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Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?

  
 
helimat
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p.15 #1 · p.15 #1 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


I agree with Allen - Issues can arise with any mechanical device, I have picked up $3.5m helicopters from the factory that had to have defects rectified prior to departure. That does not excuse the 6 week turn-around time, however.


Jan 04, 2023 at 10:16 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.15 #2 · p.15 #2 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Agree. At least with Canon (CPS) the time things got straightened out was days not weeks. But having said that i had far more issues with my Canons than I have had with my Leica's and that would include the sensor recall.


Jan 04, 2023 at 10:20 AM
Desmolicious
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p.15 #3 · p.15 #3 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


There is an ongoing thread on l-camera forum about my scratching M6. You of course have the fan bois demanding the thread be closed because it has to be user error..
With the limited data and resources on hand I have asked anyone on that site who has the new M6 to report on any issues.
Out of a total of seven 2022 M6s, four scratch film and three are ok. I know of two other owners on the site but so far they have not responded.
Yes this is a very small sampling but it is the only data point that we have at the moment. Either way it is extremely disappointing on so many levels given the price point and those little quality check cards they pack with the camera.
The camera is an absolute joy to use and so I am looking forward to getting it back hopefully soon. I am lucky though to have a bunch of other - perfectly working! - film Ms to use in the mean time but I feel for those for whom this is the only one.
I also have a feeling that there are a bunch of unreported ones because the buyer just wanted the camera, didnít really plan on using it, and may not even notice the scratches. And if they do, may think that is just film photography!



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:26 AM
Desmolicious
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p.15 #4 · p.15 #4 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


helimat wrote:
I agree with Allen - Issues can arise with any mechanical device, I have picked up $3.5m helicopters from the factory that had to have defects rectified prior to departure. That does not excuse the 6 week turn-around time, however.


It was the cup holders, wasnít it?



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:28 AM
helimat
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p.15 #5 · p.15 #5 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Desmolicious wrote:
There is an ongoing thread on l-camera forum about my scratching M6. You of course have the fan bois demanding the thread be closed because it has to be user error..
With the limited data and resources on hand I have asked anyone on that site who has the new M6 to report on any issues.
Out of a total of seven 2022 M6s, four scratch film and three are ok. I know of two other owners on the site but so far they have not responded.
Yes this is a very small sampling but it is the only data point that
...Show more

That is really lame. I wonder what went on - I could somewhat understand if they had stopped making film cameras for some time and missed a detail revamping the assembly line... But the MP & M-A haven't really had similar issues, have they?



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:32 AM
helimat
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p.15 #6 · p.15 #6 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Desmolicious wrote:
It was the cup holders, wasnít it?


Among other defects.... But that's definitely the one that got the pilots most excited.



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:32 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.15 #7 · p.15 #7 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Huss have they (Leica) said what the issue is? Sounds like there is something sharp where it's not supposed to be? I used to scratch film all the the time but usually when I was coming out of the photoflo and the film emulsion was still soft from being in the wash. When I squeegeed the negs after the photoflo bingo scratch. Until I started using my fingers instead of an actual squeegee. That seemed to do the trick.


Jan 04, 2023 at 10:37 AM
Desmolicious
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p.15 #8 · p.15 #8 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


helimat wrote:
That is really lame. I wonder what went on - I could somewhat understand if they had stopped making film cameras for some time and missed a detail revamping the assembly line... But the MP & M-A haven't really had similar issues, have they?


actually there have been a batch of scratching MPs in the last few years. It seemed dependent on production run, which makes this issue all the more frustrating as it is obvious that Leica did not bother to learn from that and improve their process.
The cynic in me would suggest they just ran the numbers and decided given the number of complaints to do what is cheaper and address those on a case by case basis, than go back and address the root issue.





Jan 04, 2023 at 10:39 AM
helimat
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p.15 #9 · p.15 #9 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Desmolicious wrote:
actually there have been a batch of scratching MPs in the last few years. It seemed dependent on production run, which makes this issue all the more frustrating as it is obvious that Leica did not bother to learn from that and improve their process.
The cynic in me would suggest they just ran the numbers and decided given the number of complaints to do what is cheaper and address those on a case by case basis, than go back and address the root issue.


Oh shitty. I've been thinking of picking up a MP sometime in the near future (among other things of course) so that is good to know to look out for that issue.

Hopefully they exceed expectations and get it back to you quicker than anticipated & working like a top. Looking forward to seeing the great work we all know you'll do with it once it's back in your hands.



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:44 AM
Desmolicious
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p.15 #10 · p.15 #10 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


airfrogusmc wrote:
Huss have they (Leica) said what the issue is? Sounds like there is something sharp where it's not supposed to be? I used to scratch film all the the time but usually when I was coming out of the photoflo and the film emulsion was still soft from being in the wash. When I squeegeed the negs after the photoflo bingo scratch. Until I started using my fingers instead of an actual squeegee. That seemed to do the trick.


Have not heard back but Iím pretty sure it is the pressure plate, as others who have had MPs doing the exact same thing in the past reported a new pressure plate fixed it. All these cameras are basically the same under the hood.
All the rolls put through the camera had the scratches in the same place, one roll was developed at my local shop to rule out it being me developing it. Different types of film. The last roll I did not even develop it, just wound it through the camera and then checked it. Scratches in the same place. Wish I tested it like that right at the beginning instead of shooting and dev film!



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:45 AM
 


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airfrogusmc
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p.15 #11 · p.15 #11 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Wasn't that the AMF/Harley biz model (1970s) until it almost sent then down in flames. Lets hope Leica isn't going down that road.


Jan 04, 2023 at 10:46 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.15 #12 · p.15 #12 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


It makes one wonder; if the plates are the problem then shouldn't they make sure the paltes are right before they are installed?


Jan 04, 2023 at 10:49 AM
Desmolicious
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p.15 #13 · p.15 #13 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


helimat wrote:
Oh shitty. I've been thinking of picking up a MP sometime in the near future (among other things of course) so that is good to know to look out for that issue.

Hopefully they exceed expectations and get it back to you quicker than anticipated & working like a top. Looking forward to seeing the great work we all know you'll do with it once it's back in your hands.


Easy to test. Have a cheap roll of sacrificial film handy, wind it through, pull it out and check for scratches. Easier to see on undeveloped film.



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:53 AM
Desmolicious
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p.15 #14 · p.15 #14 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


airfrogusmc wrote:
It makes one wonder; if the plates are the problem then shouldn't they make sure the paltes are right before they are installed?


Right? SighÖ..



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:55 AM
helimat
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p.15 #15 · p.15 #15 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Desmolicious wrote:
Easy to test. Have a cheap roll of sacrificial film handy, wind it through, pull it out and check for scratches. Easier to see on undeveloped film.


You bet



Jan 04, 2023 at 10:55 AM
retrofocus
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p.15 #16 · p.15 #16 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Desmolicious wrote:
There is an ongoing thread on l-camera forum about my scratching M6. You of course have the fan bois demanding the thread be closed because it has to be user error..
With the limited data and resources on hand I have asked anyone on that site who has the new M6 to report on any issues.
Out of a total of seven 2022 M6s, four scratch film and three are ok. I know of two other owners on the site but so far they have not responded.
Yes this is a very small sampling but it is the only data point that
...Show more

If this is true and more confirmed in the near future, I wonder if Leica issues a recall similar to the M9 sensor debacle. Wouldn't be the first time to see an issue with a new camera - one reason why I always wait at least 6 months after a camera is released to purchase one (which I admittedly did last time in 2014 when I got the new Sony A7R which is still working fine - since then I only bought used cameras for multiple reasons).



Jan 04, 2023 at 01:22 PM
retrofocus
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p.15 #17 · p.15 #17 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Desmolicious wrote:
You of course have the fan bois demanding the thread be closed because it has to be user error..


Just read this thread in the Leica forum, and it is sad to see that some are not accepting any form of criticism regarding their idol brand. I remember similar discussions here on FM when first reports came out about sensor banding with the Canon 5D MkII sensor at higher ISO - which was proven fact soon after. But the first reporting the issue didn't have an easy stand in the forum community. I hope company employees read these forums because this is the first indication that something might not be as expected and action needs to be taken ASAP (if possible which is not always the case or wanted).

I wouldn't be surprised if in this M6 case that the issue was never found by Leica's QC. Because it involves putting a films inside, taking photos, and having the films developed. And also possible that M6 prototypes given out to influencers before the official release didn't have this issue.

Edited on Jan 04, 2023 at 01:58 PM · View previous versions



Jan 04, 2023 at 01:49 PM
Desmolicious
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p.15 #18 · p.15 #18 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


retrofocus wrote:
If this is true and more confirmed in the near future, I wonder if Leica issues a recall similar to the M9 sensor debacle. Wouldn't be the first time to see an issue with a new camera - one reason why I always wait at least 6 months after a camera is released to purchase one (which I admittedly did last time in 2014 when I got the new Sony A7R which is still working fine - since then I only bought used cameras for multiple reasons).


Nah, they'll never recall the M6 for bad pressure plates for a bunch of reasons.

1/ Many will not even notice because they rarely use the camera.
2/ The few that do notice may think that is part of the film experience.
3/ Many shoot color film and ICE can remove scratches
4/ Much cheaper to just fix the very few that actually make it back to them.



Jan 04, 2023 at 01:57 PM
retrofocus
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p.15 #19 · p.15 #19 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


Desmolicious wrote:
Nah, they'll never recall the M6 for bad pressure plates for a bunch of reasons.

1/ Many will not even notice because they rarely use the camera.
2/ The few that do notice may think that is part of the film experience.
3/ Many shoot color film and ICE can remove scratches
4/ Much cheaper to just fix the very few that actually make it back to them.


It's possible. If the issue is confirmed and no action is taken by Leica, then prices for old M6 cameras will skyrocket.



Jan 04, 2023 at 01:59 PM
Desmolicious
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p.15 #20 · p.15 #20 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?


retrofocus wrote:
It's possible. If the issue is confirmed and no action is taken by Leica, then prices for old M6 cameras will skyrocket.


I'm pretty sure that not all of the new ones have issues, just some. I'd still pick a new one over a 1/2 the price old one - I'll just make sure that it works properly! The new matt black paint is just gorgeous - much nicer than black chrome (which I have on other Ms), better metering, better VF. Made of brass etc.
Just need to work out the bugs on mine..




Jan 04, 2023 at 02:15 PM
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