eyal Oren, on Flickr

Oct 01, 2022 at 06:48 AM


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